Jury duty

R

rogerbum

New member
Well, the past 2 weeks have been interesting. I was called in for jury duty on March 5th and assumed I'd not get selected. However, unlike the typical experience, I wound up on a jury and spent the last two weeks listening to a domestic violence case involving an assault, threatening with a deadly weapon (a knife), possession of a firearm, witness tampering, violation of 2 no contact orders, felony imprisonment and harassment.

We finished our duty yesterday afternoon and delivered guilty verdicts for about half the charges. The 26 yr old male defendant will be going to jail for 5-7.5 years (not much chance for early release as this was his 3rd strike on some counts). While I was impressed with my fellow jurors, the whole experience was a little saddening. I'm fairly sure that the victim in this case will hook up with another abusive guy (she was with this guy even though he had two no contact orders and had previously assaulted her). I'm pretty sure the defendant will by abusive to his next female companion when he gets out of jail. Worst of all, I pretty sure the victims children will grow up in an environment in which violence is commonplace. It was emotionally draining but it was nice to see the other jurors take their duty seriously and do their best to be fair and reasonable.

I learned a couple of lessons on this one (I was the presiding juror - AKA jury foreman). 1) You can't rush justice - there were a couple of jurors who wanted to go through things far more slowly than the rest of us. While it was a bit painful for me, they were simply trying to be fair and cautious and their views needed to be heard. 2) I don't EVER want a court appointed attorney. While the defense attorney didn't have a lot to work with, I think 10 or the 12 jurors could have done a better job than he.

I'm glad the whole thing is over. I'm way behind in my work as a result of this and I lost about $250 in non-refundable travel fees (for a trip that had to be canceled as a result of my jury duty) but overall it was interesting to see how the process works. The prosecuting attorney was stellar and I was quite impressed with the judge also. I'm glad that these people do what they do day in and day out.
 
Interesting Post, Roger. Thank you. I have never served on Jury duty. During my professional life, I was always excused. Since then that "MD" seems to keep the summons away....
 
I bet it was physically and mentally draining. I've never served as times I was called I was 1,000 or so miles from home working and got excused. My daughter served on a murder trial years ago in Charlotte. It was a pretty wealthy guy had killed his wife and he had a team of high dollar lawyers. He was found guilty after a trial that lasted almost three months. What really surprised me was after the trial how the defense attorney's harrassed the jurors trying to find any reason for a mistrial.
 
I too have never served on a jury. Being a police officer for 18 years I was excused and since then no one seems to want me on a jury...wonder why? I'd like to sit on one, but most likely it'll be a civil case.

During part of my law enforcement career I was a detective in the Domestic Violence bureau. It was, as Roger stated, a very sad and frustrating job. The rate of recidivism was huge and the reality that some of the people would return to the abuser because they had pushed away all of their friends and family was all too evident. From a strictly selfish point of view, I'm glad I'm no longer in the middle of all that. It was completely draining.

What any of this has to do with boating...I have no idea, but thank you Roger for sharing. It probably helped you by getting it off your chest.

Often you don't know how good things are unless occasionally you see what life could be like.
 
Kind of a non-boating subject, but of interest to us all, and 'hopefully' non-controversial. Jury service serves a very useful purpose. I've been on 12-15 jurys, might even call me a professional juror if there is such a thing. When I get picked and the judge asks me to tell him about my cases, I ask "how much time do you have?".

I've been on quite a range from robbery and burglery to embezzlement and leud conduct, both civil and criminal. The cases that give me the most heartburn are usually the simplest (in my mind). But what really gets to me is how a prospective juror is asked all kinds of questions from the attorneys and judge regarding honesty and impartiality before they are sworn in, always the same, "Oh yes, I will be completely impartial."

Then the trial takes place and we go into deliberation. Sometimes those very same people will begin by saying something like "I don't believe a thing most of the witnesses said, the police officer lied as well (the attoney's warn us to not give police any more or less credibility than anybody else during the trial -- so they sometimes take that to heart--the wrong way...). Then on one particular trial a group decided that ALL the testimony was bogus because the defendant couldn't have done the crime, he 'looks' too nice (suit, tie, clean haircut, etc). Fortunately though, these kinds of jurys are in the minority!!!
 
