You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
List to Starboard
- Thread starter ZoeB
- Start date
Cool, glad you solved the mystery! And... no more list :thup
I've just recently removed about 20 of the rub rail fasteners on my boat. Don't know if yours is the same, but on my 22 the rail is riveted with aluminum rivets, and they corroded amidships where the low point of the rail is, then the heads just popped off (and hence the rail gapped away from the boat in that area on both sides).
I removed the black rubber trim piece for a distance on each side, and most of the affected rivet caps were just lying in the rail base. On the inside, each rivet is terminated in a "blob" of something like 5200 that is gelcoated over. After reading a tutorial here by someone else who did a rubrail repair, I used a punch to firmly tap the rivets from outside the boat toward the inside, then took a cutter that is normally used for cutting fabric prior to setting grommets and held it over the (now visible) "pimple" in the 5200 on the inside. Twisting it caused a neat circle of the gelcoat/5200 to come off and then I could just pull the rivet shank into the boat, leaving a clear hole where the original failed rivet had been.
I decided to use machine screws to re-fasten the rail, and then debated between aluminum (similar metal so so issues that way) or stainless (stronger but dissimilar metal). I haven't done this part yet, but think I'm probably going to go with the stainless with insulating washers. I may cut a few small slits in the bottom of the rail so water does not pool there and "soak" the metals. I'll probably pump some 3M 4000 (from a caulk gun) into the holes from the outside prior to fastening. Some of that should ooze into the area behind the rail as well as under/around the fastener. Then I'll put the rubber strip back over the outside. (I don't like to caulk around the edges of things, so won't caulk along the outside of the rail.) On the inside I'll use acorn nuts where they will show, and regular nuts where they won't (most of mine are under the galley counter).
Nice dramatic "un-listing" after you drained your flotation foam!
Sunbeam
I've just recently removed about 20 of the rub rail fasteners on my boat. Don't know if yours is the same, but on my 22 the rail is riveted with aluminum rivets, and they corroded amidships where the low point of the rail is, then the heads just popped off (and hence the rail gapped away from the boat in that area on both sides).
I removed the black rubber trim piece for a distance on each side, and most of the affected rivet caps were just lying in the rail base. On the inside, each rivet is terminated in a "blob" of something like 5200 that is gelcoated over. After reading a tutorial here by someone else who did a rubrail repair, I used a punch to firmly tap the rivets from outside the boat toward the inside, then took a cutter that is normally used for cutting fabric prior to setting grommets and held it over the (now visible) "pimple" in the 5200 on the inside. Twisting it caused a neat circle of the gelcoat/5200 to come off and then I could just pull the rivet shank into the boat, leaving a clear hole where the original failed rivet had been.
I decided to use machine screws to re-fasten the rail, and then debated between aluminum (similar metal so so issues that way) or stainless (stronger but dissimilar metal). I haven't done this part yet, but think I'm probably going to go with the stainless with insulating washers. I may cut a few small slits in the bottom of the rail so water does not pool there and "soak" the metals. I'll probably pump some 3M 4000 (from a caulk gun) into the holes from the outside prior to fastening. Some of that should ooze into the area behind the rail as well as under/around the fastener. Then I'll put the rubber strip back over the outside. (I don't like to caulk around the edges of things, so won't caulk along the outside of the rail.) On the inside I'll use acorn nuts where they will show, and regular nuts where they won't (most of mine are under the galley counter).
Nice dramatic "un-listing" after you drained your flotation foam!
Sunbeam
Thanks everyone for being so helpful. Thanks Sea Wolf for putting the pictures directly into the forum, I need to figure that out.
My rivets had corroded and the rub rail was bowed on the starboard side. I fixed it with stainless screws and used backing on the inside were possible. Will take pictures when I go back in to seal the rub rail leak. I did not think much of this at the time but should have taken pictures.
Going to check on the backing for the screw on the swim step handle to see where that running rust is coming from.
Thanks again.
My rivets had corroded and the rub rail was bowed on the starboard side. I fixed it with stainless screws and used backing on the inside were possible. Will take pictures when I go back in to seal the rub rail leak. I did not think much of this at the time but should have taken pictures.
Going to check on the backing for the screw on the swim step handle to see where that running rust is coming from.
Thanks again.
ZoeB":1oemq7ia said:Going to check on the backing for the screw on the swim step handle to see where that running rust is coming from.
