Looking for negative feedback on my helm design

[pcg]

I’ve had plenty of time to think through the helm design for my 22’ Cruiser restoration and would like to offer it up for criticism before I start modifying the fiberglass at the helm. Keep in mind that I’m an engineering nerd so there will likely be things about this design you don’t like and that’s expected. However, I’m looking for mistakes, or things I’ve overlooked. I’m new to this and I very much value the opinions of the experienced C-Dory captains here.

Referring to the photos below, the first photo shows the complete helm, but somewhere along the way it gets resized so that it's not possible to read switch labels. To remedy this I broke the drawing into upper and lower portions, and hopefully the switch labels are readable if you zoom in.

Navigation and steering aids are on top, beginning with Garmin chart plotter that sits on top of the helm, with room for an iPad to the right. Above the steering wheel, from left to right, are the autopilot display, a small display for engine gauges (can be an iPhone running an app), a simple depth gauge, and a controller for Dometic trim tabs. Below and to the right of the trim tab controller is a 12V outlet (can hold two USB ports) and the cable for the wired windlass remote.

Non-navigation items on lower left are the heater thermostat, and ON/Off switches for the propane solenoid, heater, fridge, fresh water pump, wash down pump, and a switch reserved for future use (maybe a watermaker).

Non-navigation items on lower right are the controls and breakers for the AC circuitry. Below that are breakers controlling items that need to be turned off in the event of a BMS alarm (house batteries are LiFePO4). In the event of a BMS alarm (which sounds 30 sec before the house batteries shut down) the solar panels and DC charger need to be disconnected and all devices normally powered by the house battery are switched to the start battery.

Non-navigation items to the right of the AC circuitry panels are DC on/off switches for the horn, wipers, radios/AIS, chart plotter, radar, autopilot, trim tabs, nav lights, bow light, windlass, security alarm, and bilge pumps.

Also, I know many of you don't like propane, or prefer trim tabs other than Dometic, or think a BMS alarm is overkill, or whatever. That's fine, but that's water under the bridge and not what this post is about. I'm interested in feedback on my helm design.

I know this is a LOT to ask and most of you are probably rolling your eyes at my request, but for those of you with time on your hands who like to find something wrong with someone else’s design, please fire away. I thrive on negative feedback!

What would you change? What have I missed? Thank you!

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[ssobol]

Ok, I'll go first.

The depth can be displayed on the chartplotter (usually in a number of different ways). Unless you have two depth finding systems, the information on both displays will be the same. IMO, having the chart and the depth in a single view is preferred.

Nowadays most engines provide data to the NMEA bus. This allows engine info to be displayed on the chartplotter. You can have a separate page with all the info, or you can overlay particular engine parameters on other pages (as many as you want). BTW, how is the iPhone going to get the engine info?

From the switch set up, it looks like you can't run both left and right wipers at the same time. I found that having a momentary switch that cycles the wiper as long as the switch is depressed (or can cycle once) to be much more handy than the main wiper switches. In my case, there is a momentary double pole switch that can be reached while still holding the wheel (just stretch a finger out).

You should have a auto position for the bilge pump as well as manual on.

My boat has a power switch for the NMEA 2000 bus. This is handy when you want to save power and you switch the bus off when starting with low battery power (bus voltage sag). This can hard reset the bus equipment and lose the settings, having the bus off before starting prevents this.

The Garmin unit has a power switch right on the front bezel. A separate switch is redundant. Realize that the chartplotter is a computer and shutting off the power at the panel switch will not allow it to do an orderly shutdown. You will still need to use the switch on the bezel to operate the unit.

Personally I want only stuff related to driving/navigating the boat on the helm. The switches for house stuff and battery control are located elsewhere. In the diagrams presented I would put the whole panel shown under the heater thermostat somewhere else. If the temp sensor is located in the heater thermostat unit and is not just the control, I would put it somewhere else. Same goes for the AC circuits panel. That's a panel that is not operated very frequently when driving the boat.

Tall switch panels mean that the lower switches start getting pretty low on the helm. This make them hard to see and the legends difficult to read. You might want to split the large panel on the right side into two smaller ones so the switches don't get too low. Also, some sort of panel and/or legend lighting is in order. Also, if you have longer legs you may find that some of the lower down switches can be accidently actuated by your knees.

