Mounting a kicker on our 25 Cruiser

L

localboy

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C Dory Year
2007
C Dory Model
25 Cruiser
Vessel Name
'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Our 25 has a 150 Suzuki. We've done two seasons w/out a kicker but I'm considering adding one this season. Not really for fishing but more for a "get home" engine. I've read numerous posts re: other experiences and have done research on the inter-webby re: possibilities.

We're considering a Tohatsu/Nissan 9.8 or a Suzuki 9.9 w/ electirc start (alternator) w/ backup manual start option. I'm leaning towards the Tohatsu/Nissan as it's lighter and less $$.

I'd like the ability to steer from the helm and plan on mounting it on the starboard side. This position just makes more sense to me; the cables/fuel line etc exit on this side & I'm moving the swim step to the uncluttered port side to make using it easier (no cables to step over). I've looked at the Garelick adjustable (model #71090) and the TH Marine Mini-Jacker. I also found this option from Panther
http://www.marinetechproducts.com/pages/FixedOutboardMotor

The Garelick unit just appears to have a lot of "stuff"/weight hanging off the transom. I like the simplicity of the non-adjustable fixed mounts however.

So my questions:
Opinions of the Panther model.
If I used the Garelick is steering off the main possible?
If I used the Mini-Jacker or Panther will the engine drag thru the water even while tilted up?
By using the fixed Mini-Jacker or Panther I assume I need a 20" shaft engine? :? :?: By using the Garelick a 15"? :? :?:

So lets hear it. Goods, bads...pros, cons. Sorry for the long post and as usual, MAHALO for the input.
 
Mark,

As you probably know, I am in favor of having a kicker. I was just wondering if a 150 Suzi would fit along side the one you have :?: :P

It would definitely "get you home"

Wish I could help you more. :oops:

Harvey (a definite proponent of twins)
SleepyC

IMGP1255.highlight.jpg


NOW BACK TO THE BUSINESS AT HAND
 
Hey Mark,
We had a kicker on the starboard side on GOYO. I used the mini jacker and a panther marine tie bar. It worked well. The only caution for you is be diligent about measuring clearances as the kicker is stationary and you need to fully rotate the main motor. 1 inch to close to main motor can cause all kinds of interference problems. We did not have any issues with drag on the kicker, it would be in the water periodically but never felt the drag. Good luck with the install. Any questions give me a call.
 
localboy":3ki71r7m said:
Our 25 has a 150 Suzuki. We've done two seasons w/out a kicker but I'm considering adding one this season. Not really for fishing but more for a "get home" engine. I've read numerous posts re: other experiences and have done research on the inter-webby re: possibilities.

We're considering a Tohatsu/Nissan 9.8 or a Suzuki 9.9 w/ electirc start (alternator) w/ backup manual start option. I'm leaning towards the Tohatsu/Nissan as it's lighter and less $$.

I'd like the ability to steer from the helm and plan on mounting it on the starboard side. This position just makes more sense to me; the cables/fuel line etc exit on this side & I'm moving the swim step to the uncluttered port side to make using it easier (no cables to step over). I've looked at the Garelick adjustable (model #71090) and the TH Marine Mini-Jacker. I also found this option from Panther
http://www.marinetechproducts.com/pages/FixedOutboardMotor

The Garelick unit just appears to have a lot of "stuff"/weight hanging off the transom. I like the simplicity of the non-adjustable fixed mounts however.

So my questions:
Opinions of the Panther model.
If I used the Garelick is steering off the main possible?
If I used the Mini-Jacker or Panther will the engine drag thru the water even while tilted up?
By using the fixed Mini-Jacker or Panther I assume I need a 20" shaft engine? :? :?: By using the Garelick a 15"? :? :?:

So lets hear it. Goods, bads...pros, cons. Sorry for the long post and as usual, MAHALO for the input.
Click to expand...

