is the 22' right for me?

OK, I started this just a week or two ago, and have found an amazing amount of information here...honest, varied, funny...And I have adjusted my specs for the boat considerably (I plan to post my "final" boat specs soon and ask for comment...) All of you have been great...and I've found two Chesapeake owners who offer personal tours, and rides..etc. Great.

Still debating the Wallas. I definitely want heat. I now use my current boat until at least Christmas time....But Chesapeake summers are killers, and the comments about the Wallas..."takes 20 minutes to heat, and, equal to cool down.." would make the cabin an oven in August.. So, how about a Force 10 propane. I tried to do the "search" and got this long list which made no sense to me...Can I get some direction here on how to find info on Force 10 vs. Wallas, or other ideas? Where in the cabin would you mount a heater, for instance?

I have now gathered the support of my 18 year old daughter, and 12 year old daughter for the cdory (wow! 20 kts.! maybe we could at least tube, Dad!!!) Remember, my current boat is top at 10 kts.

So, comments?

tom...terraplane
 
Tom, I'm one of those on the Chesapeake. If I were to get heat for my boat, I'd get a portable propane heater that used a small cylinder and use the installed alcohol two burner to cook with. That unit heats the cabin up in a heartbeat. Either of the installed ones would be overkill for me.


Let the other Right Coasters (on the mid right coast) chime in and give you their nickel.

charlie
 
Hi, Tom,

One important factor to remember is outside venting, both for reasons of safety and minimizing condensation in the cabin.

You might go here: http://groups.msn.com/CDoryOwnersGroup/ ... toves.msnw

for some further information. There are multiple discussions on the subject. I'm sure this site has a bunch of information as well, but I'm just not as familiar with how to point you in the right direction.

Ken
 
No nickel, but I'll give 23 degrees -- that's cold to me, camped out on the trailer. As I and others have found, even the Wallas falls down when it's seriously cold, unless you take additional measures to get heat to the floor. 45 and up -- was never a problem, sub 30 -- problem. If you go to the cozy-heater, that's down low to begin with, and probably solves the cold waist-down-hot waist high problem of the Wallas setups. Fans, as mentioned previously, do the job to some degree, but could never supplant a heat source lower down. All that said -- the Wallas is mighty nice! If you're buying that year old dealer boat and it has it -- certainly don't turn that down, but if you're equipping, then maybe the alchohol/Force10 is the way to go and stick some money in the pocket for other goodies. The end of the line is heat -- no matter how you get there.
 
Tell your daughters that you will definitely be able to tube and even maybe water ski on two skis or one fat slalom! As to the stove/heater: think hard about whether you will really do that much cooking on the stove in the summertime. We rarely turn it on in the summer, preferring a cooler full of sandwiches, milk, cereal, etc. (Did I mention beer? Lots of beer!) Coffee in the early morning is about the only think we power up the wallas for when were on an overnight in warm weather. For heat, though, we love having the wallas in late fall, winter, and early spring. Kathy and I overnighted near Annapolis one New Years weekend when the temperature outside was below freezing, and we were toasty in our sleeping bag. Can't comment on the virtues of the propane rig, but I love that wallas.
Cheers,
 
Hey it’s great to have you answer back to.
I make a lot of use out of my old propane Force-10. It actually heats the floor around it, with no fan down there. I have it very low in the cabin. As you may know the Force-10 uses no electricity, and is as quiet as a single-gas-burner with some nice warm glow to boot.
Maintenance has amounted to pulling off its base-assembly, removing and cleaning the jet… that’s it! I do this twice a year, since being in the “far north” I use it in summer to. For cooking purposes, we prefer to use a portable 2-buner camp stove. (LPG) (Them things are great performers) and the cook likes them! Going to switch to a new 2-burner electric this summer for the cooking, see if we like it better, since I always have my ‘gen along all the time anyway. I’ll post what I just picked up at my store (Costco) lol One could use it for a cabin heater to! Super compact and very efficient!
 
I have the Force 10 Cozy Cabin with forced air circulating fans and a three burner Wedgewood propane stove. The first provides tons of winter heating capacity and the second room to cook both in winter or summer without the Wallas delay or the summer overheat problem. I also installed Fire, Propane, and Carbon Monoxide alarms as well as a through roof vent for the cooking odors and heat. You can see the installation here:

Force_10_Cozy_Cabin_Heater_in_Sea_Wolf.jpg

There's loads of other discussion about these alternatives if you use the search engines.

Let me know if you have questions about my set up. Good Luck! Joe.
 
To each their own on the heater, I guess. I'm a right-coaster on the Chesapeake who really likes the Wallas. When I was looking at options, the dealer about had me convinced that over-heating from the Wallas stove would just be too much in our hot, humid summers. Answers to my queries on this pub convinced me otherwise, and I'm glad I got it.

We're still new at this, but used the Wallas this summer in July and August and didn't find that it a problem. As others pointed out, many folks use a grill off the back anyway. Used the heater over the last few weeks and was very comfortable. Given the ease of use, dealer installation, venting issues, and all the rest, the Wallas is pretty convenient! On the other hand, if you like to tinker and have the time, there are clearly other options that work equally well and may be cheaper.

John
on the Lizzie Ann
 
I purchased my 22' CD new at the factorywithout an engine in 1983. Towed it to Alaska and installed a 1 year old 115 Johnson that I had purchased for another purpose. The 22' handled the motor just fine and i ran it for 15 years. The only negative was from prop torque which rolled the boat to the side at higher speeds. That did not happen often as I had to keep the throttle back due to rough water.
I replaced the 115 with a 90 HP Honda. It actually handles the boat better than the old motor and the best thing is the Honda uses 1/3 the fuel to do the same work.
At the factory Mr. Toland (Marks dad), the boat designer, told me that he designed the 22' CD to cruise at 17 mph. I have driven my boat easily 3000 miles since I have owned it and 17 mph is right on for a comfortable ride in any kind of sea.
Anyone have a good deal on a late model 25' CD.???
 