If the 12V thing is a plug, consider what things you will be plugging in there and where their wires will go. There are better places for a 12v outlet unless it is used for something needed when driving the boat. If you expect to have some USB device that you will use regularly when operating the boat I would put in a dedicated power lead for it run to wherever that device will be mounted. If you need USB power for charging a phone, put the outlet on the other side boat. There is a nice shelf for leaving things to charge.

If the BMS system will cause the house loads to drop (perhaps unexpectedly) I would have the nav essential equipment powered from the engine electrical bus all the time. Nothing like cruising along and suddenly everything does dark. While you expect the BMS alarm to give you some notice, in some situations it may not and just kill the power.

 

[thataway]

The review by ssobol makes many extremely important points.



The photo of the helm is extremely important, unless somehow you are going to radically revise the helm area, not just fill up holes, and cut new ones.

Over all the biggest mistake I see is putting crucial controls on the outboard (starboard) side of the helm, and behind the helm. They are not easily reached in either an emergency when not running the boat, or even for routine matters.

One might consider a muliplex system for a modern boat--I designed one and built one for the 38' sailboat we built in 1979-81. So consider that type of control as a possibility

The diagram switch is not of the best resolution--Not sure if that was the method of copy or the lower resolution of using the "photo" section to host it--if it was a bit better then we could more easily render thoughts.

The AC panel does not belong behind the helm--put it some place else. Same with the BMS (Please explain your BMS or cite a web site). It looks as if you have a very high amperage switch on the boat control panel, behind the wheel. You want to keep the heavy wiring (2/0?) as sort as possible--near the batteries. Or use a multiplex or remote solution.

The propane solenoid belongs in a galley panel, same for all of the various water switches. Water maker? 12 volt? What brand and where are you going to mount it. The switch for it, needs to be near the water maker, and any remotes you have for it--no need near the helm. Where are you putting the monitor for the LiFePO4 batteries? Again near the galley. In my last 25 I put these outboard of the galley--or could be on the face above the cabinets--just not as conveint to monitor

Please tell us about your BMS In several Li FePO4 battery systems I have built I only use a Victron or similar monitor system, and no external BMS. An internet search did not reveal a BMS similar to what you have pictured. In any case you do not want the heavy battery cables going to the console, and you want that switch to be easy to access--again not hidden behind the wheel.

The windless power breaker needs to be 60 or so amps, not a switch on the console.

What is your security system, and why a switch on the dash with other dash electronics?

That is my review for starters.

 

[pcg]

Oh man - such good feedback! I'll address ssobol's comment first. Will get to Bob's hopefully tonight. I'm also going to try to figure out another way to post the helm drawing. The C-Brats website resizes the jpeg, causing small details to blur.

The depth can be displayed on the chartplotter (usually in a number of different ways). Unless you have two depth finding systems, the information on both displays will be the same. IMO, having the chart and the depth in a single view is preferred.

There are three reasons I like having the little Hawkeye depth display – 1) As much as possible I’d like to reserve the chartplotter for maps overlayed with radar info, and at times splitting the screen with sideview or forward view sonar. 2) The simple little Hawkeye display and its own transducer provide redundancy for critical information. 3) It’s a convenient way to quickly view depth without taking up much room.

Nowadays most engines provide data to the NMEA bus. This allows engine info to be displayed on the chartplotter. You can have a separate page with all the info, or you can overlay particular engine parameters on other pages (as many as you want). BTW, how is the iPhone going to get the engine info?

Again, I’m trying to reserve the chartplotter for maps and sonar. I’d like to have the engine data always at hand though so that means another means of display – either traditional gauges or a digital display. A digital display gives more info and takes up less room. I’m planning on powering the boat with a 115hp Mercury. The iPhone can get data directly from the Mercury outboard using the Mercury VesselView app and a VesselVIew Link box, and that is my plan at this time. I could also install a Mercury Smartcraft Gateway which would allow me to get NMEA data from the outboard onto the boat's NMEA bus, and thus to the chartplotter. In that case I could also install a Signal K Node Server (raspberry pi) and display any NMEA data on the iPhone using the WilhelmSk app. That’s more complexity though, and the raspberry pi just adds to the power load.

From the switch set up, it looks like you can't run both left and right wipers at the same time. I found that having a momentary switch that cycles the wiper as long as the switch is depressed (or can cycle once) to be much more handy than the main wiper switches. In my case, there is a momentary double pole switch that can be reached while still holding the wheel (just stretch a finger out).

Excellent points! Thank you, I will address this.

You should have a auto position for the bilge pump as well as manual on.

