I just HATE drawing welfare. I'd really rather have a job

[starcrafttom]

in Montana if you have a sheep in the bed of your truck you must have a chaperone in the cab?

thats for the safety of the sheep, cant trust those Montana boys at all.

 

[dotnmarty]

Charlie, How about this one?

FLYTIGHT?

WHY THE HECK WOULD ONE WANT TO KEEP THEM IN? WOULDN'T THAT HURT?:disgust :cry

I didn't know flys have feelings! See you learn something everyday on this site. eace:

 

[CTYankee]

I must say, I find most of these discussions pointless. We should all just get along and try to help each other as much as possible...rich or poor, advantaged or disadvantaged. But... I LOVED Roger (fishtales) post. I have been to too many funerals this year. I'd like to start over!

Dun

 

[dotnmarty]

OK. Sorry for my contribution to anyones unhappiness. Sometimes I just get carried away.

 

[BrentB]

Modern Man

Please keep the following link for your records in case your recipient misplaces it. The link will expire in 7 days.

Link: http://www.yousendit.com/download/QRiFo96ckY95TA%3D%3D

 

[rogerbum]

Hi Roger my good friend, you are bright enough to know you can find any data on the internet you want to back up your argument.

Yes, I am. I am also bright enough to know that if I personally have not studied a problem or topic that I best defer to experts who have. When you find some of them here at the C-brats, you'll generally find that the topic is about BOATs, and not about social issues. If you look at data supplied by social scientists who have actually tracked people in the welfare system OR even data from the office of management and budget, you'll find that at least some if not many of those on welfare at any given time are, in general not people who are simply lazy and that in fact a number of people leave the welfare roles for work.

If you look at data supplied by activist groups for the un-employed or homeless, you will find their data is going to be skewed in their favor. If you want to argue for the other side, you find other stats. It’s easy on the internet.

I am going to go out on a limb because I have not checked, but I am willing to bet that if you look at the census data, it will not be the same as the data you linked to. This is based entirely on knowing you and your passion for those that you consider downtrodden.

No you have not.

You let your feelings and heart get ahead of your head.

And the data/evidence you have for that statement is...? Your feelings or belief? What data do you think I have looked at? What data do you KNOW I have looked at? As you know, I am a scientist by profession and my life (in general) is fairly data driven. AND as I said above, when I have not personally studied a given area, I defer to experts who have.

Now lets look at the following statement by you

“it's more and more difficult for the poorly educated to make a livable wage”

Which policy is more likely to help the people you want to in the above quote?
[\QUOTE]
Well... we could start with a long overdue increase in the minimum wage. We could also think about a large number of measures to make health care more readily available at a reasonable price. We could also look at actually fully funding education to the level at which our best and brightest chose teaching as a viable career.... I could go on.... but you might notice I did not suggest any of the items on your list below.

1 Take more money from the producers, those of us working our buts off and give it to the poorly educated and in effect telling those thinking of dropping out of school, “an education is not important because uncle will take care of you, if you fail at life”

or

2 telling them if you drop out of school, you will more than likely fail in life, if you find employment it will probably be at a wage that will not support a family and maybe not even yourself, you may be homeless, you may go hungry and it may be hard to get health care. If you do not have the ambition or will to make it in life, there is no one going to carry you.

You tell me who has more caring for the people you claim to be concerned about? I will argue that it is the latter. I know that sounds harsh and you always have to make exceptions, but 5, 10, 20 million or however many million exceptions you want to use are too many.

In an earlier post I challenged someone to tell me where my thinking was wrong and I will challenge you to do the same. Think about what I said and I quote myself. “You let your feelings and heart get ahead of your head.”

________
Dave

Now remeber Dave (and I DO like you) it's you who is personally calling me out. So.....

For a guy who freely admits that "I am going to go out on a limb because I have not checked..." I'd have to ask - who is letting their feelings get ahead of their head? Show me a reliable source of non-biased data that indicates that the majority of welfare recipients would rather accept welfare than work at a job that pays a liveable wage and I will accept all of your statements above and allow you to push me off the dock at a future C-brats gathering. If you can't, I get to do the pushing... is it a bet?

For fairness, lets set up a system by which the "reliable source of non-biased data" is as judged by others - how about an equal number of C-brats who are avowed left wing, democrats and an avowed right-wing republicans with Tyboo Mike as the tie breaker? If neither of us wins, we both jump off the dock a drink beer later. Yes, I think that the right order as drinking beer first might make the return to the dock dangerous... :lol:

 

[TyBoo]

• • • • • • • • • • 

 

[Larry Q]

TyBoo
How did you get that video of me looking out the window!

 

[TyBoo]

Well, somebody has to keep an eye on these guys. I am just thankful that you are willing!

 

[starcrafttom]

if you guys buy the beer we can skip the judges ruling and I will throw you both off the pier.

 

[oldgrowth]

You guys that are worried about Roger and I hurting each others feelings to the point of not being healed, do not know Roger or me very well. This will be a spirited debate but we will not attack each other personally. This debate will be about ideas (philosophy), not us. I would not get involved in this, if I thought Roger was not capable of handling it.

Roger – I would be thrilled to buy you a beer and even let you push me off the dock, after I win this debate.

