Lateral trim question for 22's with kicker to starboard.

[Sunbeam]

Hi folks,

My 22 has a ~110# Honda 8 mounted to starboard (swim step is to port). That, combined with two batteries in the starboard lazarette seems to make the boat list to starboard. Given that I'll be doing a fair amount of solo boating - and so I'll be to starboard too, I'm wondering if I should make any change to help compensate for it. I say "seems" because I haven't really run the boat yet, but when it was being lifted on land (center-point slings), we had to put quite a bit of weight on the port side to keep her from rolling to starboard. However, maybe the "air balance" was more dramatic than it would be in the water (?).

Now I'm in the position of making some changes without the benefit of real, on-the-water experience, so that's why I'm asking you all. I'm in the middle of some projects and need to make decisions that will affect lateral trim before I can re-launch and sea trial - namely replacing the batteries, cables, switches, and associated gear.

I want to keep the swim platform to port/kicker to starboard for a couple of reasons: one, because they are there; and, two, because I like the clear, cable-free approach to the swim platform on the port side. I realize that the trim tabs (another project in progress) will probably compensate when I'm underway, but I'd like to not list to starboard while at anchor, and it seems it would be nicer not to have to "push" one trim tab all the way down always just to trim the boat laterally.

So, options I'm considering:

1) Batteries
Keep batteries in starboard lazarette, move them to port lazarette, or move them to cockpit between fuel tanks.
I'd like to keep them in the starboard lazarette if possible because it's already a "bad" lazarette, what with it having all the motor cables running through it, and having only a partial floor/sides. The port lazarette is a more useful, tidier storage compartment and I would also like to keep it available for a possible future propane locker, so I really don't desire the batteries there, using it up. That said, the batteries/etc. will be around 150# so that would be an effective 300# move just by itself (and I could glass in the starboard laz if I really wanted to). I imagine that would solve the imbalance.I don't think I really want the batteries under the splashwell between the tanks, because I could put larger items there, such as fenders or a spare tank of fuel, but it is a possibility.

2) Kicker
I could change from my "fully featured" kicker (Honda 8D with electric start) to something much smaller/lighter and lose 70# or so. But I have the Honda and it's like new, so my preference would be to at least try it.

3) Trim with cargo (or ballast)?
This is the question it's harder for me to put a number on and/or to really visualize in use. Easiest (best for now) would be to keep the kicker I have, put the new batteries into the starboard lazarette where the current ones are, and plan to trim with things I load onto the boat. But I'm simply not sure if this will be feasible. I plan to use the water tank (I like to anchor out), so I can't count on keeping that full to add weight to the port side -- it's as likely to be nearly empty as it is to be full. And of course the under-galley cabinet is just begging to be filled with stores (why is it that everything seems to add weight to the starboard side?! :cry ).

So, can I load enough into the locker above the water tank, the locker under the dinette foot area, and the forward under-seat area locker to compensate? That's the big question. For those of you have got this far and are still awake, do any of you run/moor like this? Especially solo and perhaps with a not-full water tank? Are you able to keep enough/heavy stores on port side to compensate for a kicker/batteries/person on starboard? Do you add actual trim ballast? I'd hate to move the batteries over only to find out it wasn't really necessary (especially since I'd prefer them on starboard); OTOH, I'm about to put in all-new batteries, cables, and etc. so now would be the time.

Thanks for any input. I've searched and found some discussion on this, but not an exact match.

Sunbeam :hot

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

I moved the house battery to the port side lazerette, and upped the size to a group 27. That and a tank full of water seem to do a good job.

Please note, there are now covers over the terminals. for ventilation, I put a series of 1 inch holes across the bottom of the laz.

 

[ferret30]

I'm almost always cruising with my wife, so she cancels out the weight of the 9.9 kicker.

I'm also going to be moving my house battery to port with the started battery. By removing 44lbs from port side and adding 44lbs to starboard side, it has the same effect as adding 88lbs to the starboard side!

You may find it helpful to make a spreadsheet (use google docs if you don't have excel) and tally your weights and check out your options.



In the table above, I was trying to decide which side to put the swim step and kicker. I chose kicker on startboard like you did because of the tiller maneuverability and not wanting to step on cables. For each option, I figured out the side to side delta with an empty and full water tank. Having the swim step on port is the best option for us since the weight shifts from one side to the other as the tank empties. In the other configuration, the weight would always be heavier to port.

If I moved both batteries to port, the balance would be even better.

 

[Sunbeam]

Thanks for the inputs :thup In a nutshell, I guess I am pretty sure that if I moved the batteries to the port-side lazarette, things would balance nicely independent of stores/load. But.... I don't want to move them there, really. So I'm wondering how "easy" (or possible) it is to make up the lateral trim with normal stores/tools/etc.

