New Orleans and Katrina - Cause and Effect

Seeker":ribphfet said:
Since this is the Cause and Effect thread I will post this pertinent explanation of the causes and effects of this tradegy. And by the way I do know what I'm talking about; I was born and raised here, and not only went through the storm, but listened to the radio almost 24 hours a day during and after the storm.

An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the Welfare State

by Robert Tracinski

< a rambling narrative which blames those on welfare for their plight and the subsequent fallout in N.O. written by a self proclaimed "Intellectual Activist" and Ayn Rand follower has been clipped from this quote>
Click to expand...

While living in the area, going through the storm and listening to a lot of radio udoubtedly gives you a perspective on the area and the storm, it's not clear to me that makes you an expert on the root causes of poverty, their relationship to the disaster and subsequent lawlessness, etc. I personally find the text by Mr. Tracinski to be an overly simplistic view of the societal goings on and am unwilling to let anyone proclaim that those on welfare are all responsible for their own fate, are simply lazy etc. As I said before the cycle of poverty is a difficult thing to break. It is especially troubling to me that there are children who through luck of their birth location and parents wind up dependent on welfare. The odds are signficantly higher that such children will need welfare in the future. Why?...

Go to a poor neighborhood in any major city and compare the educational facilities to those in any nice surburban area - tell me they are equal. Tell me that the areas in which these children are raised are safe. Tell me that these children have good role models. Tell me that these children are not exposed to violence and sometimes even death on a regular basis. Tell me that these children will not grow up with a twisted view of society, America, their fellow man and the government. Then, and only then, after these children have grown up and some (not ALL) turned into less than ideal adults, blame THEM for the outcome.

It seems to me that Mr. Tracinski is taking the easy way out - it's easy to blame those on welfare for their own plight - far easier than to examine the root causes of poverty and fix them. The latter might require that we all have to give up a little bit to help out. Maybe we should actually raise taxes to help the poor out.... Maybe we should look to other, more compassionate western societies who do not have as large a poverty problem as the richest nation in the world and model our actions after them. Maybe somehow we're all to blame... Oh, never mind, this must just be the ramblings of a left wing, liberal, over-educated, know nothing...... Let's just blame it on the victims.

Roger on the SeaDNA
 
Ken, that's not a dumb question at all. Trying to become one with nature for me is a state of mind or attitude. First I'd like to say given our life style in today's modern society it would be almost impossible to be 100% in tune with nature (environment). However, there are things we can do on a daily basis as to limit damage to the environment.
I certainly enjoy the labor saving devices modern technology provides us so you won't see me parking the truck in favor of a horse and buggy, parking the tractor in favor of cutting grass with a hand sickle, or giving up indoor plumbing. That's why we'll never be 100% in tune with the environment.
What I can do is try to limit my impact on the environment by making an effort to incorporate environmentally friendly solutions to what I do in daily activities. For example using detergents low in phosphates, requesting paper bags instead of plastic, same hold true for purchasing products in glass not plastic, keeping motor vehicles tuned as to limit NOx and SOx emissions, and my favorite do my best to conserve household water usage. Also for this to work I have to take the time to recycle.

I am certain some people will disagree, however, I am a strong proponent of nucular power. I realize there is the issue of storage of spent nucular fuel and its persistence for thousands of years, however, Yucca Mountain makes an ideal solution until such time a workable fusion reactor can be developed. Anyway... this is the way I interpret becoming on with nature. Butch
 
Thanks, Butch,

I didn't realize I was as "one with nature" as I thought. I was thinking that you might be doing things like bicycle-powering your washing machine, like that mayor in Arcata, CA was doing for a while. My wife and I do pretty much what you describe, although not a whole lot more. And I totally agree with you on the nuclear energy issue. At least for the near term, until we can advance to stuff like mass fuel cell use. The petroleum industry in Louisiana sure isn't helping the situation in New Orleans, as far as the cleanup prospectives are concerned.

Ken
 
Here's a 'heads up' for everyone just in case you missed it...

I heard on the news early this morning that people are getting emails that look like they are coming from the American Red Cross. The email asks for donations to help the families devastated by Hurricane Katrina. It looks legitimate. They use the Red Cross logo and the Secure Website logo. You are even directed to the official Red Cross website after you give them your credit card so you can see how your "donations" will benefit. These emails are coming from Brazil, China, and other countries and yes, unfortunately, some spam sites are originating from the United States.

The Red Cross went on to say they have never solicited funds through email.