Now it will take me a little time, because I have not had the formal education you have. I am a slow reader and a slow thinker, and as most of you know, I am a school drop out (that means prior to high school) and of course as you already know I am also a little slow and dense.

Just so I do not have to do anymore reading than necessary, I will use your words and the study you linked to for the majority of my argument with a bit of common sense and logic thrown in. If you throw in other studies, that means I will have to read them also, which could drag this out. See above, (I am a slow reader)

Roger – even after you loose, I will let you say you won and even acknowledge that you won if you need it. I have enough faith in myself and my beliefs, that nothing will change in my life either way. I do not want to put a good friend in a position where his core beliefs are shattered and cause the devastation of his self worth, even if they are wrong. I would rather it be a gradual progression until, all of a sudden a light cones on and you can see the light.

You pick the judges if you want to. They can all be “avowed left wing, democrats” as you call them. I do not want “avowed right-wing republicans” as you call them for my judges. I would prefer judges that can look at the facts and arguments as presented and make a decision based on common sense and logic.

You do know what the debate is, because your last post left some doubt in my mind?

You want to create more rules or just fire the next shot, or do you want me to?

Good luck.
________
Dave

 

[Anonymous]

Wow guys, I thought we were the only ones that experienced deep depression in the winter. Or have you all moved to Alaska with out my knowing it?
Being the social predator that I am , I will step up and call a spade a spade! No, No, No i'm not talking about the dirt bags who don't work or single Moms or whatever. If this post is gonna get touchy feeley and all then I should be all upset cause someone brought Rednecks into it. No I am not actually a Red Neck but if you remember, I did use the Redneck analogy in a couple recent post! Well, thats it, i've had it and by the way if you push me off the pier I will probably break my legs cause the water is pretty hard around here. Hey that could be the answer, break my legs and while I'm off from work I can spend hours on this site taking up the cause of all those unrepresented groups mentioned earlier. They could all join up and once they realized what a great guy I am for introducing them to this great site, they would probably support my run for the presidency. Then I could take up the plight of all the worlds impoverished bla,bla, bla.
:sad Whew, we kind of got off track there, but I am back with it again. Don't you just love this section of the site. I wonder why no one brought Broke Back Mountain into this post, we sure covered everything else.
Good night to all in Dorydom. :wink Mike on Huda Thunkit

 

[starcrafttom]

"I wonder why no one brought Broke Back Mountain into this post, we sure covered everything else"

Because they all work and on average make more money then the general population. And getting back to my class soapbox, gays are not a class. Ones sexual choices (if it is one) are not the base for a class or rights. We all have the same rights in this country and those rights can not be taken away for any reason including sexual choices, any choices and they are a lot of them. Its like not giving some one a job for being a boater, what you do on your own time is your business.

P.s. I still think we can get back to fishing faster if I throw you both off the pier before the argument.

 

[dotnmarty]

SUSAN!!! He's back on the machine again! As for you Alasgun Mike, It's not February yet so go back to sleep. Just kiddiing. I've been thinking about it (yes, really thinking) maybe if we had more 'pointless discussion' about things we might end up like Roger and Dave-disagreeing with a fundamental mutual respect. That might not be the conclusion we wished for- it might be even better. eace:

 

[Sneaks]

Announcement: Something's got to give....

You asked for it, Mike. Clearly this thread fulfills your 9/18 assignment in home page announcements.

:beer :beer :moon

I can't wait for your next announcement....

Don

 

[james]

I am always interested in how people define "livable wage".

That seems to be a catch word that is thrown around a lot.


James

 

[BrentB]

Subject: At Last, agreement in the Middle East!


A U.S. Marine squad was marching north of Fallujah when they came upon
an Iraqi terrorist, badly injured and unconscious. On the opposite side
of the road was an American Marine in a similar but less serious state.
The Marine was conscious and alert and as first aid was given to both
men, the squad leader asked the injured Marine what had happened.
The Marine reported, "I was heavily armed and moving north along the
highway here, and coming south was a heavily armed insurgent.
We saw each other and both took cover in the ditches along the road.
I yelled to him that Saddam Hussein is a miserable, lowlife scumbag,
and
he yelled back that Ted Kennedy is a good-for-nothing, fat, left wing
liberal drunk." "So I said that, Osama Bin Ladin dresses and acts like
a
frigid, mean-spirited lesbian! He retaliated by yelling, Oh yeah? Well,
so does Hillary Clinton!"
"And, there we were, in the middle of the road, shaking hands, when a
truck hit us"

 

[Captains Cat]

Right on James! The way I live, it's a great big bunch more than the minimum.... :shock: I don't see how some folks live on what they DO get, and certainly not on "minimum" wage, not an individual and most assuredly not a family...

And on edit (Brent you got me while I was typing): A great peace story, at least something we can all agree on.... :lol: Thanks Brent..

Charlie

 

[dotnmarty]

I learned long ago that, if it doesn't fit in my sea bag, I probably don't need it. Well, it's full. So long.

 

[Sea Wolf]

I learned long ago that, if it doesn't fit in my sea bag, I probably don't need it. Well, it's full. So long.

Marty-

I hope you're referring just to this discussion, not anything greater, like the C-Brats as a whole!

Joe.