Roger, Thanks for bringing up such an interesting subject. Also appreciate it that the site administrators have this forum "That's Life" so we can discuss events that occur during our lives that have nothing to do with boating. As a non US citizen until 2003 I didn't have to appear for jury duty. In 2005 I received the letter from the courthouse that I'd been chosen. Didn't get picked but enjoyed the experience.

Ruth
R-MATEY
 
I too was chosen last year. Also got to be jury foreman. Pretty disappointing as well. Defendant was a long time violence offender, his "defense witnesses" were as well. But in this case the police totally botched the case. Really had no reason to arrest as the suspect clothing was no match. It was raining hard and the suspect was bone dry, etc. etc. District attorney should never have gone there either. We voted 11-1 to acquit, knowing full well that suspect would be in court again shortly, maybe for something worse. Only needed 10 votes to decide. The one jury member that voted for guilty was totally out in left field and wouldn't listen to anyone. He was operating strictly on looks and record. Not so sure if the occasion ever arose if I would choose to be judged by a jury. Glad the opportunity doesn't come up very often to be called to jury duty. I know we all feel the duty and responsibility but when the rubber meets the road it can really sour you on people and the system.
 
Sarge":15v0gp12 said:
During part of my law enforcement career I was a detective in the Domestic Violence bureau. It was, as Roger stated, a very sad and frustrating job. The rate of recidivism was huge and the reality that some of the people would return to the abuser because they had pushed away all of their friends and family was all too evident. From a strictly selfish point of view, I'm glad I'm no longer in the middle of all that. It was completely draining.
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Like you, this is my 12th year in LE, most of it "on the street". Your statement is totally accurate. Some people are just beyond help and I've come to the point where I literally don't care. Dysfunction cannot be out lawed or legislated away. I can't tell you how many cases I've dealt with where we have the same people, with the same "issues" over and over and over...I still, however, have empathy for the children in these cases. They had no choice; no one gets to pick their parents. Unfortunately, in my experience they simply carry on the dysfunction they witness and grew up in, and the cycle repeats. To them it's "normal". Very sad.

I've felt good at times when I've really made a difference or helped a real victim, but alas those times seem far and few between now. As I get older my body is feeling all those years. A torn ACL, a messed up neck from two car accidents (I was T-boned by a fleeing felon), a damaged elbow, various other injuries. I've been nearly run over, and as a result, was involved in a fatal, on-duty shooting. You want to talk stress.

Like you I look forward to the day I can leave it all behind. Over the years "the job" has eaten away at me like a cancer. Kinda negative, I know. But realistic I think and I am not the only officer/deputy to think this way. Someone asked me recently "What are your goals here?" My answer: 1. Stay alive and healthy 2. The 5th& the 20th (pay days) 3. Retire.
 
Mark,

You got me to thinking, which can be dangerous :wink:

Jury duty is one of the few times the average citizen gets an up close and personal view of parts of society that people in law enforcement deal with on a daily basis. I'm reminded of the "thin blue line" that separates society from chaos.

I saw things that haunt me to this day, and I did things I'm not proud of, but in the end I survived and tried to do the best I could. I've had to make decisions in split seconds and then have those decisions examined in excruciating detail later by people who have the luxury of time and hindsight. The results are not always as I would have liked, but I learned to accept them.

I believe in the jury system. It's not perfect, but who amongst us is? I do believe that people should serve on one if possible to see what's happening around them and how the system works/doesn't work.

I *think* Roger posted his comments, because writing and sharing allowed him to get some of the stress of dealing with an incident like the one he observed out of his system. Maybe I'm wrong, only Roger can really say, but allowing me to write does help me to digest what I lived through. For that I am most grateful.
 
localboymark":1rt6cofs said:
Like you I look forward to the day I can leave it all behind. Over the years "the job" has eaten away at me like a cancer.
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How sad, and how discouraging for society as a whole that your type of public service comes at such a high personal cost. Where are we going to find the next generation of citizens willing to make these kinds of sacrifices?