If it is coming from the stainless fastener, and you go to buy new ones, you might try to get grade 316 stainless (instead of the more common 304). It will be slightly less prone to rusting/corrosion than 304 is. I get my 316 fasteners from McMaster-Carr (online order - fast and painless). The only ones they don't tend to carry in 316 are oval-head machine screws.
There are also products that supposedly re-passivate the stainless (which helps to keep it from rusting), such as Wichinox and Spotless Stainless. If I remember correctly I got my Spotless Stainless from the folks at Scan Marine (who sell the Wallas stoves many of us have).
nordicstallion
New member
Ah yes, that looks much better! On my boat there is no way to access the inside of that space where your swim step bolt is located. That space is one of the spaces where I discovered water while drilling a small screw hole for securing transducer & speed sending unit wireing in the splashwell. Always wondered how it got in there. Must be those rubrail fasteners again. Keep up the work in progress posts, I'm learning a lot. I wonder, do those fasteners go through any balsa core? Horrors!!! That could be an ugly can of worms!!!
nordicstallion
New member
Ok, I did the rub rail search & it's as I suspected. I say again.....HORRORS!!!!
nordicstallion":2e9rivma said:Must be those rubrail fasteners again. Keep up the work in progress posts, I'm learning a lot. I wonder, do those fasteners go through any balsa core? Horrors!!! That could be an ugly can of worms!!!
I would be extremely surprised if your rub rail fasteners went through any kind of core. I know there are some differences in the way the smaller boats are built, but I think it's mostly in the flotation chamber part, since the smaller boats have built in flotation aft.
But back to the rubrail. I'll speak for the 22, but say that the 19 is likely similar. The hull and deck molding are joined right under the rub rail. However, the rub rail is not "part" of the joint, except that it handily covers the seam so it does not need any other finishing/cosmetics. The hull and deck are a butt joint, and while they are still in the mold fiberglass tabbing (like tape) is applied to the inside of the boat in this area to permanently join them. Actually, the boat would be totally water-tight in this area if the rub rail were not fastened with penetrating fasteners.
The two sections of the boat that meet in this butt joint and are joined with fiberglass tabbing are not cored, at least on the 22.
nordicstallion
New member
Thank you Sunseam, that takes a load off my mind. That aft floatation section is pretty much inaccessible as are two spaces behind the two battery compartments. When replacing rub rail fasteners I'll have to use some sort of small headed lag screws 5200.
nordicstallion
New member
ZoeB. I've started on my rub rails. On the 19 & probably the 16 too since our short boats are required to have that aft floatation, it's the nonacessable spaces where our problems occur. The rails are installed using aluminum drive rivets that use a hardened steel pin down the center that is driven in with a hammer spreading the inside end into three sections. On areas where there is access to the inside, they pulled out the hardened pin & flattened out the three meat hooks & covered them with adhesive covering the center hole in the rivet. Where there is no access to the end of the rivet, from the house back, except for the battery compartments, they just drove the pin down flush with the head & called it good. It's not good!! The only thing keeping water out is the steel pin & you know what happens to steel in salt water! There was also no attempt to seal around the rivet itself. How much work would it have taken to put in a little squirt of 5200 to seal around the rivet. They should have punched the pin all the was thru & filled the hole too!! I'm using coarse threaded Phillips oval head screws with the head ground down to prevent interference with the rubber reinstallation in the nonacessable areas & machine screws with nylok nuts everywhere else.
Thanks C-Dog. I will start my rub rails soon and will be taking pictures. In the meantime I am going to put access covers into both the port and starboard flotation chambers. I did notice the seam where they joined the top and bottom parts of the boat during construction when I was repairing the rub rail last spring.
Bryant":245pj78r said:My boat has a list to starboard as well. I bought some lead shot in bags for ballast that I have under my port front passenger seat.
Check out the pics in the Zoe B album. I get that most of the boats have a slight starboard list, however mine was caused by water accumulating in the starboard void just fwd of the gas tank. Water is coming in behind the rub rail most likely at the seam where they joined the cabin to the hull.
Plus, yours was increasing, for no obvious reason :shock: You obviously did the right thing in finding the cause vs. just using trim ballast to mask it.
Will be interesting to see your rubrail project proceed. The rubrail on my 22 has pulled away due to failed rivets for 1-2' amidships on both sides, and I was grumbling about the job as I crawled in under the galley cabinets -- but now I'm just happy I can get to them!
Will be interesting to see your rubrail project proceed. The rubrail on my 22 has pulled away due to failed rivets for 1-2' amidships on both sides, and I was grumbling about the job as I crawled in under the galley cabinets -- but now I'm just happy I can get to them!