I hate my transom

[Kushtaka]

I want to redo it to fit my needs and would like some sage wisdom.

I've done my searching, and found info relevant to individual aspects of what I want, but not exactly what I'm looking for.

My transom now holds:

1 2003 Honda BF90

1 2011 Tohatsu 9.8 kicker on a garelick mount (starboard, way over by the side, waaaay cumbersome)

2x trim tabs. They are big. 16-18" (I can't remember which at the moment)

1x useless transducer for my useless "fish finder." (to be replaced). Mounted between starboard trim tab and outboard.


The issues I have with this setup are:

1. My boat has a very noticeable list to starboard with the kicker mounted so far over. Even with a full water tank, there is a list. When I'm at the helm solo, it's worse. With 2-3 people on the port settee balance is good. With one (normal configuration) it lists starboard pretty far. Moreover getting to the garelick mount, and lowering the kicker involves suspending yourself farther overboard than I'd like. Deploying/starting the motor and then operating the tiller so far aft, and in front of the lazarette is nothing I'd like to do in rough water if my main died on me.

2. I don't think I need a transducer on the transom.

3. My big trim tabs are AWESOME, and make my boat ride well in most conditions (except steep, short period 3-5' following seas, but that's where the hull type least comfortable, albeit safe) and balance out any problems I have with listing (above). They also block alternate locations for the kicker next to the main. They also seem to have been installed with (GASP!) silicon. I sure hope they haven't rotted anything out. They present a clearance issue for kicker install next to the main.


What I'd like to have when I'm done:

1. I'd like to be able to operate the kicker from either the helm (i.e. tied into the main steering) OR the tiller handle if main steering fails (yes, hydraulic steering is reliable, but it fails). Is there a quick disconnect for coupling/uncoupling main/hydraulic steering?

I'll also probably move the kicker more amidships, and probably to the port side of the main. This to reduce overall list, and somewhat balance the pilot at the helm, which is really the only constant load.

It looks like some have used a small fixed motor mount to clear the trim tabs. Is that the way to go? Is there a model someone can recommend? Are there other fixes?

2. Has anyone tried a sealed mineral oil bath in the drain well? It's gotta work. I'm SURE it will work. Why wouldn't it? I've seen this discussed here a little, but it looks like there is no wood core in the drain well. I have a rule bilge pump in there now. I've been considering glassing in a portion to hold the transducer in a sealed mineral oil bath.

3. Trim tabs stay big and wonderful, but they will probably come off temporarily while screw holes are assessed for rot, and re- installed with either overdrilled/epoxied holes or 5200. I've overdrilled most of my stuff, but the 5200 routine seems to be standard for penetrations of cored material on my 22 (just to be sure, when I installed my anchor locker drain I did both, maybe that should be what the transom gets?)

FINALLY, I'd like to add a swim step on the port side, and convert the port lazarette into a seat. One big reason for this is to load my two fairly large dogs into the dinghy. They just don't like being lifted over the side. I'm thinking up onto the seat, then into the dinghy via the swim step would be an easy sell with a couple pieces of beef jerky. The other reason is that the cockpit really has no seating, and we hardly seem to use that lazarette. Anyone done this conversion?

Aside from a discussion of the various decisions that make up this plan, I'm very interested in whether I'm missing something, or will wish I had thought of something sooner, before I start the project.

This was long winded and arguably could have been broken up into smaller threads, but I want to keep the big picture in sight! At some point I'll add some pics to my profile. That would probably have saved about a thousand words.

 

[Spike]

You know just the other day I stepped out of the shower and caught sight of myself in a full length mirror. I don't much care for my transom either!

 

[starcrafttom]

Be glad you have a transom. My pants just fall off for lack of a transom. Its getting worse every year. I will have to switch to suspenders soon.

back tot he problem of the poster.
Yes you can move the kicker to a small mount that will attach to the splash well and raise the kicker up so it will clear the trim tabs. I had one on my 22 and it worked out great. The kicker and the main where attached with a rod that runs from the front of the both units. This is the one you want. There is another brand that mounts on the back of the units but you can not reach it to connect and disconnect from in side the boat. With a front mount one you can. It has a fast disconnet, just takes a second.

If you look at my old albums of my 22 you will see all the things you are taking about. Swim step, tabs, kicker.

what is wrong with the transom mounted transducer? All my boats have been mounted that way. If you are having problems with the unit it could be 1) user error. you need to learn how to adjust it. Don't rely on the auto setting. 2) mounting or placement. What is in front of it for the first 5 to 10 ft? Is it set in the water far enough? to far? 3) is the unit good? they do burn out. Is it just the standard p66? Not the best transducer but the cheapest and most common. ( I have two). I would look at those items before I went with the oil bath set up.