Warren
 
localboymark":3g0vxr8z said:
Dysfunction cannot be out lawed or legislated away. I can't tell you how many cases I've dealt with where we have the same people, with the same "issues" over and over and over...I still, however, have empathy for the children in these cases. They had no choice; no one gets to pick their parents. Unfortunately, in my experience they simply carry on the dysfunction they witness and grew up in, and the cycle repeats. To them it's "normal". Very sad.
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Well stated "localboymark"!

Years ago one of my close law enforcement friends approached me after a particularly "trying" call in which we both were involved in. One of the "parties" involved had let loose with a string of profanities and degrading comments to him, but the individuals demeaner totally changed towards us as we as medical personnel became involved. He was practically in tears as he stated how he was consistently verbally abused by those that he tried to help while we were most always appreciated for what we do.
We as firefighters/medics get into the same "homes?" as law enforcement officers do and it truly is sad how many of these children are being brought up in this world. Many citizens don't have a clue what is out there. My wife, who has been a nurse in various facets of nursing arenas for 36 years and is now an elementary school nurse, sees these children of dysfunctional families on a daily basis and it is no wonder that they are faced with severe learning disabilities.
When it comes to motor vehicle collisions, I can't count the number of times that individuals under the influence of alcohol and or drugs have killed and maimed other individuals and they've been too "stoned" to even be aware of what has happened. (Unfortunately, these same folks have had their licenses pulled from them but they are still out there driving and committing the same offenses repeatedly!)
I deeply appreciate the services that our law enforcement officers do for us. They truly do make sacrifices to try to make our lives better.

Thanks Guys!
 
Roger,
I have been called for jury service three times over the years. For me it is a very uncomfortable feeling to sit in judgement of another person. Both criminal cases I served on were very disturbing. One involved child sexual abuse. Very stressful to hear the testimony and know that the child probably will never lead a normal life. Best way to relieve that stress is a nice cruise or fishing on your C-Dory.
 
I have never been called for jury duty, but have always wanted to be on a jury.

While I understand how many professional people can be excused because of their job demands, those are some of the guys that I would want to have sitting in the jury box if I were on trial.

Nick
"Valkyrie"
 
I too have been on a jury and been a jury foreman/person, with much the same experiences.

Added to that were 30 years in the high school science classrooms, with 5 more working in an Independent Study Program with individual students with special needs of all kinds.

I'e seen the same, and come to the same conclusions.

There's just a part of society that is dysfunctional and has a whole collection of bad elements that lend to repeating the cycle. Violence, alcohol, other drugs, dishonesty, sexual and physical abuse, criminal activity, mental health issues, and the list goes on.

I was first struck with how alcohol and drug abuse and then, secondly, how family violence (and especially aggressive male violence to control women) tended to repeat themselves in generational cycles, but soon realized that the same cyclical process, but with good elements, goes on in good families that are functional and loving.

The problem is that breaking the dysfunctional cycle is very difficult and often impossible.

I can't tell you how many teenage girls I've tried to counsel out of violent and sexually abuse relationships with young "men", but their own self image is so low that the haven't the courage to act to reject the guy and make a better life for themselves.

It's great that we can discuss this non-boating topic with serious dignity and concern among C-Brat friends.

Joe. :thup
 
I have been summoned for jury duty a couple of times, but always was excused at the City's request. But now I would be able to go if called. I recently answered a jury questionnaire from the federal district court in Seattle, so I am sort of just waiting for that jury summons.

A couple of comments. As a defense lawyer in a drug case a long time ago (the defendant was a police officer's brother, I was flattered to get his recommendation), I did leave a lawyer on the jury - the defense was entrapment, and I figured a lawyer on the jury would be good to help the lay folks understand why the police can't create the crime. Didn't work, but I think I would do it again (Mark and Carl -no WAY would I have left a cop on the jury!). The other thing is that after the jury was discharged in every civil trial I would talk to those jurors who were willing to talk to me - and in every single case, I was amazed that the jurors had a completely different idea of what facts the case turned on than I and the opposing lawyer thought. We always looked at it legalistically, they always saw it pragmatically. Not entirely a bad system...
 
