Lenco Trim Tabs

Da Nag

Da Nag

Administrator
Staff member
I hate to post a negative review, but I know many folks make decisions based on what they read here. If any of you have Lencos and are satisfied with them, feel free to chime in here.

After having used the Lencos for a while, and talking with TyBoo Mike and Mark (2nd Byte) about them, I'm sorry to say none of us are as pleased with them as previous models. Both Mark and I had TrimMasters before (Mark on his 22, me on my 19), TyBoo had the Bennet M80's.

The main problem - they don't have anywhere near the lift that the other manufacturer's models have.

'Tis a shame - I really like the design better. Not having to deal with hydraulics is nice, and the instantaneous response from the screw jacks is a plus. Also, the controls with the integrated position indicators are pretty slick. Still, if'n they don't adjust the boat as they should, all that goes out the window. Both Mike and I routinely run the boat with one side all the way down just to get proper lateral trim.

I've not given up on them yet, but none of the mods I have in mind are ideal. First thing I'm going to try - moving the arm farther forward on the tab bottom, closer to the hinge. In the stock configuration, Lenco places them as far aft on the tab as possible, which gives the least amount of travel possible for the length of the screw jack.

If that doesn't work, I'll look into having the turned-up edges turned down - this would generate a little more lift, and is how both Bennett and TrimMaster build their tabs.

If none of the above proves satisfactory, I'll probably have some extensions fabbed up and bolt them on.

More details as they come, but for now, I'd suggest those of you thinking about tabs consider going with the known good tab configurations - Bennett and TrimMaster.
 
Sorry - should have specified.

The Lencos are 9x12 - 12" being the length. The TrimMasters were 12x9 - same area, but wider and shorter.

Actually, the Lenco's taper to the rear. Mark mentioned in an email to me that he figured that was responsible for a reduction of about 12 square inches.

Not sure what size Mike has on the 25 - when he gets back from vacation, he'll probably chime in.

Here's a pic of the Bennetts on TyBoo 22 - you can see that the ram mounts further back than the Lencos. Same with the TrimMasters - here's a pic from my 19 install.

I'm not sure if there is any travel difference between the three manufacturer's rams that would make up for the differences in attachment locations.
 
I have Lencos on a CD22, but don't have the problems you're describing. Would like for you to post some close up photos of the installation (top, rear, bottom and side views) while out of the water with the tabs fully lowered, and of your boat at rest in the water, loaded and ready to go, with you at the helm. Just how much of an imbalance are you trying to correct for, and at what speeds? Maybe I'm not having do do as much correction as you, or am doing so at higher speeds, but ...
 
Here's a link to the only photo I've got - can't post more for a while, Da Nag is two states away. I do recall that fully retracted, they were where I expected them to be - raised just a hair above the bottom of the hull. I'm confident there's no install problem - Les has been doing trim tab installs on C-Dory's for years.

A typical load that requires full tab extension to port - full starboard fuel, half port fuel, 3/4 water tank, one adult seated to port. Any more water or fuel, or adding a third adult and I can't correct laterally. With this load, the boat sits pretty much level with nobody aboard.

There's no problem fore/aft, now that I have the Permatrim hydrofoil on. Prior to adding it, I couldn't quite get the bow down far enough with full tanks at lower speeds. On my 19 with TrimMasters, there was no need for a hydrofoil, and it was a more stern-heavy boat.

Also, my kicker is to port, but it's a Honda Classic 8 - pretty light.

Still - glad to hear they are working out for you. Do you have a kicker, and if so, where's it mounted? What's your typical load, and how much tab do you need to correct laterally?
 
Ditto on the Lenco's, Bill. Not enough travel in the actuator. The TyBoo25 has 12 x 12 tabs. They do not taper to narrower like yours do, but the rear corners are bent upward just a hair. The TyBoo22 had Bennett M120 Sport Tabs (12 x 10). That was way more tab than the 22 ever used, but the Lencos on the 25 are inadequate. If I go bigger in either direction, I will need a bracket for the kicker which I do not want.