 

[Sunbeam]

Kushtaka,

Nice post! I like how you not only posed your question to the group, but also took the time to add enough information for people to give you good feedback. I don't have a whole lot of actual use experience with my C-Dory yet, so keep that in mind and add appropriate grain(s) of salt to my comments.

My boat has a very noticeable list to starboard with the kicker mounted so far over. Even with a full water tank, there is a list.

I have the same issue with my boat if I'm alone (or when it is sitting at anchor). I have a 108# Honda 8hp on the starboard transom, plus the house and start battery in the starboard lazarette, so I knew it was going to be a problem (and doesn't it seem like everything else heavy "wants" to be on the starboard side too!). But, the boat came to me with that kicker in that position. I do also have a swim platform to port, and I really like it there (despite the weight issue) because then I don't have to wade through the engine/fuel cabling to get from there to the cockpit.

I'm probably going to go for a lighter kicker to ameliorate the list, but I'm not sure yet. Need more time underway

The [trim tabs] also seem to have been installed with (GASP!) silicon. I sure hope they haven't rotted anything out. They present a clearance issue for kicker install next to the main.

That wouldn't thrill me either (silicone) (to put it mildly). I'm also going to make a "wild" guess that whomever installed them that way did address the exposed transom core. I see you address this further below.

On your last note: My kicker was mounted directly on the transom, but I had to change that to clear the trim tabs when I installed them.

I'll also probably move the kicker more amidships

There isn't a whole lot of leeway due to clearance issues when turning one or the other motor (at least on my boat), but there is a bit of adjustment.

It looks like some have used a small fixed motor mount to clear the trim tabs. Is that the way to go?

That can be a way to go, and is what I did. I used a mount called a "Mini Jacker," which I had seen used by many other C-Brats in combination with trim tabs (there are many examples in the albums, Voyager's comes to mind as a good one to look at). The Mini Jacker moves the outboard aft from the transom enough to clear at least the Bennett M-120 Sport Tabs (what I installed). It also moved my kicker up about three inches, which actually was useful for me because my long shaft motor was a bit too low as-was. It's a nice, super-sturdy mount.

Has anyone tried a sealed mineral oil bath in the drain well? It's gotta work. I'm SURE it will work. Why wouldn't it?

If you are referring to the small sump at the center transom inside the boat, and if your era of boat is the same as mine, it would not work because there is core in that area, and a shoot-through-the-hull transducer needs a solid material to go through (such as fiberglass or epoxy). For that matter, you don't need a mineral bath, because you can epoxy/glue the transducer down (although you can use a mineral bath as well; you just want to eliminate air between the transducer puck and the hull). You would still have the coring problem though, unless you remove it. I did remove there core there on my boat (for other reasons). I have thought about putting a transducer there, now that I could, although I like my transom mounted triducer because it gives speed and temp.

Trim tabs stay big and wonderful, but they will probably come off temporarily while screw holes are assessed for rot, and re- installed with either overdrilled/epoxied holes or 5200. I've overdrilled most of my stuff, but the 5200 routine seems to be standard for penetrations of cored material on my 22 (just to be sure, when I installed my anchor locker drain I did both, maybe that should be what the transom gets?)

I would definitely overdrill and take out a generous amount of core, then fill with epoxy (neat first layer, then thickened). Most (all?) production builders do not do this, so it's "normal" to see just caulking or bedding compound used to "seal" holes and hardware -- it's not just your boat.. After re-drilling the thickened epoxy, I would bed the tabs when installing them (the epoxy just makes a better hole, but you still want to bed). I wouldn't choose 5200 myself, but it will certainly work fine (just a bit harder to take off, and to my mind the adhesive is not needed in this situation). If I were to use a polyurethane, I would use something more like 4200 or Sika 291. They are slightly less adhesive. I tapped the fasteners on mine and used machine screws (vs self-tapping ones), but that's certainly not necessary.

FINALLY, I'd like to add a swim step on the port side, and convert the port lazarette into a seat. One big reason for this is to load my two fairly large dogs into the dinghy. They just don't like being lifted over the side. I'm thinking up onto the seat, then into the dinghy via the swim step would be an easy sell with a couple pieces of beef jerky

This doesn't address your seating issue, but as far as getting from the swim platform into the cockpit: I copied a platform Two Bears made, and after using it for a month at Lake Powell (every day), I think it's fantastic. Made it so easy to cross the splashwell "moat." Basically it's just a flat piece of wood in a sort of parallelogram shape that rests on the top of the transom on one end and the other end sits right at the curve where the splashwell "bottom" turns upward to make the lip at the cockpit. (Both ends are padded, and there is a cleat that keeps it from moving.) I wouldn't be without it now. I'll see if I can find a photo and add it (not at my boat now so can't take a new one).

