MMSI for Canadian Waters

RobMcClain

RobMcClain

Member
We have a Raymarine 54 VHF radio on our boat that has DSC capability but never had an MMSI entered (fortunately for us). I intend to get an MMSI, but before I do I would like some opinions regarding the need to go through the FTC. I know I can get the MMSI from Boat US or SeaTow, but their numbers are not for use outside U.S. waters. If we might venture into Canadian waters it sounds like I need to get the MMSI directly from the FTC by applying for both a Ship's Station License and a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit. It is my understanding that only with these can I legally operate the VHF while in Canadian waters.

I suspect almost all of our cruising will be done in US waters, both costal and lakes. Most of our costal cruising will be in CA, but we really do want to venture up to OR and WA. In fact, we hope to make the La Conner gathering if health and our calendar allows. We also hope to cruise the San Juans at some point in the next year or two, but right now that is just on our wish list. Also on our wish list is to cruise into Victoria harbor and/or Vancouver. Will we ever do it - who knows - but we're retired and it's on out list.

Based on our wish list I should apply accordingly through the FTC for the necessary license(s) and MMSI. Of course, there are 2 sets of forms and fees associated with their process, while the Boat US process is painless and free. Processing time is not really an issue for us right now.

I am curious what those of you in the Pacific Northwest have done. Is the FTC issued MMSI the best way to go? Is this something that is checked by Customs or anyone else? I like the idea of being legal and having the added safety it sounds like the FTC issued MMSI might possibly provide in the case of an emergency, but I can't help but wonder if it is worth it.

I'd appreciate a hearing what those of you up north have found... Thanks!

Rob
 
To the best of my knowledge the only thing required is a Restricted Operators Certificate(Maritime). A ships station license has not been required for quite a few years now.

Regards, Rob
 
I got my MMSI through BoatUS and do plan to cruise in Canadian waters occassionally. I just recently went through the research on this topic. What I found was:

From BoatUS (http://www.boatus.com/mmsi/MM1.htm#q12):

I am a recreational boater in the United States but regularly go into Canadian waters. Can I still use the BoatUS MMSI?

While Canada is considered “international waters” which technically calls for an FCC Ship Station License, Canada is not enforcing US regulations. Canada also has de-licensed recreational boaters. Under international treaties to which the US is a party, you are required to have an FCC license to transmit your radio in a foreign port. It is recommended for Mexico, Bahamas and the Caribbean etc. BoatUS and the GMDSS Task Force are working to have the FCC lift the rule for Canada and the Bahamas. Also, the U.S. & Canadian Coast Guard are working together to respond to any distresses in the border waters.
Click to expand...

From the official Canadian website (http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/debs-obs-quick-quick_visitor-1610.htm):

Anyone who uses a VHF radio must follow the procedures described in the VHF Radiotelephone Practices and Procedures Regulations. Currently, all VHF radio operators are required to have a Restricted Operator's Certificate (ROC) with maritime qualifications. Canada recognizes the American Certificate.
Click to expand...

I interpret all this as my MMSI is fine since Canada doesn't enforce the FCC Ship Station License. The FCC SSL is the reason for getting a different MMSI. However, the ROC w/ maritime qualifications is needed. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
 
We got our MMSI and licenses through the FCC but that was more because of my USCG Aux role than any other need. We are in Canadian waters all the time and have never had any questions raised. I think the great majority of MMSIs issued here are through BoatUS. I wouldn't worry about it.
 
I'm not 100 percent on this, but it also has something to do with the data base of your information. Something to look into, if you get your MMSI from BoatUs, then travel up to Canada, if you ever need that red button for an emergency Canada agencies will receive your distress single, but not have any of your information. I'm sure if your on the southern part of Canada, your signal will also be picked up in the US.
 
I got the following off of the Boat US FAQ site about using their MMSI in Canada:

While Canada is considered “international waters” which technically calls for an FCC Ship Station License, Canada is not enforcing US regulations. Canada also has de-licensed recreational boaters. Under international treaties to which the US is a party, you are required to have an FCC license to transmit your radio in a foreign port. It is recommended for Mexico, Bahamas and the Caribbean etc. BoatUS and the GMDSS Task Force are working to have the FCC lift the rule for Canada and the Bahamas. Also, the U.S. & Canadian Coast Guard are working together to respond to any distresses in the border waters.

BoatUS MMSI numbers are coded for recreational vessels cruising in U.S. waters only not otherwise required to be licensed; the registrations are downloaded into the U.S. Coast Guard Search & Rescue Database (MISLE) only. FCC-assigned MMSI numbers are coded for International Waters and go into the International Search & Rescue Database (ITU). In order to be accepted into the ITU database, any FCC assigned MMSI must end in zero. This is why the BoatUS MMSI number cannot be re-used when later applying for an FCC License for international cruising.
 
Barry quoted from BOATUS:

"BoatUS MMSI numbers are coded for recreational vessels cruising in U.S. waters only not otherwise required to be licensed; the registrations are downloaded into the U.S. Coast Guard Search & Rescue Database (MISLE) only. FCC-assigned MMSI numbers are coded for International Waters and go into the International Search & Rescue Database (ITU). In order to be accepted into the ITU database, any FCC assigned MMSI must end in zero. This is why the BoatUS MMSI number cannot be re-used when later applying for an FCC License for international cruising."
Click to expand...

In other words, if you are in Canadian water and push that red button, the Canadian Coast Guard will get your signal, they just won't know anything about you, and when they find you, there may be a little talk about following international waters procedures and respecting Canadian law.