Let's be careful out there. There is no end to mans inhumanity to man!

Someone else just mentioned that this was also broadcast on CNN last night.
 
We have been throwing money at intercity schools for 40 years, nothing happens. WHY?

For that matter we been throwing money at all schools and it seems it's never enough.

Jack on C Otter.
 
Does any one here know how much of our tax money has been spent, during the last 45 years on the "war on poverty" that was started in the 60's?

Has anyone noticed that the problem is worse now than 40 years ago? Or even ten years ago?

Has any one noticed that the poor today are much worse off than they were 150 years ago; that they live in much worse conditions, are subject to far more decadent and perverse living conditions than 150 years ago.

And, this is despite 45 years of inumerable programs, tens of trillions of dollars of our tax money, preferential treatment and promotions by companies and governmental agencies from local to federal.

And, still they demand more while continuing to heap ever increasing blame on those of us who have, and still are providing all of these benifits and advantages.

Who do you think is responsible for this dismal failure and the damage it has done to these people and our country?

Since it's the "poor" that seem to be having so much trouble during this crisis, and it seems, certainly will have during the next crisis of this kind, wherther natural, terrorist, or man made, it would be interesting to see others take on it.

I'd like to hear your answers or thoughts.

Law
 
New Orleans is certainly a (mostly) impoverished city, with a very high black population, but I'm still having a lot of difficulty relating that fact to the outcome of this terrible tragedy.

The vast majority of those folks are decent people, trying to eek out some kind of living under some pretty dismal circumstances.

They trusted their government (local or otherwise), because that is what has been taking care of them for lo these many years. Entitlement is all that many of these folks know, and they depended on that in this crisis. Only this time, their government miserably failed them. Mayor Nigel and Governor Blanco failed to implement a plan that had been in effect long before. In fact, the Mayor's office began to advise the populace (merely 7 weeks before Katrina) that the poor and infirm were on their own, because the city couldn't handle a city-wide evacuation. And then the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security (which does not report to the Federal government) refused to allow help to enter the city when the storm hit.

The attempt to make this a racial or poverty issue is a huge diversion from reality.

The current administration has provided more funds towards improving the levee system than the previous administration. But that's not a significant point. The point is that billions of dollars, since the mid '90's have been allocated by the federal government to the state of Louisiana for levee strengthening and improvement, yet much of that money has never gotten to the levees. It has been siphoned off for other purposes.

This dialogue needs to continue, all across the country, as long as it serves to root out problems with our emergency response system and not interfere with the immediate efforts towards recovery in the entire Gulf Coast region.

I doubled my Red Cross donation today, from what I made a few days ago. I would encourage others to jump in a second time (paying close attention to the scams that are now surfacing), since I'm sure many have donated already. The rhetoric in our Congress and in the media is appalling,
and I certainly hope it isn't detracting from folks' spirit and willingness to give.

Ken
 
There will be anecdotal stories coming out of MS for months, but here's one small snapshot of an overall problem. An old friend of mine just closed escrow on a house outside Hattisburg two weeks ago and was in North Carolina packing when the storm hit. Understandably concerned, he headed south within 36 hours and this is a bit of what he found. Bold emphasis is mine.

As we progressed down the Interstates through SC, GA, AL, and finally MS it became more and more apparent that there was little or no knowledge of conditions. Communication seemed to be at a standstill.

To facilitate preparedness, we kind of planned for our arrival along the way with the purchase of water, extra gasoline in 3 newly acquired 5 gallon containers, heavy plastic tarp material, and duct tape.

As we headed westward on US 20/59 out of Birmingham, AL the noticeable effects of Katrina slowly became apparent. Trees, ever increasingly, were blown down along the Interstate but no serious damage was noticeable until we crossed the Alabama/Mississippi state line.

One important observation was the traffic heading in our direction was primarily composed of many vehicles to be used in the recovery effort. There were "cherrypickers", logging vehicles, cranes, etc. by the hundreds. And, many large trucks from private organizations such Covenant.

Upon arrival at the Mississippi Welcome Center we noticed that there was no power and only a security guard that knew absolutely nothing about highway conditions. In fact, he told us that "all" of Mississippi was with power and the Interstate was not open to the South.

We proceeded to Meridian, MS (about 30 miles) and found that, indeed, there was power and the town was functioning to some degree. Some hurricane damage was evident but not to any great extent. This was the first sign of gasoline shortages and the lines were very long. But, there were police standing prior to entering the stations who would not allow us to get in the line because a local curfew had started at 7:00PM. We asked one of the police officers about conditions and he just shrugged and said he did not know. We asked about US 59 southbound and he said he did not think it was open.

