New Forum Needed?

Wandering Sagebrush

Wandering Sagebrush

Free Range Human
I am wondering if we need a new forum called "Dumb Ideas".

Diana and I have a large double kayak (Necky Tofino) that we have wanted to take with us on cruises. The problem is that it is 20' long and weighs in at close to 100 pounds. I have been tossing around various ideas on how to handle the beast when on the move. I don't want to put it on top of the CDory due to the weight and awkwardness of it, and i don't want to be restricted to low speeds in order to tow the kayak.

I have been thinking about building a foam cradle that would sit on top of the port lazarette, and hold either the bow or stern of the kayak so we could get up on a plane and move. I have no idea how that would affect balance or steering, and it probably comes in as a candidate for the proposed new "Dumb Idea" forum. Has anyone out there tried anything like this? Did it work?

Kind Regards,

Steve
 
It is not unusual to tow inflatable dinghies with the stern on the transom and the bow in the water--usually this is done with the boat near center.

You would notice the drag, but a little helm correction would take care of that. However, I would be concerned how it handled with that drag in heavy weather.

100 lbs would be do-able on the 22--we have carried a 85 lb inflatable on the top of the 25 with no noticable affect--but of course that is a wider beam boat. If I was carrying a 100 lb kayak on the top of a 22, I certainly would use some roof rack.

I agree that planing speeds towing the kayak fully in the water would be difficult, and perhaps dangerous. We have towed large boats behind trawlers and sailboats, at low speeds with no problems, but there are heavy loads as you increase speed. I towed a 12 foot aluminum skiff which weighed 150 lbs at 25 knots, and it was all over the place--I would have been very unfortable in any seas at all.

Give it a try in the various places in calm water and see how it goes as you increase the speed. Just a block of foam lashed on the lazerette and a good tie down for the painter on the kayak will work well--Some 22's have put extra cleats on the inside of the gunnel to secure chairs, ice chests, etc--and that might work well for the bow painter.
 
I have towed a 16ft 60lb kayak behind my CD22. It towed well on plane but as I increased speed the bow raised up. I don't remember the exact speeds but I think about 18kts the bow was so high only the stern was touching the water and it started getting squirely.

Lashing the bow to one of the aft corners sounds okay. The concern I would have is in rough water that a wave might push the back of the kayak into the outboard. And you would want cockpit covers to keep any water out of the kayak.

I think you could carry the Tofino on top but as you said the problem is getting it up there. I have thought that a stainless rack/bar attached at the rear of the cdory at the correct height could be used to support one end of a kayak and then a block and tackle could be used to pull the kayak up on top to another rack. Just an idea.

Steve
 
As for getting a kayak up on top, we have been considering the "hully roller" attatched to the bow pulpit or a simlar attatchement for our about 60 lb kayak (bad backs preclude direct lifing). We use a similar device on our dock, which is about 4 to 6 feet off the water, and it works fine with a 14 footer, It should work as well for a 20 footer--I agree that a block and tackle or something like the Garhauer davit would work for putting the kayak on a rack.
 
take a look at Siplicity a cc-23 that came back from doing the great loop in oct it had a 16-18 ft kayak on top take a look send them a e-mail and see what they did
 
thataway":22sf0cjb said:
As for getting a kayak up on top, we have been considering the "hully roller" attatched to the bow pulpit or a simlar attatchement for our about 60 lb kayak (bad backs preclude direct lifing). We use a similar device on our dock, which is about 4 to 6 feet off the water, and it works fine with a 14 footer, It should work as well for a 20 footer--I agree that a block and tackle or something like the Garhauer davit would work for putting the kayak on a rack.
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I've always thought that it might be possible to put something like the "hully rollers" on a cross bar at the stern, and another on the roof and then use the anchor windlass to pull a heavier kyak or dinghy onto the roof. For a kyak on a boat with twins, a stern mounted rail with a hully roller in the center would probably allow one to get the kyak up between the engines. For a single engine, you'd have to offset the rollers. Might work though.
 
I carried a 20 foot double on the roof of mine without any trouble. The real trouble comes in loading (gravity helps in unloading). The best way to load is from the shore with someone carrying one end from the shore with someone on the bow guiding the other end onto the roof rack. A single is an easy one person job.
 
Maybe it would be easier to trade in the 20 footer for two smaller, very light kayaks, and halve your hoist weight to the roof, since the rear tow option is difficult, and a solution unclear; and the hoisting of the big one is awkward, at best?

Just trying to be objective...

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Hi and thanks,

Diana and I are back from the beach and then of to So Oregon to see grandchildren down there. I appreciate your ideas, and will mull them over to see what works. I have Hully Rollers, so that may be an answer.

Regards and a happy 2009 to all.

Steve
 
I carry two sea kayaks on the roof of Last Frontier a 22 Cruiser. They are 14.5' and 15.5' in length and weigh 120 lbs combined before we fill them with all of our kayak gear; paddles, skirts, floats, pumps, shoes, etc. I'd guess I have 150+ lbs on the roof and don't know it's up there.

I cut a piece of indoor/outdoor carpet to cover the roof. I sewed several nylon straps on it to secure it to the rails. The kayaks slide easily onto and off of the roof and sit directly on the carpet. The interesting thing is that I hit my all time top speed with the kayaks on the roof carrying, two 210+ lbs adults, half fuel, full water, and camping gear, 32.1 mph by GPS. I have twin 50 HP Suzukis. I've also run through some rough water with the kayaks up there and didn't notice a problem. I have a 21' triple that weighs 70-80 lbs and I'm sure I could put it on top of my 22, but it would have to sit on one side of the roof.

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Professional Hobbyist":240qvmyk said:
The interesting thing is that I hit my all time top speed with the kayaks on the roof carrying, two 210+ lbs adults, half fuel, full water, and camping gear, 32.1 mph by GPS.
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That is interesting.

I wonder if the conditions were just right, or if the boat was getting a "lift" (aerodynamic) from the kayaks?

You'd think the drag would be a much larger force to slow you down than any lift developed to help "lighten" the hull and get some of the water induced drag on the hull down.

Maybe we should get some crazy engineering type C-Brat to mount a big wing on top of a C-Dory and see what happens? :lol:

How about a swept-wing design that folds back into a cockpit shade when not traveling or in high winds, then extends outward when needed to lighten up the load?

Next development: a C-Dory 22 with a 350 hp outboard, two hydrofoils up front, and a oversized hydrofoil on the motor, allowing a three point, hull clear of the water ride at 70 mph! :mrgreen: Don't forget to reinforce the transom...

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Professional Hobbeyist,

Nice job! It's nice to see that two kayaks over 14' each could fit on top the roof of a CD22 and under the tall radar arch. We've been contemplating buying a couple of kayaks to paddle around in rather than our dinghy. And we would prefer to get the longer kayaks rather than the short squatty ones.

Questions. Are they hard to take down from the roof and put back up? I was thinking about getting a Yakima or Thule rack system with the saddles in the front and the tilt rollers on the back to help get it up and down. Is it hard to get into and out of the kayaks once they're in the water? I would think it would be easier if you entered and exited from the swim step. Is that what you do?
 
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