I already made some 1/2" spacers to go between the tab and the actuator mount, which pushes the tab deeper into the water. That helped quite a bit, but I still find I need more at times. The next plan is to move the actuator mount on the tab back closer to the hinge, giving more travel to the tab. That option is limited by the diameter of the actuator at the top touching the transom when fully down. To help that, maybe I'll take the spacers and put them between the transom and the top mount, which will also be a geometrical plus. But if I have to go to all that trouble, I might just put my original Bennett hydraulic pump and actuators on in place of the stupid Lenco screw jacks.

In my case, though, one big plus with the Lencos is not needing the expensive position indicator. The tab on the side with the most people is always full down, and the other one is constantly being adjusted because the people won't stay still.
 
Hey, Da Nag. Go to the Photos section for Trim Tabs, and take a close look at the tabs and installation on Da Nag, and Alma'a Only. Looks to me like our Lenco's are different units, entirely. Note the height of the top mounts. Those on Alma's Only are considerably higher, and the cylinders might be a little different, too. What do you think?
 
Da Nag":31lqgil7 said:
Here's a link to the only photo I've got - can't post more for a while, Da Nag is two states away.
Click to expand...

Bill, since I believe our trim tabs to be mounted the same, there are several pix of our trim tabs on the last page of the "Sea Shift" album.

Although, (up until this vessel), I've had no experience with trim tabs, I've found that since "Sea Shift" has the twin engines I'm able to "motor trim" the engines slightly differently (depending on the load distribution in the boat....aka crew moving about the vessel) and that improves our lateral trim.
(I don't know if this is a "proper maneuver" to do with twin engines, but it does work!). (I would welcome any thoughts however on trimming the engines differently for lateral adjustment). :wink
 
Hi Bill,
Sorry to hear the Lenco tabs are no working out. Especially since I will be getting the same ones on my boat. Should I reconsider this option? ( If it is not too late).

I will probably be mostly cruising with the 2 of us and plenty of gear. We usually take too much stuff. I am also planning on hauling a kayak and the 35lb inflatable.

Since I don't have any real experience (yet) cruising CD,s or trim tabs I have to rely on Les and the C-Dory group.

Thanks,
Steve
 
I'm going to run the Lenco's as is this year and if more lateral correction is needed figure a way to configure/reconfigure a fix. The tapering to the rear of the tab is a big minus (as it makes the 9'' x 12'" stated size of the tabs simply a misstatement of fact). Not turning the edges down to better contain the water flow on the tabs is another minus.

I don't know if anyone has had a serious conversation with Lenco regarding a fix on the above but it would be interesting to do so. I would like to know why they do the taper and why they don't turn the edges down. Seems simple.............or am I missing something.

As an initial compensation I did install the Permatrim hydrofoil as Bill did and I really do like it. Took it out in the heavy weather to day and the CD handles great with it and it is far superior in every way to previous hydrofoils I've used such as the Sting Ray and
SE300.
 
Hi Mark,

The tapered Lencos work great on lots of 22 CD's. The more wetted area you have, the more drag. As I'm sure you remember, the original designers of our CD's didn't want tabs period! And If you have ever been seriously down-swell in a following sea with the tabs down -- no doubt why. Makes sense to keep them as small as possible if they will do what they are designed to do.

I really like trim tabs on the 22, and it would be a different boat without them -- but when you use them for lateral trim to correct improper boat loading, you are significantly reducing hull efficiency and increasing fuel consumption. And of course when you trim down into a chop to get a better ride you do the same thing. Gotta pay one way or the other, eh? TyBoo22 is an excellent example of the right way to do it! The outboard bracket/tab combination works great.

All of these floating gadgets are compromises, eh? Would sure like to be in Valdez now, reeling in slabs.

Dusty
 
Good advice as always, Dusty - but in the case of the 22, it's not always "improper" loading that causes the need for lateral trim. Whenever possible, I do try and move things around to get as good of a natural balance as possible, but it's not always feasible.