But, provisioned with an almost full tank of gas in the truck and 15 gallons in containers we knew we could make the 100 miles to Hattiesburg and return without difficulty. In addition, there was a caravan of the recovery vehicles that kept on heading south on US 59. So, we headed southbound!

The 100 mile trip down US 59 very revealed Katrina's destruction ever increasingly. The Interstate was cluttered with trees and branches but was not unsafe because the Mississippi Highway Patrol stationed themselves in lanes that were blocked by significant debris.


On our way southbound from Meridian to Hattiesburg it became evident that even the relief vehicles (e.g., Covenant) were unable to continue due to the lack of fuel at now closed service stations.
Click to expand...


Like others on here, I've dealt with corporate lethargy as well as government lethargy over two careers and I think the response itself was immediate and widespread but severely hampered by lack of cooperation at the local levels. Particularly low and mid level authorities. There's a saying (which I can't remember exactly) that successful people rarely ask permission, preferring to take action and, worse case, apologizing later.

Those "action" folk responded and the roads showed it.

On the other hand, IMHO local officials simply balked at taking any action outside their limited scope of operation on their authority alone, and it cost the relief effort dearly. Even more so, it caused enormous delays, anger and frustration in the efforts to evacuate as well.

Even now there are internet tales of evacuees physically blocked from simply walking out of New Orleans on their own in many areas.

Law, I can't answer your post without risking forum rules, but I do know the ratio between tax receivers and tax payers is getting smaller and smaller, and very few lawmakers have the courage to address that volatile issue. There are no winners in that fight.

I look forward to reading the positive steps being taken now and in the future. Unfortunately, stories like that don't increase ratings, so it's gonna be a long and painful fall and winter. :amgry

Don
 
Yep, your right, we must not risk offending anyone by saying certain words, or expressing ourselves on certain subjects. In fact, it's a crime for people of one color to utter certain words, but it's ok for people of another color to use the same words in every day conversation.

We need to sit quietly and serenly accept announcements that the government is just to broke to fund our social security that we and our employers have worked for and contributed to for the past 50 years. That we just can't expect very much from the government in our old age because there isn't any money left for us.

But as hard as I listen, I have never heard one single announcement that welfare is in peril of being funded, quite the opposite, we should, as one poster here said, increase taxes so we can continue to fund even more programs for the "poor".

In the words of a young girl, that my wife was talking to the other day, who was expecting her third child, at 17 years of age, "the more babies I have, the more money I make". Of course we'll be asked to educate, medicate, feed, clothe, and meet all the needs of these " poor" children that we pay to bring into the world.

Really, when you get right down to the brass tacks of the matter, the welfare state, lack of political leadership, all of the inefficiencies and ineffectiveness of the government is our fault. Maybe thats why we just don't want to talk about it.

Sincerely,

Law
 
Seeker":250e9na3 said:
In the words of a young girl, that my wife was talking to the other day, who was expecting her third child, at 17 years of age, "the more babies I have, the more money I make". Of course we'll be asked to educate, medicate, feed, clothe, and meet all the needs of these " poor" children that we pay to bring into the world.
Law
Click to expand...

What really gets me is all the "free" help we give to our southern neighbors when they come up here to have their babies. What :shock: you mean we can't send them back? Hell, they are here illegally but we have to support them because the babies were born on American soil-- so they have more kids because we pay them too! Now they want us to give them a drivers license and an SSN------------------------
Sorry this is off topic, not related to what's happening in our southern states.
 
Keep an eye on Hurricane Ophelia -- she's gathering strength just off the FL coast. This season is far from over, and those Brats on the east coast from FL to the Carolinas are under threat from this storm.
 
Not a good time for more hurricane activity in the Southeast. But so far, Ophelia seems pretty mild, and according to the Navy weather forecasts, will remain so. They're predicting atmospheric pressure drops down to around 1000 millibars (normal atmospheric pressure is about 1013 millibars. A strong hurricane can get as low as about 900 millibars.)

Given the natural spin of a hurricane or tropical depression, it should continue heading Northeast. Some folks are predicting that it might do a complete loop, and head back into the East coast. I can't find any computer models that predict that, but I sure am not gonna say that it can't happen.

Let's hope and pray that the folks in the Southeast can get a break from this stuff.

Ken
 
Back
Top