Yes, it’s there. It just doesn’t show on the colored switch in the drawing.

My boat has a power switch for the NMEA 2000 bus. This is handy when you want to save power and you switch the bus off when starting with low battery power (bus voltage sag).

Another good point! I will add this.

The Garmin unit has a power switch right on the front bezel. A separate switch is redundant.

Thank you! I’ll eliminate that switch if that’s the case.

Personally I want only stuff related to driving/navigating the boat on the helm.

I agree that is ideal, but I have nowhere else to put them. I’ve put all the nav stuff on top, and horn and wiper controls at top of the right panel.

some sort of panel and/or legend lighting is in order.

Switches are illuminated, but legends are not. I’ll change that.

if you have longer legs you may find that some of the lower down switches can be accidently actuated by your knees.

Good point. I’ll try to address this.

If the 12V thing is a plug…There are better places for a 12v outlet unless it is used for something needed when driving the boat.

I will have 12V outlets (which can hold two USB ports) all over the cabin, including the shelf on top of the helm. But yeah, I should probably remove that one.

If the BMS system will cause the house loads to drop (perhaps unexpectedly) I would have the nav essential equipment powered from the engine electrical bus all the time.

The problem with that is that I can foresee times when I want to run some of the nav equipment while at anchor with the engine off and I don’t want any load on the start battery when the outboard is not running.

Thank you so much ssobol!

 

[pcg]

Here's a link to a hi-res jpeg drawing of my helm design. If you're on a desktop you can use the little "+" icon in the upper right to zoom in. If you're on a cell phone just zoom with your fingers...
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/o1qdsn4h ... zb3to&dl=0

 

[pcg]

Over all the biggest mistake I see is putting crucial controls on the outboard (starboard) side of the helm, and behind the helm.

What are you referring to as crucial controls. Isn’t the switch panel in the photo the standard location used for all C-Dory Cruisers? I will be redesigning (fiberglass work) the helm area, but I’m planning on putting critical switches (horn, wipers) in the same general area.

The diagram switch is not of the best resolution

Yes, I apologize for that. I posted a link to a hi-res jpeg above. C-Brats website kills the resolution on large jpegs.

The AC panel does not belong behind the helm--put it some place else.

I agree that it’s not necessary to have at the helm, but I don’t have another place to put it. Also, I see some merit in having everything needed to operate the boat conveniently accessible from one location. Ssobol makes a good point though. It is susceptible to knee bumps in its current location, so I'm scratching my head over this.

Please explain your BMS or cite a web site.

That’s not the BMS. Those are controls to be used in response to a BMS alarm and subsequent battery shutdown. Sorry I wasn’t clear on that. Depending on which battery I use, the BMS is internal to the house batteries, or external (with the exception of cell balancing) if Victron batteries are used. The Victron BMS delivers an alarm 30 sec before the BMS shuts down the batteries. The area at that helm is strictly to address a BMS alarm. It is laid out and labeled with the following steps – 1) Turn off alarm, 2) Turn off solar panels, 3) Turn off DC charger, and 4) Redirect loads to starter battery. The starter battery is in the aft cabin and the house batteries are underneath the port berth, so the high current switch (which carries house loads only) is in between the two. Switch wiring will be 2 AWG.

The propane solenoid belongs in a galley panel, same for all of the various water switches.

I’ll move them if I can. The propane solenoid switch will be used for the heater as well, so I thought it made sense to have it next to the heater controls.

Water maker? 12 volt? What brand and where are you going to mount it.

This is a “yet to be determined” possible future addition, probably mounted somewhere in the cockpit. I’m currently looking at this… https://seawaterpro.com/products/micro-water-maker

The switch for it, needs to be near the water maker, and any remotes you have for it--no need near the helm.

I’d like to keep all switches inside out of the weather, if possible.

Where are you putting the monitor for the LiFePO4 batteries?

That information comes from the Victron Cerbo GX and can be displayed on the chartplotter.

The windless power breaker needs to be 60 or so amps, not a switch on the console.

The switch on the console is a manual control switch, not the breaker. The breaker is situated at the starter battery.

What is your security system, and why a switch on the dash with other dash electronics?

My security system is yet to be determined, but yes, the switch should probably be somewhere out of sight. I’ll change that.

Thank you Bob! This is all very helpful!

 

[ssobol]

Bob makes a good point about running heavy cables from the batteries to the battery switch on the helm, unless the battery switch shown just remotely controls contactors located near the batteries.