John -
Your observations about the Wallas and summer heating exactly match ours - no problem, front window and hatch open, bow to the breeze on an anchor, no sweatski. Of course, we're not in Key West in August. Also, like your conclusion that for those who like to tinker there could be cheaper (or even better) solutions.
By the way, you sure have a fine little town. We happened, by dumb luck, to land in Chestertown a few years back just in time for the Tea Party. Being a little boat, they could put us on the dock - at the very outside. What a treat! And your townsfolk were as nice and friendly as any we've met anywhere. When is the Tea Party in 2005? We might be able to get there again.
 
Thanks for the nice words about Chestertown, El and Bill. We like it too! The Tea Party is always at the end of May - I'll check with the town this week to see what the exact dates are and post them. For any in the area who are interested, it's a great little festival - you can check it out at:
http://www.chestertownteaparty.com/

If you can make it out here, by all means let us know. Would be great to meet up. And who knows, maybe some other C-Dory owners will feel like making it a party!
 
John -
Maybe you could organize a Chestertown Gathering for Chesapeake C-Dory folks? Hmmm -- how's that for winter musing, and volunteering someone else? Anyway, if it isn't too busy a time in your harbor, it might be a marvelous time to have a group together and enjoy the festivities of Chestertown. Hmmm ...
 
Count us in for a Chestertown rendezvous, if we're around. John, I was up your way this summer, as the relief mate on the skipjack "Sigsbee" out of Baltimore. El and Bill are right--Chestertown is as nice from the water as it is from land. I just looked at Snowdon, up on her lift--she's ready to go, anytime.
 
Tom, I too live on the Bay, directly across from you on the western side, on a clear day I can see your town . I am very seriously considering a 22. I have blue sunbrella on my bimin now, why unlucky? Is it Chessie? Anyhow< I visited Cutter Marine last week. They are getting ready for the boat show. Are you interested in going?
 
Terraplane, do a google search for "NS-2800". This is a diesel heater made by TOYOTOMI. The same company that makes the KERO-SUN kerosene heaters. The NS-2800 is safely exhausted to the cabin exterior, cycles with a thermostat and allows you to pipe the hot air anywhere with two to four outlets. The V-birth and the floor are hard to heat with the wallas. For ventilation the blower can be ran without the heater. The wallas costs $2250. The Toyotomi costs $930 and seems worth consideration. Do another search for all-around-the-house. (with the dashes) They are one distributer I found. The NS-2700 would be nice also. When I inquired they said the NS-2800 would replace the NS-2700. I think the Origo stove for cooking and the Toyotomi for heat when needed would make a nice setup.
 
Terraplane-
:idea If you decide on a HONDA, you may want to consider their engine water guage option to monitor the engine's water pressure. I think it gives me a means of fine tuning the engine trim by maximizing the press. at any given speed as a side benefit. I believe it is abt a $ 50 option. If it saves one water pump.... from one of those 'plastic bag' mines that you can run into along this coastal bay area, it is well worth the investment.

I, too, went through what you are doing. I took a sea trial at Cutter on both the 22' & 25' CD. This may help you get the 'feel' for what you are trying to get into. I did and ended up with the CD25 and powered it here in Norfolk with 2x 90s.

I also went with the advise of this wonderful group and added the Wallas. I have used it when working with installation projects while on the dry storage work rack with 34 degrees outside and light shirt inside. I ditto all the remarks about it. There is much information on this site and on the C-Dogs site to be gleaned.

I have added some Aqua Matt decking to the main cabin floor and placed an indoor/outdoor carpet on top of it. This proved very comfortable on the feet. The left over pieces from the last box was placed in the aft bilge to give some cushion to my secondary anchor and rode. I guess this is just a 'red wheel' in the grand scheme of things, but it does seem to decrease the sound from the lower bay chop and minimizes any engine vibrations transmitted through the bottom, IMO.

Welcome to the CD world and if schedules match, I would like to show you the 25, Sea Angel, and the lower parts of this 'bay'. Maybe I, too, could make a run north in the spring for a gathering. It would be great to find another Norfolk/ Virginia Beach area CD; but, at last there are none, yet. If all the lookers at the local docks and marina are any indication this could change in a short while and then I could get more done on my projects..... This is NOT a complaint.... JUST a BRAG! I love this boat!
:love

73s
 
Well, after all the input, i thought i'd post our latest description of the cd22 we would like to have...
Our wooden trawler is on the block, and with a good broker, so fingers crossed.

Here is where we stand right now.

CD 22, green, 90 honda, shore power and charger, two elec wipers, and one manual, no refrig...storage, extra interior lights and outlets, wallas stove/heater, floorboards in cockpit, barber chair, tall cabin option, swim platform, windlass..gypsy,600;, engine water gauge, camper back.

Whaddaya think?

tom/ terraplane
 
Tom, never seen 3 wipers on a CD 22. The don't put one on the center window (I don't think), particularly if the window opens for ventilation. I'd get that for sure! I think you'll find you spend most of your time looking out the window over the helm and your navigator out of the port side front one. Congratulations and Happy New Year.

charlie
 
As you can see, this is a process of figuring out the situation. Thanks for the window comment.
Any other ideas. I forgot to list a second bilge pump to be included.

tom/terraplane
 
Tom and Charlie,

I installed a third manual wiper on the center window of my 1991 22 cruiser. The pivot/handle is located at the upper right corner of the window. I had removed the shelf as I was always hitting my head on it.

In my opinion, it was worth the effort to install the wiper.
 
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