Is AIS in the house?

H

hardee

New member
Spent not nearly enough time at the SBS-08 and came away with a new appreciation for AIS (Automated Identification System, I believe) the stand-alone receiver will work with a VHF antenna splitter, and will display larger, maybe faster, commercial traffic around you on your chart potter.
Wondering if there are C-Brats using these devices already. I am thinking only of the receiver system, not the transponder. Much less $$$.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Harvey,

Haven't convinced myself yet to spend the $1000-$1300 for more gizmos on the screen. I'm sure they would be helpful but I'd end up watching the screen more and out the windows less.

See www.shinemicro.com to see a live display and compare units. Shine Micro owner Mark Johnson goes to our Church and I believe invented the AIS system. The class B units that receive and broadcast a AIS signal are not yet approved in this country.

Any luck on the Dinghy search?
 
There are some very cheap units (about $200)--and it is probably worth while buying one of those, if you are in crowded areas with high incidence of low visability--like the PNW. If the B are not approved by May, I will buy one of these for our trip to the PNW this summer.

I have played with several units, but held off bying one, waiting for the Class B transciever, which as Roger says held up in the FCC for at least 6 months. (Politics having to do with MARtel's radio license on channel 87B [87B and 88B are assigned to AIS]?). The Coast Guard has recommended its release.

I have used both recievers and the class A transcievers on some international voyaging boats. Definately worth the $$, and a real suppliment to Radar.

From the Coast Guard web site:

All ships of 300 gross tonnage and upwards engaged on international voyages and cargo ships of 500 gross tonnage and upwards not engaged on international voyages and passenger ships irrespective of size shall be fitted with AIS,

A Class A AIS unit broadcasts the following information every 2 to 10 seconds while underway, and every 3 minutes while at anchor at a power level of 12.5 watts. The information broadcast includes:

MMSI number - unique referenceable identification
Navigation status - not only are "at anchor" and "under way using engine" currently defined, but "not under command" is also currently defined.
Rate of turn - right or left, 0 to 720 degrees per minute
Speed over ground - 1/10 knot resolution from 0 to 102 knots.
Position accuracy - differential GPS or other and an indication if RAIM processing is being used
Longitude - to 1/10000 minute and Latitude - to 1/10000 minute
Course over ground - relative to true north to 1/10th degree
True Heading - 0 to 359 degrees derived from gyro input
Time stamp - The universal time to nearest second that this information was generated
In addition, the Class A AIS unit broadcasts the following information every 6 minutes:

MMSI number - same unique identification used above, links the data above to described vessel
IMO number - unique referenceable identification (related to ship's construction)
Radio call sign - international call sign assigned to vessel, often used on voice radio
Name - Name of ship, 20 characters are provided
Type of ship/cargo - there is a table of possibilities that are available
Dimensions of ship - to nearest meter
Location on ship where reference point for position reports is located
Type of position fixing device - various options from differential GPS to undefined
Draught of ship - 1/10 meter to 25.5 meters [note "air-draught" is not provided]
Destination - 20 characters are provided
Estimated time of Arrival at destination - month, day, hour, and minute in UTC

Class BShipborne mobile equipment provides facilities not necessarily in full accord with IMO AIS carriage requirements. IEC has begun work on a Class B certification standard, which should be completed by 2003. The Class B is nearly identical to the Class A, except the Class B:

Has a reporting rate less than a Class A (e.g. every 30 sec. when under 14 knots, as opposed to every 10 sec. for Class A)

Does not transmit the vessel’s IMO number or call sign
Does not transmit ETA or destination

Does not transmit navigational status

Is only required to receive, not transmit, text safety messages

Is only required to receive, not transmit, application identifiers (binary messages)

Does not transmit rate of turn information

Does not transmit maximum present static draught

Search and Rescue AircraftAircraft mobile equipment, normally reporting every ten seconds.

Aids to NavigationShore-based station providing location of an aid to navigation. Normally reports every three minutes. This may eventually replace the racon.

AIS base station.
Shore-based station providing text messages, time synchronization, meteorological or hydrological information, navigation information, or position of other vessels. Normally reports every ten seconds.


I would argue for a separate antenna, with a soldered connection to the PL259--these seem to give a significantly longer range.

Read all about it at: http://www.panbo.com/archives/cat_ais.html
 
I just looked at the live data on the SHINEMICRO site and only saw two vessels in the Ches Bay! None in the Potomac River. So it looks like it would be overkill for us here. We'll keep it in mind though.

Lots of action in Puget Sound and down South in Cal and up North here around NYC.