FWIW my AC panel is mounted on the forward face of the galley cabinet behind the helm seat. The only time this panel is used is connecting/disconnecting to shore power. It is not used when driving the boat and is located in an out of the way location. Most of the AC stuff is mounted on the front bulkhead on the inside of the galley cabinet.

My battery switch is located in the battery compartment. Again, this is something not normally used when driving the boat.

I located a panel for the outside convenience lighting on the face of the galley cabinet near the main cabin door. Much more practical than on the helm.

Yes, the standard helm switch panel on the 22s is not the best design. Some boats have one or more horizontal rows of switches. I would consider changing mine if it didn't mean having to fill a big hole in the helm.

 

[pcg]

Bob makes a good point about running heavy cables from the batteries to the battery switch on the helm, unless the battery switch shown just remotely controls contactors located near the batteries... My battery switch is located in the battery compartment. Again, this is something not normally used when driving the boat.

This switch needs to be at the helm in the event of a LiFePO4 house battery shutdown. It switches the house loads between the house battery and the start battery. The cables coming from the batteries to this switch are AWG 2 and fused for 60A. This is far more capacity than is typically needed for house DC loads.

the standard helm switch panel on the 22s is not the best design.

What switches do you consider critical, that would be better placed somewhere other than where they come from the factory. Horn? Wipers?

From the switch set up, it looks like you can't run both left and right wipers at the same time. I found that having a momentary switch that cycles the wiper as long as the switch is depressed (or can cycle once) to be much more handy than the main wiper switches.

What I currently have is a single Momentary/Off/On switch that powers both wipers at the same time. The left side is momentary and the right side is On. Do you think this is adequate, or should I have a separate Momentary/Off/On for each side?

I located a panel for the outside convenience lighting on the face of the galley cabinet near the main cabin door. Much more practical than on the helm.

I will have that too. The only lighting (other than nav) switch at the helm is a bow flood light.

 

[ssobol]

...

the standard helm switch panel on the 22s is not the best design.

What switches do you consider critical, that would be better placed somewhere other than where they come from the factory. Horn? Wipers?

From the switch set up, it looks like you can't run both left and right wipers at the same time. I found that having a momentary switch that cycles the wiper as long as the switch is depressed (or can cycle once) to be much more handy than the main wiper switches.

What I currently have is a single Momentary/Off/On switch that powers both wipers at the same time. The left side is momentary and the right side is On. Do you think this is adequate, or should I have a separate Momentary/Off/On for each side?
...

RE the stock panel layout: the panel has poor contrast, no lighting, and is too long putting some switches too low IMO. In low light you have operate the switches by feel and hope you get the correct one. Newer boats have different operating switch placement.

RE the wiper switch. I have the main wipers switches and a double throw momentary switch mounted near the wheel. Pressing this switch to the left or right operates the associated wiper motor. A momentary press will cycle the wiper once. The wiper will cycle as long as the switched is pressed. For continuous operating the original switches are used.

 

[thataway]

Where does the inverter sit in all of this? Location? What is the size of the inverter? What are you running off the inverter? Is this switch to shut off the output of the LIFePO4 batteries, or is it for inflow of current from the start battery? This is key--it will be most likely more than 60 amps at full load. You are marginal with #2AGW wire for 60 amps--I figure more like 40 feet from start battery to your switch. Did you measure this? Your AGW #2 is OK for 30 feet (round trip). You want shut off high amperage switch for both the input to the house batteries from the start battery. You also want high amperage shut off for the Li house batteries.

Leave the DC switches where they are, but bring the AC controls out of the console. They do not belong in the wiring which you will put in the back of the console. The AC circuit will be unlikely to be used when you are running.
Where are the monitor gauges for the Li batteries? The I phone is OK, but you want something like the Victron 712 monitor also where it is easily read--and the inverter switches near by.

Also we put USB chargers (today probably want USB C charging ports) near the table, which is where we use computers, as well as at the helm where you may be using the I phone and I pad. (Or other phone/tablets).

Don't put items which are just as likely to be used at anchor or marina, where they are difficult to get to. (AC, and Inverter) The Starboard side of the helm is harder to access.

Are you running the Windlass power leads separate from the House battery? They should be wired directly to the start battery, and engine running when the windless is used.

I have not used Victron batteries. But most BMS shut the battery off when the fault occurs not 30 seconds later. The 30 second delay could be the time which critical temps, or overload could ruin the battery or start a fire....!!

