Mystery electrical system problem - not sure how to proceed.

Just thought I would update the thread.

When Blue Sea sent me out a replacement ACR, they also sent a call tag for me to return the one that seemed to be causing my problem. Once it got back to them, one of their techs "sawed it in half" and checked it over. He said that while it did work, it took a very long time to combine (i.e. longer than they usually do). At that time, he was trying to figure out how that would cause my fuse to blow when it combined.

I clarified that I never had a problem when it combined, but rather it was when it isolated. He couldn't immediately think of any reason it would cause that, but said he would talk it over with some other folks at Blue Sea. The new ACR seems to have solved my problem, but of course I'm still curious about the original one.

Once I had put in the new ACR and tested it with things arranged as they had been (so as not to change a bunch of variables), I made some changes to the electrical system based on new things I had learned.

1) Added the 10 amp fuse to the ground wire on the ACR, as recommended.

2) Moved the main fuse to the "downstream" side of the main battery switch*.

Once I get supplies, I'll be upsizing the helm feed wire (and then the main fuse to correspond properly) and tidying up behind the helm (not really changing anything fundamentally there, but putting in a new/larger fuse block, labeling and organizing, etc.).

*More detail on #2:
I didn't move any components physically, but changed some wiring around.

a) What was a positive bus downstream from the main battery switch is now functioning as a "power post" between the house battery and the main switch, and handles the two bilge pump leads (which want to be "hot" all the time). They each have an inline, water-resistant blade fuse. I'm not at the boat now, but IIRC, I also moved the positive wire for the battery monitor shunt there (was on the house battery positive post).

b) The Safety Hub, which is now downstream of the switch, (still) has the helm feed wire/fuse in one of the "big" AMI/Midi fuse spots - and now one of the blade fuse slots is used for the trim tab feed.

I'm not sure whether I will hook up the start isolation function on the ACR. I started to do that, and found that I needed to connect it to the brown wire in my engine ignition circuit. One end of that is in the Yamaha engine control box next to the helm seat. I opened that up but it doesn't look like a "nice" spot to add a butt connector/wire (pretty tight in there). I think the other option would be inside the engine where the wires come into it, but I'm not super keen to take that apart again (although I may) (I had it all apart when I replaced the fuel hose from the Racor into the internal Yamaha fuel filter).

In speaking with Blue Sea, they felt that with a main in the 80-90 hp range, start isolation wasn't really necessary. Anyone have any agreement/disagreement on that? Obviously I have not had any issue yet, and if I don't need it, great, one less finicky wiring job to do. OTOH, if it is necessary, then I'm going to hook it up, even if it is difficult.

Sunbeam
 
Before I upgraded the wiring system on my Arima, I was getting 'brown outs' whenever I cranked the starter on my motor. (In fact, it was because of these 'brown outs' that I decided to do such a substantial upgrade in the first place.) Anyway, as part of the wiring upgrades, I installed better batteries, increased wire sizes, dedicated the house battery to house loads, AND I installed the 'start isolation' wire from the ACR to the motor. So, while I can say that I have never had a brown out since the upgrade, I couldn't tell you if it's because of the start isolation wire or not. But, if I had to do it all over again, I'd still hook up that wire - even though getting it routed into the engine was a total pain, and it's probably not absolutely necessary.
 
Sunbeam,

If not too much bother, it would be great to see a schematic of your "new, improved" wiring. Or even a photo, we love photos.

jd
 
nimrod":qjxcj9nt said:
Sunbeam,

If not too much bother, it would be great to see a schematic of your "new, improved" wiring. Or even a photo, we love photos.

jd

I can't take a photo right now, because I'm not with the boat (withdrawal :cry: ). But I'll see if I can adapt the nice drawing that AK Angler made for me.

What I really can't WAIT to get into is tidying up the behind-helm area. Now that I understand it better, and have a plan, I think it's going to be really satisfying. (I'm not going to change the function, really, but just make it nicer.)
 
Okay, here is a very crude drawing (which actually took me longer than it did to change the wiring :oops:). Hopefully it gives the idea.

My_electrical_system_10_2013_AK_Angler_annotated_5.png

One other change I made: I had more than 7" length of #6 positive battery cable between the house battery and the switch. ABYC calls for a fuse if the cable run is over 7". I understood why, and planned to figure out how to fit in a fuse. So when I was on the phone with Blue Sea the other day, I asked them some questions about it - basically I had an idea which fuse I was going to get, and just wanted their thoughts (since they know their product line and sometimes have a better idea). Well, they said that according to ABYC, if the cable is protected (loom, conduit), then it can be longer (I forget how long they said, but it was much longer than my run). So, I got some red protective plastic loom, and covered that section of cable completely. It was already in a protected location, but now it's up to "official" snuff.
 
Here's a cleaned up version... I took the liberty to remove the ground wires, since they all go to a common buss. Let me know if you'd rather have them all showing.

Oh... and let me know if I got anything wrong...

SunbeamWiringNEWJPG_zps5b1d28c8.jpg
 
Just thought I would post a follow up here. To recap, we had an electrical "mystery" problem aboard last year on Powell. It was fairly tricky to figure out what it was (although I learned a lot while diagnosing so that was not all bad), but we eventually were pretty sure we figured out it was the practically new, Blue Sea ACR. It seemed that whenever the relay opened, it blew my main fuse (after you shut down, when the voltage gets to around 12.76, the relay opens to separate the house bank from the starting bank; this is when it would blow the fuse).

Blue Sea was fantastic about it. They could have used any number of excuses such as "this never happens," "are you sure your wiring isn't messed up," etc. But to their credit, after I explained what we had done and what was happening, they overnighted me a new one, and said I could either toss the problem one or they would pay for me to send it back so they could "saw it in half" to check it out. (We jury rigged things to finish out our trip on Powell; this was after we got back in.)

I opted for the latter and set it back to them because I was curious. They couldn't quite duplicate the problem, but did say it was very slow to combine, slower than it should be (although my problem was when it uncombined; nothing went awry when it combined).

We then put in the new ACR and forced it to "open" (uncombine) numerous times and the problem did not recur. But that was on the trailer.

Now I have been out on Powell for a week, and the problem has not happened again with the new ACR in and with "real" on-water usage. (It was pretty consistent before, by the end it was every time the ACR opened.) So I think it really was the ACR. Again, Blue Sea was exemplary in handling the problem. It's good to know how I can work around a failure (we stayed out two weeks after it failed last year), but also good to have solved the problem, and without any kind of "fight" with the company :thup
 
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