Charlie
 
I have it and use it on my boat. No, the Cumberland River does not have busy sea ports, but do have the big tugs pushing barges 3x4 at time full of coal, sand or other items. The river is very, very sharp in several of the tight turns. This allows the beacon to be picked up miles before we really need to pass or pass bye each other. It is a great safety aid, even on very clear, bright sunny days. With this I can "see" the barges when straight line very close, but river miles sometimes 2-10 miles away in some of the horseshoe turns. What you do not want to happen is to be traveling at about 20 knots, already in a tight turn due to the narrow channel, and whammy.... the river disappeared and turned an interesting barge color...and he is moving at 6-7 knots and no way in the world he can make any adjustments at all due to the tight turns, currents, winds, and load... so...we use to just freak and pray, and take our best dodging action. Now, we contact the barge by name, and let him know we are in the area, and find out where he would like us to pass. Much more professional, much safer, and much easier on the crew to ease around knowing the wall is coming. I was not sure I would like the money I spent on it. But, even in the rivers in the down town Nashville area, you can "see" how active each tug is...if they are sitting still, or moving...or starting to move. I guess now that I have had it, it is one of those things like radar I never had before and thought big deal... Then, a few days/nights in the fog, or just real dark nights when that chart may be off about 1/4 mile in a 1/8 mile wide river turn...and you really need the purple lines to stay between. Rock win, boats loose. So, yes I am glad I have it. Now, as to figure out how to turn off some of the alarms. It is cool when it starts flashing the little gray triangle when courses are going to intersect. But, the Captains have to turn the units on...and you feel cheated when you see them...but their triangle is not working. :sad :thdown
 
I just checked the san juans and none of the ferry show up in port or on the water, so thats useless. many of the ferries on the sound showed up so maybe they just dont have it on. The good thing is that the game wardan has one on his boat that info is worth the price alone :lol:
 
Tom, the ferries are all equipped, and they don't have an option to "turn it off". If you're not seeing it on one of the online AIS viewers, it probably just means the shore-based receiver doesn't have a line-of-sight to the ferry.

Or maybe the ferry just wasn't there...them Washington State Ferry's been havin' trouble of late. :-)

I've written a lot about AIS over at Navagear. I was going to make it my mission at the boat show today to see how cheaply I could get AIS reception added to my boat.

Actually, I HAD it working on my boat. Fred Pot of SeaCas saw our AIS coverage on Navagear, and provided us with a loaner unit to play with. We got it hooked up, we saw the ferries at Edmonds and Kingston, and we decided to get the boat outside the breakwater and see what the view up Admiralty Inlet looked like. Started the engine, and...it never worked again. I had to return it to Fred Pot, and for SOME reason he hasn't seen fit to give me a new one! :-) Can't imagine why not...

His tech said it was damaged by a voltage spike, probably during engine start up. This is frustrating...ALL the electronics manufacturers tell you to turn everything off while starting the engine, but realistically, I'll bet we all break that rule. I do. All the time. Well, some components may need extra protection.

I don't want to suggest that the SeaCas products aren't high quality, by the way; that isn't the impression I get. I suspect I just got a bad one.
 
Looking at the SJI now, I see the Sealth just north of Lopez, the Kaleetan south of Eastsound, the Elwa at the Anacortes terminal, and the Hiyu apparently at a WSF depot in Anacortes.
 
Only had one shot at playing with an AIS system and that convinced me.
Left the dock at Cornet bay with Les and the screen immediately warned us of a tug and barge under the Deception pass Brige which was hidden from us by the island.
No problem in the CAVU conditions that day but it would have avoided an interesting nose to nose around the corner in fog.
New boat will have one.

Merv
 
Merv, I don't know what the official C-Brats policy is, but I for one hope you stick around even when you're cruising on your new boat. :-)
 
Thanks guys.
The way I look at it is a C-Brat is a C-Brat and we "resemble that" remark.
Doesn't matter what we are driving today, we are a group of like minded individuals and would never give up the friendships formed on this group. We have many fond memories of Kingfisher (I) and never intended to move up again in size but reality set in and if we are to go all the places we want to go then somethinging had to change. We don't have time to do it 20 years from now.
Thanks also to all of you who made the new owners of Kingfisher really welcome at the CBGT. We really missed being there but the flu bug laid us low.

Tim, I have not forgotten your interest in the deck panels. I had to hang on to them until after the sale as I had some potential buyers who preferred them to Mahogany !! I will PM you.

Our CD on steroids should arrive any day now and we are really happy that Les will be doing his usual stellar job of rigging. Sorry that his services will be lost to C-Dory but that is not for me to comment.

So if any of you out there this year wonder why some damned fool in an RS 246 comes screaming across the water to wave at you and chat, just remember it's a C-Brat with withdrawal symptoms !!

The real good news is that we are finding that the Rossy Owners group "feels" just like the C-Brats. Same kinds of ideas, same sharing of helpful suggestions and, yes, even some familiar faces.

C-ya'll

Merv & Kathy
 
In trying to find out if they make an USB AIS receiver, I found out that NMEA 2000 is a bus type data system, quite different from NMEA 0183. The intent is to eliminate all those incompatible proprietary busses (SeaTalk for example,) and go to a standard, with common hardware. I found a presentation (takes Power Point) Here: NMEA 2000 vs 0183

I guess NMEA 2000 isn't NMEA 0183 at a faster speed?