The personal impact of these situations can certainly be profound. It's been a long time, but I used to work in a state toxicology lab. Among other things, we ran lots of blood alcohols for various police agencies around the state. For several years there was a mandate to run blood alcohols on every traffic fatality in the state, regardless of circumstances.

Several years earlier I had been in the UW marching band. The director (music professor and principal trumpet of the Seattle Symphony) was highly respected and loved by his students. He also lived nearby, and his son was in Scouts with me and my brother.

I had been on the job for several years when I read about a tragic accident. The band director's daughter (9 years old) was one of several fatalities in a head-on collision. And of course, I anticipated receiving the samples a few days later.

Turns out the offending driver crossed the center line. The car immediately in front was able to get to the shoulder, leaving the next driver with no time to react. I believe it was a car full of girls coming back from camp.

As expected, the gas chromatograph indicated the other driver (fatality) was waaaay over the limit. But the hardest part was running the blood sample from the nine-year old. I don't recall ever meeting her, but I certainly felt for the rest of the family.

And yes, it does help to re-tell the story every once in awhile, rather than keeping it bottled up.

There's so much good in the world, and so many great people. And then we find ourselves in situations like these . . .

iggy
 
Hi Folks,

Thank you Roger. Everybody I have talked with did not really like doing Jury Duty, but were glad they did it.

I have never made it. I would get the summons, show up, and not get called.

Interesting side story. On Nantucket, which is a town and a county, the court sent out Warrants to all the people who did not show up for Jury Duty. Depending on the reason, they got dismissals to fines. The worst thing is that it made the local paper.

This guy does not think much about somebody shurking their duty. It is really easy to get off if you want to.

In one case they let me go on a "slipper Case" when I told them that I was an insurance salesman at one time. The plaintiff's lawyer looked guilty as hell. The other time was a child pornography case that was sent to the local court from another part of the state. When I told them that I had two young daughters, they let me go. It both cases I wasn't trying to get off, but I just told the truth.

Next time I will be 70 years old, and can choose not to serve if I so please.

Fred
 
I think I told this story before. Well it's not really a story, it's my real experience in the Mercer County, NJ jury pool. Potential jurors sat before the judge who interviewed anyone who felt they should be excused. As citizens stepped forward they gave the standard excuses, one after another. "I know the arresting officer". " I was a victim of this crime years ago", etc. Then one guy steps up and says "I supervise eight crews of carpet installers and if I'm not there, there will be chaos". The judge smiled and said that this excuse was not strictly valid but she would excuse the guy on the basis of his hutzpa alone. Next a women steps up and is asked for her excuse. "I'm having my carpet installed tomorrow".
 
Roger, that was an engaging thread. Thanks, everyone, for sharing your thoughts and experiences. This is a conversation that really grabbed me. It was personal, honest and I felt like I was at a table with you guys just listening and learning.
 
The only time that I was called for jury duty was in June '99. I was "on call" for the whole week and had to phone in daily to determine if I was to physically report in the next day. Although, I truly would have enjoyed the experience, I must admit that I was ecstatic that I never had to go in.......you see on the Wednesday of that week I took delivery on a brand new 16' C-Dory! Needless to say, I was able to "pick up" the new C-dory on Wednesday and spend Thurs., Fri., and Sat. of that week out on the boat as each evening, the courthouse informed me that I didn't need to come in the next day).

My wife, as some of you know, has been a nurse for 36 years and continues in this profession. A number of years ago she was summoned to jury duty and was involved in a case of sexual child abuse. Even though her background as a nurse includes time in intensive care pediatric units, labor and delivery, emergency departments, as well as "continuing education" classes on child abuse she was not excluded from the case. We were both very surprised that she was placed on the jury.
 
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