Take the case of 3 adults and a full water tank - there's nowhere to put all of that weight except to port. And if you have your kicker to port as I do (which makes for a better natural balance when going alone, as I often do), there's even more weight to port that can't be moved.

Still, points well taken - I agree, the least amount of tab that will do the job is preferable. Hopefully, the tweaks I've got in mind will address the problems I have with the Lencos when loaded as described above.

I think TyBoo hit the nail on the head - it's not so much the size of the Lencos, as it is the actuator travel.
 
Alma's Only":28179sts said:
Looks to me like our Lenco's are different units, entirely. Note the height of the top mounts. Those on Alma's Only are considerably higher, and the cylinders might be a little different, too. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Good observation - mine are one of the "E" models, which mounts the actuator farther back on the tab. This allows the top of the actuator to install 4" lower on the transom - here are some details from Lenco's site.

Assuming the travel in the two actuators are the same, your's would seem to give you more tab movement downwards. I don't have the boat handy, so I can't take any measurements right now, but I'd be curious to know how far down your's deploy. Perhaps you can get an angle measurement in the full down position, or snap up a photo? I'll do the same when I pick up the boat in a couple weeks.
 
seabran":4buynav1 said:
Hi Bill,
Sorry to hear the Lenco tabs are no working out. Especially since I will be getting the same ones on my boat. Should I reconsider this option? ( If it is not too late).

I will probably be mostly cruising with the 2 of us and plenty of gear. We usually take too much stuff. I am also planning on hauling a kayak and the 35lb inflatable.
Click to expand...
Two things, Steve...

First, I wouldn't assume you are getting the same tabs. I believe the factory is installing them now, and I'm not certain they are using the same model of Lencos I have. They may be using something along the lines of Alma's Only, which would probably behave differently given the different actuator location.

Also, if you are mostly 2 person cruising, and carrying a lot of stuff that can be moved around to balance things out, and have no kicker to port, you may not have an issue regardless of which tabs you get installed.
 
You are right, Mr. DaNag --

There are times you just ain't got enough! In my airplane jock days I've known fellers who would put all the passengers on one side and use trim to level -- works!!

And your example of 3 pax, full H2O, and kicker all to port is a perfect example of why you need tabs... and if I loaded like that I'd surely increase tab area. Either that or eat a lot more... of course being the tightwad I am, I never carry more fuel or water than a safety margin for the trip, and never full fuel starboard along with the diriver -- and empty fuel port. Not enough tab for that. And extra weight really sucks up gas... of course Californians don't care. :lol:

The Orca is a good case in point re tabs. Those barn doors they call tabs should be elevators on a 747. I've given myself a good case of heartburn in Deception when forgetting to get 'em all the way up. But with the 200 gals of fuel, full water, full hot water and full holding tank plus a heavy I/O - an option I'm happy I don't have (yuk), gotta have tabs to grunt out of the hole with a full load of pax. Just a tad of down dab at cruise really digs the nose in to where she bow steers. Lot of trust by the builder, because improper use of these tabs in a heavy sea could be frightening.

Dusty
 
Sawdust":kgi1hsc2 said:
There are times you just ain't got enough!
Click to expand...
Given my inability to eat anything that doesn't taste good, I think that's a temporary situation...:shock:

I never carry more fuel or water than a safety margin for the trip...
Click to expand...
Oh wise one, some day I hope to benefit from your years of experience and many fine examples. Until then, I'm a cheapskate, and never know where I may end up once in the water, so I fill up on the road where the wallet pain is somewhat lessened.

RE the water tank - that one, I'll go along with. Unfortunately, I can't find an easy way to get that 20 gallons out of the tank quickly, so it's still 3/4's full from the first time I filled it. My solution (actually, Les Jr.'s) will kill 2 birds - I'm going to install a pump, and have a fresh water washdown. At least this way, I can empty that sucker in a few minutes if need be.