I'd hate to move the batteries to port if it's relatively easy to make up for the lateral imbalance with cargo (and leave them on starboard), but even knowing how much things weigh I just don't have an overall "real world" sense for how I'll be loading the boat (with gear), since I have not used it myself yet, so I'm left slightly wondering. Also, since I'm not sure how the "baseline" boat will trim out, I'm not confident that I can (yet) use a chart to add/subtract and have it be meaningful. I'm hoping I can get a sense of things from those of you who are already running your 22's with the kicker to starboard (and maybe batteries to starboard as well).

Currently there are two Group 24 batteries together in the starboard lazarette (one start; one house). I'm changing that to one Group 31 (house) and one smaller one (U-1 IIRC) for starting. They will both fit in one lazarette together I think/hope/but have not tried yet. I don't have the figures in front of me, but I think that will be around 130# for the two batteries, plus a few more for cables, ACR, switch, etc.

Thanks again for your contributions,

Sunbeam

 

[Sea Wolf]

Sunbeam-

No matter what you do, you'll still have to make some adjustments for different loading, unless you go alone all the time and with the same gear/equipment/persons on board.

I added two group 27's under the front passenger/dinette seat because I needed them to run an engine mounted electric trolling motor in lieu of a kicker. They slightly over balanced the boat, so then I added some spare anchors to the starboard side. It's never perfect!

Add a person or two, and it's back to Square One!

Would be nice to have something heavy to move around, like a generator, air conditioner, refrigerator, extra girlfriend, etc., to balance the boat. Would be great to have it on a sliding track with pulleys (like a sailboat traveler) to pull it back and forth to balance out the boat (omit the extra girlfriend in that configuration, please).:lol:

And just when you think you've got it all figured out, something will change, so don't plan on having it perfect. Your wife may decide you need a shower, an Airhead toilet, a big dog, perhaps no girlfriend or maybe even a chaperone, etc.

I guess that's one of the things that makes boating challenging: changing conditions. And we haven't even mentioned the possibility of adding or subtracting some family members.

Right now some extra anchors or batteries are looking like a cheap alternative!

Another alternative: a 150 pound Great Dane makes an excellent moveable ballast, but like a wife or extra girlfriend, they must be trained, of course! :smiled

Sorry to be so capricious, but I'm just having some fun while chattin' with ya'!

Joe. :teeth :thup

 

[Sunbeam]

No matter what you do, you'll still have to make some adjustments for different loading, unless you go alone all the time and with the same gear/equipment/persons on board.

Understood. I guess I was just wondering if I would be setting myself up for an "impossible" situation by keeping both the heavy kicker and the batteries on the starboard side. Weight logistics aside, that's where I would like to have them both. I realize that that any balance is not static, due to load variables, but my thought was: would I be making it an uphill battle to balance things via cargo/load with both on starboard?

If I can relatively easily adjust/compensate for both the kicker and batteries to starboard - even when solo-boating - then great, I can keep the batteries in the "lesser" lazarette, where I think I'd prefer them, and move forward with my projects :thup

Another alternative: a 150 pound Great Dane makes an excellent moveable ballast :smiled

Not to mention the additional 100# of trim ballast in the form of dog food!

Sorry to be so capricious, but I'm just having some fun while chattin' with ya'!

No worries - you made me laugh, and that's even when I'm about to go extricate core/grind fiberglass (replacing original lazarette hatches with new ones) - not one of my favorite jobs

 

[ferret30]

Ideally, I would think a good place to start would be to get the boat closely balanced with the "permanent" equipment. Anchors, batteries, kicker, half full water tank (on average). When you've achieved this, then all that's left is to arrange your temporary gear.

If you're starting with a boat that has the captain, kicker, and batteries all on one side, then you'll constantly be looking for heavy passengers, heavy gear, etc. to shove over to the other side

 

[Sunbeam]

Ideally, I would think a good place to start would be to get the boat closely balanced with the "permanent" equipment. Anchors, batteries, kicker, half full water tank (on average). When you've achieved this, then all that's left is to arrange your temporary gear.

I agree, but..... unfortunately I "have" to make some decisions now with the boat on the trailer and before I've had a chance to use her. The "sure" way would be to move the batteries to the port side lazarette, but since I would really like to avoid that, I thought I would try to get a feel for how difficult it would be to balance a boat with kicker, batteries, and human all on starboard side. I figured, well, maybe the imbalance was just way more dramatic when the boat was hanging in the air suspended by centerline-attached straps only. Perhaps that's wishful thinking.

Still, I did put the new batteries in the starboard lazarette today just to try them. That makes me want them there even more, because the Group 31 (house), Group U-1 (start), switches, ACR, Bennett trim tab pump, etc. will all fit tidily in there.

But.... will I be sorry trim-wise? Or will cargo/etc. be able to compensate.... that's the question.