This was long winded and arguably could have been broken up into smaller threads, but I want to keep the big picture in sight!

I liked it this way. Because, like you say, the individual elements have to fit into the big picture.

Sunbeam

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

You know just the other day I stepped out of the shower and caught sight of myself in a full length mirror. I don't much care for my transom either!

I just about ruptured myself chucking over this one... :xlol

 

[digger]

It will work as is for a longshaft motor without the tiller handle.
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _photo.php

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _photo.php

Add remote controls for kicker, hydraulic steering and a second helm in the cockpit

 

[Kushtaka]

I thought there was no core in the sump? When I heard that I got excited.

I have always had transom mounted transducers myself, but I thought I could make something else work. I dislike them only for the holes through the fiberglass into the core below the waterline. I suppose there are ways around that without using a different type of transducer.

The problem with my transducer and fishfinder is their 1993 vintage. They were okay in their day. They aren't terribly useful to me in terms of being able to read bottom structure, and the depth can be way off, but it's usually ok and a restart fixes it. Otherwise it's all dialed in, it's just old.

Anyway, those pics are pretty good. That's kind of the setup I'm looking for.

 

[Two Bears]

Regarding the kicker clearing the trim tabs, my boat came with a cast "U" shaped metal bracket that the kicker mounts on and thus clears the tabs. The problem is that mounting bracket/ extension bracket was mounted too low. When retracted (raised?) my kicker just clears the water when the boat is at rest. At hull speed the kicker drags some and at speed it throws quite a rooster tail. I've been looking to remount, but I have to remount the whole bracket and I've been stalling because I could also mis-judge where to mount. The whole system was installed by the dealer when new (I'm the 3rd owner), so the "pros" blew the mounting. I've been thinking of going to a Garlick swing up mount for the kicker so that you can adjust the height, where as now, I can not adjust at all.

I can understand your issue with the list to stb. My kicker is on the other side, the swim step is on the stb and I still list, not as bad as you describe, but it's there. After refueling I always use my stb tank first for that reason.

Chuck

 

[Captains Cat]

If you want to mount a shoot thru transducer in that midship sump, you can remove the inner Fiberglass liner with a rotozip or the like, then the core with a suitable tool and pour in some epoxy. Then mount the transducer. Best done if you are NOT in the water! :disgust

REDFOX did it under the galley in his classic 22.

Charlie

 

[Sunbeam]

I thought there was no core in the sump? When I heard that I got excited.

If you want to mount a shoot thru transducer in that midship sump, you can remove the inner Fiberglass liner with a rotozip or the like, then the core with a suitable tool and pour in some epoxy.

Let me just clarify things as they stand on my 2002 22 Cruiser, at least.

First off, I thought Kushtaka was speaking of the sump just inside the transom in the center of the boat. I guess just because he was talking about the transom area. On my boat that sump is (well, was) cored, although the core there was thinner than that of the main hull. If you look at this "before" photo of my boat, you can see that the sump is shallower than it would be if there were no core (the hull core is thicker).

Here is a photo of the "transom sump" as it was built on my 22. It was definitely cored.



Here is an annotated photo showing the thinner core that was in the sump, and indicating the level of the main hull which has thicker core.



On the other hand, the 'midships bilge pump well on my boat is not cored. It is in the cabin, to starboard under the galley. I have seen that earlier boats don't have a 'midships sump at all (not sure year range though); my generation has the under-galley one; the next generation has it in the center of the passageway just ahead of the cabin door (which also looks deep enough to be uncored to me); and the next generation has the "permanent" flat cockpit sole and there is no sump in the cabin, as far as I know.

So, I should have said that the transom sump may be cored, as mine was; but if you meant the 'midships sump (if you have one) it is likely not cored. You can likely tell by comparing depths and looking at the photos above. It's pretty obvious that the 'midships sump on my boat is deeper than the transom one.

 

[Kushtaka]

Ok, I stand corrected about the core. I have no such sump in my cabin, only at the transom.

Those are very instructive pictures! Thanks!

Looks like the swim step will have to go starboard, kicker port on a mini jacker or similar, with steering tied together in front, transducer probably stays put.

If I'm tying the steering together do I need a sea star system or is bay star still okay? I might want to add autopilot and/or a second helm in the future and have a teleflex cable now and I'm not enamoured.