In my boats I like to be able to put the bow light, cockpit lights, fore deck lights on from the bunk. I also put red LED as night light--both in the cabin and in the cockpit also accessible from the bunk. If you have to get up quickly at night, lets say the anchor is dragging--you want some lights to see by now...So the cabin and cockpit are at the head of a series of auxiliary light switches which can be reached from the bunk. See photo.

Here is a photo of the console just above the bunk level, with switches. Right above those is the emergency shut off for the auto pilot. There are three other cig. lighter plugs all switched here.: one is on the electronics shelf over the forward part of the cabin, for Sirius radio etc. One is inside the bunk area to run a "Vantastic Fan" to push air thru the forward hatch when open. The 3rd is by the "shelf over the port side of the cabin--along with USB charging ports. It is used to recharge the Ryobi batteries we use for a portable fan, plus some other appliances and the Torqueedo battery.



You may well want the thermostat and power switch for the heater here. So you can adjust it from the bunk. What type of propane heater are you using? (That goes to where you want to put the several sensors and automatic solenoid cutoff to be located.) I used propane only for stove with oven (force 10). I had the propane shut off switch near the stove in the galley. I had sensors behind the stove, (near where connectors were "hidden". An other sniffer in the bilge near where the propane lines ran. (but out of an area where water could get to the sensor.)

 

[pcg]

Here's a link to a pdf (jpeg was too large) of my power schematic. It shows all proposed electrical wiring on the boat except individual fused DC circuits. If you're on a desktop you can use the little "+" icon in the upper right to zoom in. If you're on a cell phone just zoom with your fingers... https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9nbt9sjr ... 7drhn&dl=0

 

[pcg]

Where does the inverter sit in all of this? Location? What is the size of the inverter? What are you running off the inverter?

The small 1000W inverter is located under the starboard berth. Nothing critical will be powered by the inverter. It’s there primarily as a convenience for any portable battery chargers that require 120VAC, as well as a small hair dryer that can be used to dry things out. Thus it is not switched over to the start battery in the case of a BMS alarm.

Is this switch to shut off the output of the LIFePO4 batteries

No, there is a separate battery shut-off switch for both the house battery and the starter battery. This switch only serves to switch DC loads (minus the inverter) from the house battery to the start battery.

You are marginal with #2AGW wire for 60 amps--I figure more like 40 feet from start battery to your switch. Did you measure this?

Yes. The start battery is on the floor in the aft starboard cabin. Round trip distance to the switch via a routed cable is 22’. However, almost half of this distance is AWG 1, the remaining being AWG 2. AWG 1 is run from the start battery to a connection point at a 60A fuse under the starboard berth. The output of this fuse travels 2’ via AWG 6 to the DC-DC converter. From this connection point to the BMS alarm switch a 3’ length of AWG 2 is run. I know this is confusing. See the power schematic I’ve posted above.

Leave the DC switches where they are, but bring the AC controls out of the console.

You’ve talked me into it. I’ll find a way!

Where are the monitor gauges for the Li batteries?

There is no dedicated hard gauge for the house battery. In my camper I have a Victron 712 for the Li battery, but I never look at it. Instead I use my iPhone which communicates with the 712 and the iPhone app gives me much more information than the hard gauge. On the C-Dory, a Victron Cerbo GX monitors the charging state of house and start batteries, as well as current flow to all chargers (shore, solar, DC-DC) and DC loads. This information is viewable on both the chartplotter and any iPhone when desired.

Also we put USB chargers (today probably want USB C charging ports) near the table, which is where we use computers, as well as at the helm where you may be using the I phone and I pad. (Or other phone/tablets).

I’m planning on putting 12V outlets with USB adapters at those locations. This is to accommodate future obsolescence of USB connectors, of which there are now seven different form factors. I insert adapters for the original USB-A connectors in the 12V outlets in my truck and camper, for most applications. However, I also have a USB-microB adapter for my Garmin inReach.

Are you running the Windlass power leads separate from the House battery? They should be wired directly to the start battery, and engine running when the windless is used.

Yes.

I have not used Victron batteries. But most BMS shut the battery off when the fault occurs not 30 seconds later. The 30 second delay could be the time which critical temps, or overload could ruin the battery or start a fire....!!