Sunbeam :hot

 

[Sea Wolf]

Just a note: Hope no one was offended by my "extra girlfriend" jest in the post above. Just trying to make some fun while discussing the topic. Surprised no one commented on it (took the bait)! Ha! Joe. :lol:

 

[Jake B]

My 22 is set up the same as yours. And I was afraid of a bad starboard list. But was actually quite shocked to see that it wasn't that bad on the Water. That said I have always had a least one person with me. And have not gone out solo yet. I have two group27 I believe batteries on board charger and honda 9.9 electric everything on the starboard side. And was originally planning on countering with water tank but have bot seen the need for it yet. That said the most I have gone is 5-6 miles off for fishing, and once my trim tabs get here and get my electric bilge installed that will change alot more.

So maybe it won't be as bad as you think?

 

[Sunbeam]

Thanks, Jake - I'm glad you replied since you have the same set-up. It's uncanny how *everything* seems to "want" to be on starboard, isn't it? :cry

I do like a boat that is trimmed properly with the basic installed components, but it's so convenient having the kicker/batteries on starboard that I'm willing to trim with cargo presuming it's not too onerous. I got a bit spooked by how easy/much the boat rolled to starboard in the slings (they were not suspended in a U like most Travelift slings but instead had a spreader bar on top with a single, central connection point) and so when it came time to decide where to put ~130# worth of batteries... I felt I had to at least check with the experienced folks here since the port-side lazarette was available.

By last night I had pretty much decided to at least try the starboard lazarette - after seeing how nicely everything fit yesterday, and how nice and (more) useful that empty port lazarette looks. Your post now just adds to my decision. Worst-case scenario I can move it all over later on; best case I get to keep things as they are. Also, there is a chance I'll change to a smaller kicker down the line - if I go to an engine-powered dinghy I think I'll strongly consider something like a Honda 2 for a combination kicker/dinghy engine. That would take ~80# off the starboard transom. (OTOH, I may find I like the Honda 8.)

And hey, I'm always trying to figure out a good place to store my dive weights... (Realistically, it will probably be tools - the locker under the helm foot area looked attractive for those...of course! But... noo...they will simply have to go to port.)

Thanks to all who contributed :thup

Sunbeam :hot

 

[Sunbeam]

Just thought I would follow up on this thread about my boat's list to starboard.

Over the summer I traded/sold my "deluxe" (and heavy, 110# dry) Honda 8D kicker* for a Mercury 5hp 2-stroke that is 45# "wet." So I lost about 70# off the starboard transom. Now, with basically the same loads (except for the kicker change), the boat is perfectly balanced, port-to-starboard. Much better! The Honda was a really nice engine, but its capabilities were somewhat "wasted" for my purposes. Another plus is that I can get this engine on and off the transom myself, and it's not a back-breaker to lean out and raise/lower it when in use. I'm happy with the switch. If I were going to use the kicker all the time, then I would miss the smooth (2-cylinder) and deluxe Honda.

Sunbeam

*To another C-Brat, who will use it regularly for fishing (I only have a kicker for a "fallback" engine so it mainly only gets used to make sure it is still functioning).

 

[Darkwater]

Sunbeam, I would say, make your changes incrementally with in-the-water evaluation as you go if you are near a launch ramp.

On our 22 cruiser we have 1 battery in stbd locker, and 62lb Yamaha 6 kicker on port side. I am thinking of moving the kicker to stbd with a mini jacker. From the above posts I am guessing this will not cause much list to stbd because I have only 1 battery and the kicker is relatively light. Maybe add a swim step on port side, but I already have a portable boarding ladder.

I want to add a house battery, perhaps a relatively small AGM under the dinette if room... small AGM might not have the oomph to start the Honda BF90D but that motor has a procedure for manual rope-start (have any of you tried that?)

I am thinking with some LED lights and perhaps a solar panel or two, a small house battery may be all that's needed and this may be appropriate for this size boat. Before any of this however, I need to see how the boat handles with the new permatrim, and dial in the best mounting holes (probably bringing it up one hole and maybe two). I want to keep overall weight of boat light as feasible.

In Fort Bragg, these fall and winter months are a good time to make a change then take boat down to the harbor to test. (provided we are between periods of storm seas)

Anyway we are all having fun, I hope, messing about with such things as weight and trim.

 

[Sunbeam]

Sunbeam, I would say, make your changes incrementally with in-the-water evaluation as you go if you are near a launch ramp.

Thanks for the input. I changed the kicker (went to one that is 70# lighter than the one I had before) and now the lateral trim is just right :thup I'm very pleased. It's very nice not having the boat listing to starboard, especially at rest (where there was no way to adjust with the trim tabs). Now I don't have to "brace" to one side when sleeping and all my photos don't have the boat "sad-sackedly" listing at anchor