How does this sound - fuel tank pump-out setup...

BrentB":3svqklbg said:
Stop static

Static and fumes are bad

https://www.pei.org/static
and
http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/static.asp
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Well, everything other than the hose connection to the fuel water separator was outside on the ground, so any fumes presumably dissipated in the breeze pretty much immediately. The pump was powered by a 12 volt battery about 6 feet away from the pump and gas cans, and I was pumping into plastic gas cans. i am sure that fumes and static electricity (or any spark) are bad, but I don't know what grounding I could or should have done here. I of course am not advocating NOT grounding if you know what the heck you need to do. The articles were very interesting but not very informative, except evidently virtually all the gas station fires involved women who got back in their vehicles while the pump was still running, and the fires started when they exited their vehicles and returned to the pump. Almost none of the fires involved men who tend to stay with the pump handle until pumping is through. Not talking on cell phones while pumping gas probably goes without saying.

Of course I may be all wet here!
 
Okay, so I've read the links and - as I already sort of knew - static/sparks are bad, and plastic containers can be implicated. So the solution seems to be to bond/ground everything. But that's where I'm stuck. What does that mean exactly in real terms? In other words, what does one actually do to accomplish this? Can someone just plainly state how one bonds/grounds these things? Attach wires? To what? And lead them where? I'll be on a concrete surface, btw.

I completely understand that it should be done, and I want to do it, but nothing I have read so far explains how to do it exactly in practical terms.

Apparently I'm not alone since Pat and others don't seem to have the secret recipe either. So if anyone could explain how to go about it, I think quite a few of us will start doing it.
 
Cell phones at gas stations and refueling:

FCC web site:
"The rumors and reports may be fueled by warnings posted at gas stations or included in wireless phone owners’ manuals suggesting that wireless phones should not be used around fuel vapors.

There Is No Evidence That These Reports Are True"

Static electricity is far more likely.

I do things a bit differently---and think it is safer. Don't put the fuel pump in the boat--for a variety of reasons: If you have a fire or leak, the fuel will be in the cockpit, you cannot easily get it out of the cockpit, and you probably cannot stop the fuel flow...You run greater personal risk.

My set up has been with approved fuel hose, thru the input to the Racor filter (Racors usually have two in, and two out ports). Just draw from the other "in".

I suppose that technically one could put a ground rod from the boat fuel plastic or metal tank...but I don't believe that the C Dory's have the fuel fill grounded: See ABYC Fuel systems requirements

Each metal or metallic plated component of the fuel fill system and fuel tank, which is in contact with the fuel, must be grounded so that its resistance to the boat's ground is less than one olnn. Wire ends shall not be clamped between the fill pipes and hose.
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Technically one probably should ground the pickup from the fuel tanks to the fuel fill fitting's metal, and perhaps even the metal in the racor on the boat...anyone do this? Certainly CDory is not in compliance with ABYC.

I do have a remote 12 volt battery (not in the boat) pumping system, the cans I am taking fuel out of, or putting into are on the ground. (thus grounded--as much as any plastic tank can be grounded. The battery is remote from the boat, and I used a switch which is ignition protected.

Summer_2009_SD_card_228.sized.jpg


I recently upgraded the pump to a pump which is higher capacity.

Important when filling plastic cans, is that they be on the ground...
With the small volume of fuel we are pumping, the chance of a static spark is small. [/url]
 
The links provided by Brent, referenced 176 possible cases of static caused fires over several years time. During this time there were at least 12 billion cars being fueled per year in the US & only one death occurred in these recorded years. On a Australian government report it said there have been 243 static electricity cases world wide over about this same time period with cell phones contributing to none of them. There are reasonable precautions to be taken when transferring fuel out of our boat fuel tanks, but making any link to the hazards of fueling our autos a comparison, only makes it seem to me an extremely safe process. It would seem to me the precautions taken by Pat, Kevin & others to be good. Compare one death in several years with the many billions of times a auto is fueled yearly here in the US with a minimum of around 30,000 deaths in auto accidents in just one year to see where the real danger exist.
 
Thanks for the additional input folks. It really is appreciated.

I'll have the plastic tanks on the ground (concrete). I'll also set up the pump off the boat (will attach to board). The battery will be 20' away and I'll use an ignition protected switch (I have a spare lying around) to start and stop the pump. I'll touch something metal to dissipate any static on me before starting. So it sounds like I'll be good to go, if I'm understanding all this correctly. BTW, I wasn't trying to seem paranoid, but rather just didn't really understand what would be a safe vs. an unsafe setup, and when that's the case I like to ask. Sometimes there can be things that aren't obvious.

As an aside, I did ground my metal fuel fills. I think I started a thread to ask about it here, as Moeller recommended it and then I wasn't sure.... Of course the boat is still a floating ground, as I understand it, but I ran a ground wire from each fuel fill to the negative bus. It was easy because I was re-bedding/fastening the fuel fills at the time I was putting in the new tanks. That said, the fills won't be involved in pumping out the tanks since my plan is to (at least try) to do it from the Racor. I do have a spare, plugged, "in" port on the Racor, but I think I'm going to first try using the second "out" port because I have a Honda quick connect fitting on that, and I have a spare quick connect mating half that I can put on the fuel hose for the pump out system. The fills were not grounded in the original C-Dory setup.

PS: Thanks for the reality check on the cell phone use at gas stations. I don't do it myself (mainly just because I like to have my wits about me at that time), but have always wondered if I should be "running for my life" when I see other people fueling while on their phones. I guess I should run from people with velour seats in their cars instead!
 
What Brent said.

Sounds like you have the grounds covered, Sunbeam. Agree plastic containers are "grounded" to the extent they can be if on concrete or the actual dirt/ground.

With your fuel fills grounded to the negative buss, and that grounded to whatever the tanks sit on, you should be good to go.

As you said, Sunbeam, I am surprised there is not some approved setup or procedure for this.
 
AstoriaDave":23kao7kt said:
Sounds like you have the grounds covered, Sunbeam. Agree plastic containers are "grounded" to the extent they can be if on concrete or the actual dirt/ground.

With your fuel fills grounded to the negative buss, and that grounded to whatever the tanks sit on, you should be good to go.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. Slight difference is that with my "pump" setup I won't be going through the fuel fills (will be using a Honda quick connect fitting that's on the Racor). Still glad they are grounded for normal use though.

AstoriaDave":23kao7kt said:
As you said, Sunbeam, I am surprised there is not some approved setup or procedure for this.
Click to expand...

I have to wonder how many other folks - like me - have held off on doing this due to confusion or just not being sure. I had read quite a few threads on it here and elsewhere and oftentimes there were questions but then it just sort of petered out without any definitive answers. I'm sure it's obvious to those who do it all the time.

I definitely would have set something like this up sooner if I had been more confident I wouldn't be making some dumb mistake. I'm "forced" into it now because due to an injury there is some *old* fuel in the tanks and no way am I running it through my clean carbs!
 
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