I have no idea what the working relationship between the US and Canadian CG as far as an incident in boarder waters would be. There are others here on the site who would be much better at delineating that.

I just checked and my MMSI number ends in "0". I had forgotten that part. I did application at Roger's marina in Portland when I put in my Standard Horizon 2150 that includes an AIS receiver, at Roger's suggestion. It took all of 10 minutes on line, and I had the paperwork from the FCC in about 2 weeks.

have never been asked about it when in Canada, but the pw is there if I need it.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon
 
I appreciate the feedback. Since time is not an issue for us I suppose I should err on the side of maximum safety and legality and go through the FCC process. As federal forms go it's still relatively painless. Thanks folks...

Rob
 
Just thought I'd resurrect this thread with the latest information.
I was concerned about a possible upcoming trip to the North Channel and my DSC radio, when Boat US put out a msg about their MMSI numbers not working in international waters. Here is the reply I received when I questioned them:

Dear Mr. Smith,

I apologize for the delay in responding. Your message went into a mailbox for undeliverable email that is not monitored regularly.

The problem is not one that BoatU.S. can fix unfortunately, though we are actively lobbying the government to push for a change. The problem is that the International ITU database can only accept MMSI numbers ending in zero and BoatU.S. is not authorized to issue MMSI numbers ending in zero. If you are required to be licensed, but are cruising within range of the U.S. or Canadian Coast Guard, you can continue to use the BoatU.S. number in your radio rather than reprogram with the MMSI assigned by the FCC. Foreign rescue authorities just won't be able to look up your registered data in the international SAR database in the event of a distress.

If you are cruising in Canadian waters, the Canadian Coast Guard is working with the U.S. Coast Guard on any distresses.

Kristin L. Loyd
Supv, Special Programs
Technical Services
(Surveyor Referral/MMSI/Seaworthy Magazine/Captain Locator)
800.563.1536 ext. 3561 | KLoyd@BoatUS.com | BoatUS.com/MMSI



-----Original Message-----
From: Colby Smith
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 3:14 PM
To: MMSI Update
Subject: Re: BoatUS MMSI
I'm a little disappointed to see this. Most radios will only accept input of the MMSI once, then need to be sent back to the manufacturer for reset. Perhaps BoatUS can find a way to insure that numbers they have issued are inputted on the international registry if possible.
Thank you.

On 2/26/2015 9:04 AM, BoatUS MMSI wrote:
> Boatus.com <www.boatus.com/mmsi>
>
> MMSI@BoatUS.com <mailto:MMSI@BoatUS.com>
> 800-563-1536
>
> Dear BoatUS MMSI Registrant:
>
> Please take a moment to log in, review and update your MMSI Registration!
>
> Your MMSI is the nine-digit number programmed into the FIXED MOUNT VHF
> W/DSC radio on board your vessel. When the emergency button is
> activated the Coast Guard will use this information to locate and
> identify your vessel.
>
> 1. Your registration must accurately reflect your current information:
>
> • Address and phone numbers
> • Emergency contacts ashore
> • Identifying characteristics of boat (length, hull type, color or
> things that may differentiate it from vessels nearby)
>
> 2. If you have sold the boat with the programmed radio, log in and
> choose "Cancel MMSI Registration." Notify the new owner, if possible,
> to contact MMSI@BoatUS.com <mailto:mmsi@boatus.com> with the MMSI# to
> request transfer and reactivation of the account.
> 3. If you have sold the boat but retained the programmed radio for use
> in a new boat, log in, choose "Update MMSI Registration," and update
> with the new boat information.
> 4. If you have begun taking your boat into international waters, you
> must log in and choose "Cancel MMSI Registration." Once cancelled,
> contact the FCC at (877) 480-3201 to obtain the appropriate FCC
> assigned MMSI. *BoatUS MMSI registrations are NOT in the International
> ITU database. *
>
>
> To View or Edit your registration go to _BoatUS.com/MMSI_
> <www.boatus.com/mmsi> and log in. If you do not have your MMSI log in
> and password, retrieve them from the database at:
> _BoatUS.com/MMSI/Main.asp?Action=EmailPassword_
> <http://track.boatus.com/t?r=3588&c=2291&l=132&ctl=326B:B083481927D21C
> DAD04B4D97BC73F931&>
>
> BoatUS provides MMSI registration, in accordance with guidelines from
> the Federal Communications Commission and the U.S. Coast Guard, as a
> service to the boating community.
>
> With more than 500,000 members, BoatUS is the nation's leading
> advocate for recreational boaters. Join us at _BoatUS.com_
> <http://track.boatus.com/t?r=3588&c=2291&l=132&ctl=326C:B083481927D21CDAD04B4D97BC73F931&>.
>
 
I would be interested in hearing from someone who actually knows IF the US and Canadian Coast Guard(s) work together on a border waters rescue.

The FCC issued MMSI# will give Canadian CG your info because it is in the International data base. The BoatUS MMSI is not listed there and they would get the DSC signal (when you push the red button) but they would know nothing about your vessel.

Not sure I would go this route, but I have heard of folks using a PLB that is registered instead of going through the US FCC (Federal Communications Commission) not FTC (Federal Trade Commission).

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

1_10_2012_from_Canon_961.highlight.jpg
 
Pretty sure they do Harvey. I was in the USCG, but it was 25+ years ago. But I believe in the waters I will be in, my MMSI number will suffice and be available to either Guard, as Boat US mentioned. Colby
 
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