I’m sure Victron BMS does this also. I think the warning from Victron Smart batteries is used for gradual faults, such as low charge state. In any event, I want a means to immediately switch critical DC loads to the start battery if the house battery shuts down. There is a good discussion regarding BMS alarms in the comments section of this article… https://panbo.com/abyc-ratifies-e-13-th ... -standard/

In my boats I like to be able to put the bow light, cockpit lights, fore deck lights on from the bunk. I also put red LED as night light--both in the cabin and in the cockpit also accessible from the bunk. If you have to get up quickly at night, lets say the anchor is dragging--you want some lights to see by now...So the cabin and cockpit are at the head of a series of auxiliary light switches which can be reached from the bunk.

Great suggestions. I will incorporate.

What type of propane heater are you using?

Propex HS2800

I had sensors behind the stove…

I will have sensors at the two locations in the cabin where there are propane connections – at the stove and at the heater.

Wow! This has been extremely helpful! Thank you so much for your valuable suggestions. I know it took a lot of time and thought and it's very much appreciated. Most suggestions will be easy to incorporate. It will take some head scratching and redesign of where I’ve placed things in the cabin to relocate the AC panel, but I will do it!

 

[pcg]

Well I thought it would be helpful to post a schematic of my power circuitry, but there are a couple problems with this. The jpeg my CAD system creates gets re-sized by this website, making it too blurry to read. My workaround was to make a pdf file, which is much smaller, but this website cannot display a pdf file. So my next workaround was to post it to Dropbox and post the link here. Problem with that is whenever I revise the pdf and update it on Dropbox, the Dropbox URL changes, and so my post I made becomes obsolete because the URL no longer exists. Oh well.. for now I will keep posting an update whenever a change is made. I think I'm close to being done so hopefully not much more will change. Here's where I am now...
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/cc0ol1b6 ... xu5xq&dl=0

 

[thataway]

Absolutely beautiful drawing. Only an engineer in America would do work to that level. (My father was an EE, and just the other day I was looking at my collection of templates, symbols, and figures, (along with the Duplex Deca Trig slide rules used.. His was used to calculate all of the electrical design of most of the Western Grid, and a number of power stations including the Nuclear. at San Clemente. (Yes I still know how to use a slide rule.). Included in the collection are a few bottles of India Ink, and various pens and other instruments.

To the point, I still cannot read some of the labels, so I don't know exactly what Victron components you are using. (You might just list them here._. I know that you probably cannot get the resolution on that drawing to where it is fully readable on the computer. I cannot make any comments, except well done, until I can work thru the diagram, and perhaps know some distances.

I am trying to figure any battery chargers 120 V AC that you would run off an inverter when underway--except perhaps a laptop. I have a setup which runs my MacBook Pro off 12 volts. (I have to keep modifying the cords to keep up with the power interfaces. Just recently I picked up a MBPro with the M3 apple chips, and it is back to another Mag Mount--in Apple style it is not retrofitted with the older Mag Mount power supply! (my power supply ran the old mag mount laptops.)

I do like to keep size of wiring consistent as it runs along, without changing it up or down.

Any "small" or not is going to really pull the juice out of the batteries. Maybe you have a smaller/than my "small" which still runs in the 1000 watt arena. Who needs a hair dryer, unless they are hooked up to mains power? Even Marie has never asked for that! (Now on our big cruising boats, that was adifferent story, but we had 8 KW diesel generators for her hair dryers!

 

[Robert H. Wilkinson]

Who needs a hair dryer, unless they are hooked up to mains power?

Not me - not enough hair left to dry - but the way I read pcg's comment was that it could be used to "dry things out" - perhaps even electronic equipment. Most of us small boat owners have experienced things getting wet at inopportune times - at anchor or on a cruise.

Here's to keeping the dry side dry and the wet side wet in the new boating season.

Happy New Year all

Rob

 

[pcg]

Thank you for the kind words Bob. I still have my trusty K&E slide rule (kids today don't know what they're missing), but it never saw work anywhere near like what you father did with his. That's impressive!

...I still cannot read some of the labels

You should be able to zoom in for better detail. If viewing on a desktop, there should be a tiny little icon (+ sign inside a circle) at upper right of the Dropbox site. If viewing on a mobile device just zoom in with fingers.