Here is a link to a 15 Tohatsu on CL yesterday

http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/boa/2159146141.html
 
localboy":j9xao0pk said:
We're considering a Tohatsu/Nissan 9.8 or a Suzuki 9.9 w/ electirc start (alternator) w/ backup manual start option. I'm leaning towards the Tohatsu/Nissan as it's lighter and less $$.
Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with the latest offerings, but I suggest that you look for a "high-thrust" model with a larger gear case and gear ratio, not a motor that's just re-propped for your speed range. It used to be that the Yamaha T8 and 9.9s were the only true high-thrust kickers, but perhaps that has changed. As Goyo mentioned, the trickiest thing is going to be getting the tie-bar geometry right so you can steer it with your main's steering.
 
I agree that a "high thrust"- (swings larger prop, and lower gear ratio in the lower unit) makes much more sense in a "kicker". The 20" length is also better, in getting the prop below the bottom of the boat, and keeping the motor out of the water. The adjustable mount allows you to bring the motor up high enough so that the lower unit does not drag. You do not want the amount of spray/splash with the lower unit of the kicker in the water at planing speeds! At lower speeds, there is not all that much drag. There should be enough room with the 150 Suzuki--it is not that much wider than the 130 Honda I had (I have the Suzukis on the Tom Cat). 9.9 HP is more than enough--6 hp will get you home nicely--if you need it. 6 HP will drive the boat at hull speed, and it takes a lot more to do faster than that. The only question is the necessity of the electric start and the alternator; vs the weight of the larger engine.
 
I highly recommend the kicker with high thrust and electric start with alternator as well as manual start.
Twice in my boating experience I had to use it. Both times anchored up 10 miles offshore in 200' of water fishing. After 5 hrs. of radios on, electric reels and wash down pump weakened the battery. The main engine just clicked when trying to start it. I manually started the kicker and let it run at about 1000 rpm's for 45 min. THe main engine popped right off.
Another time the main engine was dead and we pulled the 600' of anchor line and anchor using a ring/ball pulling with the HO kicker in 5 mph tide current. It pulled it w/o any problem.
It also pushed me back to shore at hull speed.
The main engine had a loose ground lug on the engine block.
You are only coming this way once. Buy what you need to be safe.
 
We've used the Mini Jacker to mount kickers with good success.

The newer Suzuki DF9.9A with electric start comes in at 96 pounds, so it's right in line with the other 9.9 sized motors out there. There is also a four blade prop available for these engines that works well in getting extra bite in the water.

We also use the Panther Marine Tie Bar. We like that it disconnects when not using the kicker.
 
I believe in got-me-home motors, and I'm cheap. So whilst there is such a motor on Journey On, we also use it for the dinghy. We take the motor off when we're towing the boat, so light would be good. And finally we have used the motor to get-us-home; of which the moral is: don't use plastic propellers.

Combining all of the above, here's my thoughts. First, one of the foremost criteria is light weight which Tohatsu wins. By the way, Honda loses that round. Second, dependability is important, and all the 4-strokes seem to be about the same. Third, 10 HP is going to drive that boat so one doesn't need a 15 HP motor that weighs more. And last, if you're gong to use that motor in an emergency, you may not have a good battery, as discussed above, so why get an electric start? If you need battery charging, get a small Honda/Yamaha generator which you can use while trolling and at anchor. Saves motor weight, about the same total price and adds more options. As for the high thrust, check with the dealer as to the props available for what you're buying

Journey On has a Garelick mount, which goes up to keep the motor out of the water and down to make mounting the motor easier. Whatever mount you use, make sure ALL OF the motor is out of the water.

You can see the installation in Journey On Pics, as well as the way we change the motor to the dinghy.

Good Luck

Boris
 
I put a mini jacker on our 22 and it works great. The stainless connector rod from Cabela's is only 50 bucks and has a quick disconnect on each end. The kicker is a Nissan 8, with electric start, very convienient as we use it for trolling, and it has rope start for a back up.

Rick

Mini_Jacker_3.jpg
 
journey on":lbyg22s7 said:
Whatever mount you use, make sure ALL OF the motor is out of the water.
Click to expand...

Also, if you tow your boat, you will want to use a ratcheting strap to secure the kicker. If you've ever followed a boat down the road with an unstrapped kicker on a cantilevered bracket, it's an image you won't soon forget!
 
All great info and I thank everyone for their input. Hopefully, more will chime in.