A puzzled Boris
 
Merv...Howdie. I may just get back out that way soon. Would love to return the favor of 1st voage photos for/to you....and that is RF246. (Rosborough Fiberglass)

I guess all of us who have had 1 or 3 C-Dory boats, but may no longer just all need to pool our funds and buy portions of one....and say leave it in Oak Harbor as to have something there during our visits with Kathy, Les, Dusty, Carl....and the kids.

AIS = Good.

Byrdman
 
I hate to put this hijacked thread back on the subject--but last night I looked up the various costs and available AIS recievers. RayMarine plug and play unit is about $850. The cheapest is the Milltec single channel at a time (it scans between the two AIS channels) starts at $189. It comes with a 12 volt power cable and a RS232 seriel cable. The 162 comes as a dual channel reciever, and the 162G is a dual channel reciever with a GPS reciever. These all come with a CD which has some software and a shareware version of "SeaClear". But you do have to either have a splitter for the VHF antenna or a second VHF antenna, plus cables to adapt the seriel to USB interphase. So..if you want to DIY you probably can get a AIS system up and running on your laptop for somewhere North of $300.

To my knowlege, Garmin has not fully developed their AIS system, althuogh the last several years units have had an AIS menue, it is barely functional, and takes some "work arounds". There are a few folks who have it working.

There is also a SeaCAS Safepassage 100 unit, which starts at about $625 for the basic dual frequency reciever on up to the SeaCAS Safepassage 300 with the VHF antenna, and GPS for a little over $1000. This also puts out a NMEA 0183 stream of data. One has to remember that the baud rate of the AIS data is very high and the chart plotter has to be set to recieve this NMEA data rate of 38,400 vs the "normal" rate of 4800 baud.

Another option, which seems cheaper and easier, but I have not tried it is the Sitex AIS 100 black box which uses the same NASA AIS engine as the Milltec and costs $289. This will interphase with many of the Sitex chart plotters from the GSP 95CP ($368) on up thru 5", 7", 11" and 15" chart plotters (15" starts at $2000). All of these are C map plotters and will allow the AIS direct connection and display, and most of them also allow Fishfinder, and Radar input. The cheapest AIS and Chart plotter would come to $ 657 and all would require a VHF antenna. Or there is a "AIS radar" for $529 which requires GPS NMEA 0183 and a VHF radio antenna input. This is a monochrome screen with your boat in the center, and theother AIS targets displacyed in their relationships on the screen, with no plotter. All of these complete units are substantially less expensive that just the AIS box which RayMarine sells to plug and play into their E or C series of chart plotters.
 
One of the problems with any analysis of emergent electronic technologies is that by the time you have done it, it will be out of date. I get a strong feeling that the AIS world is going to be defined by forces far greater than us mere, pleasure seeking mortals wanting nice toys and even improved safety on the water.

As far as I am concerned I came, I saw and I bought.
I spend a lot of time dinking around the Puget Sound traffic lanes, often in company with colleagues less well equipped and I will pay a few bucks for the added safety margin. Not perfect, but... call me paranoid if you will. I find it better (as long as the red bucket has enough pennies) to get on with life and fit whatever makes you feel comfortable. I spend all my working life making (anal)lytical business decisions based on rate of return over 15 - 25 years and it took a long time for me to realise that this had absolutely nothing to do with my real world life where I do not have to satisfy my shareholders (other than the admiral) and I certainly have less probability of making the 25 years from now scenario where it breaks even.
This is supposed to be about fun.

Merv
 
Thank you Dr. Bob for the exacting information. And to the rest for their interest and input. Thanks, Roger (Dreamer) for the link to the live AIS. I put that question out and then have not been able to get back here, but it sure looks like there is interest and it appears that it could be more tool than toy, of course that depends on the conditions that you are out in.

I spent quit a bit of time with the folks a SeaCAS, and it seems like a good system. For those of us with RayMarine, (RM), if we have anything plugged into the RM system, (like my Azimuth compass), the RM only has one input port and would require a bus that would allow multiple inputs. Since the VHF, Radar, Auto Pilot, and compass are all plugged into the RM, a bus bar input would be required. Even with the RM AIS from what I could gather there, a bus bar input would be necessary. Their (RM) guys recommended an antenna splitter, Which isn't my favorite way to go but I already have 2 antennas and need to add a third for a redundant VHF. I didn't have much luck with getting a lot of info from the RM guys at SBS, but SeaCAS was very helpful. Their entry level, SafePassage 100 is entirely adequate since I already have GPS input and chartplotter. With the bus, Antenna splitter, cable and Antenna it will come it at close to $1000. Might not have it by Friday Harbor :cry but it will be on the need list, along with a dingy and second anchor. :smile Obviously it is a need based on safety, right? :xnaughty

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
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