I did pick up a couple ideas today - gave Lenco a call. They suggested I go to a larger tab - the 12x12, but I'm not crazy about this option. First, I'm not sure there is room. Second, if the holes don't line up (obviously I'll need to drill SOME new ones), I may get into a tricky mounting situation.

My thought, and they didn't rule it out - swap out the actuators. Here's a link to their actuator page - the 101's are what I have. Swapping them out for a pair of 102XD's would give me a bunch more travel - the 101's go from 11.5" to 13.75", the 102XD's go from 12.25" to 18". In the full up position, the larger actuators would only be .75" longer, which would probably result in very little difference in tab position when fully retracted.

The main problem with the above - they have different tips on the tab end, and something would need to be fabbed up to match them to the existing tab. Good thing we have a millright in the club...:mrgreen:
 
Hi Dusty,

Agreed the smallest tab that will do the job is the way to go. Problem is the job varies. The Lenco 9"x12" isn't........it's more like 8"x12" in actual area. That plus the fact that the small of the taper is to the back where the greatest amount of influence would be made in application is an added consideration. Tyboo and Bill's comments on increasing the travel may mitigate the effilcilency somewhat.

Careful what you wish for my friend. Valdez is in the middle of pretty steady rain and mucho fog right now. Supposed to be looking up over the weekend though. I was out today for a few hours getting some burn time on the boat and getting more familiar with the electronics but didn't wet a line. Too nasty for Betty so I solo'ed it.

Fishing will start seriously next week. Silvers are showing in the arm already but bloody few boats out on water because of the weather.
 
I'll wait for the weather at Val to clear, Mark.

We've whipped this por ol tab thing to death, I guess -- and I had to fight to get 'em on the first time and wouldn't be without them.

Agree, if small won't do the job, go bigger. I'm a cheap old goat though and know that every square inch of tab stuck down at an angle to lift one side of the boat beats the p out of my gas mileage, so priority one is to level the boat as much as practical before tabbing. Because TyBoo22 is no longer in my stable I can't go do my homework and quantify (big word for old guy) my bluff and bluster. Like latex, one size just ain't gonna fit all. A naked 22, as I'm sure was used in the magazine test, is totally different than one with windlass, rode, arch, radar, electronic gadgets unlimited, downriggers, extra battery, full fuel, full water, max pax -- endless list, and all of it adds bloat. Different tab requirement? You bet.

Larry and Sandy (daughter and son-in-law) just installed Lenco on their new 22, so I'll get a chance to play...

Feel guilty, Mark, pontificating all the time, but most of my small boat experience is from continually smashing my thumb with a hammer. Once should be enough - but you know me!! Just try to keep others from doing what I've done over and over and finally got the message!

Have fun, and catch lots!

Dusty
 
Hey Dustyl,

Thank God we have your vast experience and insightful mind and quick wit to draw from. Keep it coming!

No question, that the variables are endless and no single answer can begin to address the myriad combinations that the fertile mind can add to a seemingly simple hull. Reckon that is part of the fun of it.

Been out the last couple days cruising and putting time on the boat. Pulled it out of the water today for the first service and it goes back in tomorrow.

Next week the serious fishing starts and as luck would have it the weather is looking up. I'll nail a big'un for you and stick you name on it but the derby winner is mine baby!

Enjoy!................Mark
 
Kind words, Mark -- but many Brat old salts are more knowledgeable but just don't mouth off so much. I've learned so much from (1) Sailors. Back when I was a Herrschoff sloop owner and a listener, many many lessons. Number one, I guess, that those beautiful seagulls that make cruising a delight are just Texas buzzards looking for road kill. Do your homework before you take in lines and get underway. (2) Predicted Log racers. The great years I spent with those guys taught me so much about reading a chart, reading water, tuning a boat -- much more than all of my formal education and time at sea. And (3) C-Lou (my :love) and her professional cohorts -- I'm 84 years old, and If I don't keep my mouth shut it will quit working too!! :) :)

Dusty
 
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