In thinking about this I have to say I think Dr. Bob & Boris are correct. Do we really
need the electric start option? Probably not and it goes against the KISS rule. So, upon looking at the available engines, I think we'll probably just get a manual start; it will cut weight & cost and make using/installing it simpler. Plus I could easily remove it while the boat is on the trailer so it doesn't "grow legs" and dissapear at 2 in the morning. :evil:

Those of you that used the mini-jacker, is a 20" leg enough?

I like that option simply because it is less moving parts vs the Garelick mount, although, I wouldn't be against using a Garelick if it keeps the engine/prop etc out of the water. I must admit, I've never really paid attention to what others have & how they're mounted. :| From speaking w/ Matt when we bought the boat he is of the opinion that a 9.9 is more than sufficient and a 15 is overkill. We'll continue to use our 2.5 Suzuki for our small inflatable; it's light, easily moved around and the dinghy can only handle a 4 horse [max] anyway. The 9.9/9.8 will be a dedicated kicker as a result.
 
eNORMous":179fbcg4 said:
I have a 150 Suz w/ 9.9 kicker on my 25 Cruiser....me likes alot.

Kicker Mounting Bracket: Garelick (Mftr) Model #71091 Heavy Duty Outboard Motor Bracket
Click to expand...

That appears to be a 15" leg. Yes? :?: How's that run through the water? Can you attach or do you use a tie-rod between it and the main? I know that model of Garelick has a higher lift range than the 71090 model; I believe it's like 15.5" vs 9.5" (assuming it's mounted parllel to the water). mmmmm....
 
That appears to be a 15" leg. Yes?
Click to expand...
Yes.
71091: H.P. Rating: Over 7 1/2 to 25 Motor Weight Not to Exceed: 175 lbs. Vertical Travel*: 15 1/2" (39cm) Mtg. Pad: Poly Mounting Board Dimensions W x H x T: 11 1/2" x 12" x 2"(29 x 30 x 5cm)
http://www.garelick.com/product.php?pnumber=71091
"In" the water it runs great - no worries. Sits "in" the water.
"Out" of the water - when not "on-plane" but rather "sitting" in the water (e.g. where it spends most of its time - not-in-use), only a very, very small [maybe 2"] dips into the water line - while "on-plane" the kicker is "just barely" out of the water. Obviously, you can mount the bracket wherever you choose (including height above water line). You can see where mine is mounted. I had a boat a long time ago, one of my first center-console-types, while living in FL. The engine went South off Anclote Island. I spent the night hanging around the island, calling Tow Boat USA. I've never been w/o a kicker. I don't use it for trolling, I start it up to make sure it runs each trip. It's my emergency/get-back-home engine.

I don't use it for trolling, so I really have no intention of cross-member to main. If I need it that bad to get back home, I'll sit in the cockpit and steer her back and be glad I got back. :lol:
 
Just as a thought in steering the boat whilest the main engine is dead and one is using the kicker: It turns out that the main acts a a rudder. The one time when we used the small motor to get us to a safe place, Judy held the kicker straight and with full throttle and I steered the boat using the wheel.

She mentioned that I got the better job, so a suggestion is: If there is a tie between the motors, you could lock the kicker throttle and steer from the cabin. However judy was happy we got somewhere safe.

I think a 20" shaft would be better, also just a suggestion since I assume you're going to get a new motor. Also, I assume the kicker will tilt forward on the Garelick bracket to be completely out of the water.

Boris
 
My 9.9 is a 20" shaft. The downward movement of the Garelick is 15 1/2". Good point on the main (engine) rudder whilst "trolling" home. :lol:
And, yes, the kicker arches forwards (or backwards) - e.g. aftwards of the transom towards the water.
 
So it is a 20" shaft. I couldn't tell from the pic, although I knew it wasn't a 25' shaft. I'm encouraged by the fact that the kicker isn't dragging thru the water mounted w/ the Garelick.
 
Correct. When I initially read your thread, I thought you were talking about the vertical height/direction of the Garelick - which is 15 1/2" (it was late - I was ready for bed). Not realizing by "leg", you meant the shaft of the kicker. :)
 
Get a Troll Master throttle for your kicker, it's very handy to have and easy to install. You can then adjust throttle from the helm. We use it when we troll.

http://www.troll-masterpro.com/

Rick
 
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