The power design is still fluid and there is one area in particular where I have some concern and could benefit with some knowledge I don't have.
Victron makes 18A and 30A DC-DC converters. I'm showing the 30A model in the schematic. It needs to draw about 35A to deliver a full 30A to the LiFePO4 battery. I'm considering powering with a Mercury 115hp outboard which is specified to deliver 35A (Honda BF90 can deliver 45A). I've been told that both of these motors have rectifier/regulators, and not true alternators, and that these devices can overheat and be damaged if they are asked to provide too much current. The Merc rectifier is water cooled, not sure about the Honda. Do you think there is a danger of damaging the Merc rectifier if used with the Victron 30A DC-DC converter? Would it be safer to stick with the 18A model. If so, this might be a game changer for me in deciding which outboard to use. Obviously I'd like the higher capacity DC-DC converter as I plan on boondocking and we get lots of cloudy days in the PNW so there will be days when solar won't be of much use.

 

[pcg]

Who needs a hair dryer, unless they are hooked up to mains power?

it could be used to "dry things out" - perhaps even electronic equipment.

Yes, and cameras too. We get lots of cold rainy days in the PNW and when camera lenses get cold they fog up. Lots of uses for a little 800W hair dryer.

I am trying to figure any battery chargers 120 V AC that you would run off an inverter when underway--except perhaps a laptop.

Yes, laptops, and also chargers for cordless tool batteries.

 

[thataway]

Most of us small boat owners have experienced things getting wet at inopportune times - at anchor or on a cruise.

Hmm, the only time I can think of with the "moisture inside the boat" being an issue is mostly when we are aboard and condensation of our exhaled water-but there can be somewhat less with temperature changes. I don't see drying out except the windows. I use the Absorb Chamois for that....The last 25 did have one of the squirrel cage bower heater defroster by the windshield / forward window in front of the helm--but I never used it.

Maybe I just accept high humidy, living on the waterfront in Florida.

prg--Thanks for the clue-I had used pinch/zoom with the fingers, which is my first reflex on the Mac Book. That was what made it bigger but still fuzzy. Just now I used the Command. "+" and Command "-" which did bring the drawing In prime resolution--and after that I saw the zoom/enlarge modifiers in the PDF header. Now I'll look more carefully at the drawing, when I have time. It is truly a work of art. (especially to a guy who has never mastered "mechanical drawing")

I used the 18 amp Victron Orion on my setup for the single 100 amp battery portable Li FEPO4 battery we use on the SUVs and RV. For the Honda 150 O B I used a Sterling, which was max 30 amps, and usually ran it at that. I did have temp sense on the LiFePO4 and the start battery, The sterling will allow you to modify downward the amount put out. I had a separate FLA "house bank" of two group 27's. the Li were for the freezer and refrigerator plus the 2000 watt inverter.

However the full output ( The Honda 150 hp (up to 2008) shop manual shows the flywheel magnets and rectifier.) . Even in the RV which has a 200 amp heavy duty alternator, they suggest to on 20 min, off 20 min to avoid overheating, Either can be damaged by running at full output I use the term "Alternator" loosely because many do not understand the flywheel power generation system. I believe the rectifier to be air cooled.

 

[Peter & Judy]

Who needs a hair dryer, unless they are hooked up to mains power?

I have been following this post with interest and most of the discussion was by people that have way more knowledge than I do. The hairdryer comment caught my attention and I just thought that I would add my 2 cents to the discussion.

I live in bone dry Alberta, but do most of my boating on the Wet (west) Coast. When boating I often attract bad weather and sitting out storms is normal for me. The interior of the boat gets really moist and being a prairie boy I found that hard to handle. So I embarked on a retrofit of my boat to help reduce this. The biggest single addition has been the Wabatso Heater for moisture management. The nice thing with this unit is that it has a forced air heat that drys the cabin nicely, but can also be used to dry wet sock, cold feet and portable electronics. There are lots of good post here on C-Brats on installing these. When redoing your electronics, this would also be a good time to install a heater as there is quite a bit of wiring for the heater to be installed.

A final note about rewiring a boat. I plan to do this if I have to do it again. Get yourself a small monkey and train him to do it for you, pulling wire and crimping connections in the tight spaces of a boat is difficult enough. But, for a trained monkey it would be much easier. :lol:

 

[ssobol]

... Get yourself a small monkey and train him to do it for you, pulling wire and crimping connections in the tight spaces of a boat is difficult enough. But, for a trained monkey it would be much easier. :lol:

I tried this. The problem with small monkeys is that they don't have the hand size or grip strength needed for good crimps. I had to redo all of mine.

A monkey large enough for good crimps is nothing you want to be around when it gets cranky.