How do you add extra anchor line while on the water.
- Thread starter DayBreak
- Start date
Once you've practiced your splice (maybe on a spare bit of 1/2" first) you may be concerned about fraying at the splice ends. Traditionally I have whipped those ends but in later years I'm lazy. I slip a short piece of heat shrink tape over each end before I splice. When finished I just drop the tape over the fray area and shrink (carefully so as not to damage the line).
I also use this tape as markers on my regular rode.
I also use this tape as markers on my regular rode.
Most of us would agree that the short 3 strand splice is best. The short splice doubles the diameter of the rope--(but will still pass thru most wild cats. If the line has to run thru a pulley, then the long Splice--with slightly less strength (by oversewing, you can make the long splice as strong).
The long splice option is here: Long Splice.. Here is a page which shows the long splice and links to other ropes than the 3 strand.
If you only want a temporary addition, then I would just join the two lines with a bowline in each rope--and interweave the bowlines, with a square knot---gives close to 90% of the original line.
I always attach the bitter end of the line to some small lines via a very tight eye splice in the bitter end of the anchor rode. I then weave this smaller line back and forth between the tight eye splice and the bolt eye which should be on the inner end of the bolt holding the bow eye in the anchor locker. You always want the bitter end secured, but you want to be able to easily detach it by allowing enough length that the tight eye splice can be brought thru the deck pipe.--and untying the small line or cutting it, is easier and less destructive than cutting the main rode..
One option if you are going to be adding the 200 feet regularly, but want the lesser length rode between times, is to splice a couple of links of chain into both ends of the lines you are going to attach. Then use a combining link between the chain links where they are joined.
Connecting link (when peened over with JB weld, will be very close to equal of chain. Should go thru the chain wheel. But to remove will require cutting.
Double Clevis Connecting link: You may have to ease it thru the chain wheel by hand, but easily removed.
The long splice option is here: Long Splice.. Here is a page which shows the long splice and links to other ropes than the 3 strand.
If you only want a temporary addition, then I would just join the two lines with a bowline in each rope--and interweave the bowlines, with a square knot---gives close to 90% of the original line.
I always attach the bitter end of the line to some small lines via a very tight eye splice in the bitter end of the anchor rode. I then weave this smaller line back and forth between the tight eye splice and the bolt eye which should be on the inner end of the bolt holding the bow eye in the anchor locker. You always want the bitter end secured, but you want to be able to easily detach it by allowing enough length that the tight eye splice can be brought thru the deck pipe.--and untying the small line or cutting it, is easier and less destructive than cutting the main rode..
One option if you are going to be adding the 200 feet regularly, but want the lesser length rode between times, is to splice a couple of links of chain into both ends of the lines you are going to attach. Then use a combining link between the chain links where they are joined.
Connecting link (when peened over with JB weld, will be very close to equal of chain. Should go thru the chain wheel. But to remove will require cutting.
Double Clevis Connecting link: You may have to ease it thru the chain wheel by hand, but easily removed.
Thank you guys. I know how to splice a 3-Strand line. I apologize, I should have been more clear. We have 200 ft. of three strand line attached to 35 ft. of chain in the locker already. The chain locker is maxed out with this. What I need to know is how do you attach another 200 ft. of line (temporarily) to the anchor line for being in an area where the water is very deep?
Pacificcoast101
Member
How big is your locker? We have over 400 feet of chain in ours.
starcrafttom
Active member
Interesting question. so you want to add rope to your existing line but not run it thru the windless. Say from a crate on deck. I would run out all of your line from your windless. Pile it on deck ( watch you feet). Tie a loop in the end. Tie a loop in the other end of your second line and connect with a shackle. You are going to have to do this prier to anchoring. You will have to hand pull your second line in until you get to the shackle to unhook and then run your main line down into the windless. Sound like a lot of hassle and it going to take two people. One on the controls and one on the deck. Would not even try it in the wind. too much time with the anchor just hanging under the boat. You know that is not a good idea.
Bobs link might work if it passes thru the windless. that way you could make the connection while in side the boat and the windless is holding the line. Still to much time with the anchor hanging or dragging, but you would be able to use the windless to pull up you anchor. You make want to use a bouy anchor system https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40nz7HVwcOw From the cockpit and avoid the windless all together.
Bobs link might work if it passes thru the windless. that way you could make the connection while in side the boat and the windless is holding the line. Still to much time with the anchor hanging or dragging, but you would be able to use the windless to pull up you anchor. You make want to use a bouy anchor system https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40nz7HVwcOw From the cockpit and avoid the windless all together.
starcrafttom
Active member
Even better video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b4G0IlWwcE
chimoii":1gtlbkkd said:
I tried this with the heat shrink for both whipping and markings in both cases the heat shrink would slide either off completely (whips) or along the line which made the marks unusable. I now whip using whipping line. Once you do it a fair number of times it is easy to do and lasts MUCH longer.
For a quick "whip" I will dip in the plastic "liquid tape" (Liquid "Whip" is the same thing at 3x the price), after burning the end, and making sure it is well fused.
The Heat shrink tubing with Adhesive, and again flaring the end, will work fine.
If you want to keep load on the rode with the windlasss, and still connect the two lines, I would splice about 2 feet of the 1/4" High Test chain into the permanent line bitter end. Paint or dip the last feet before the chain, in red liquid tape, so it is very visible. Stop the windlass power down, with only 6" out beyond the chain wheel of the windlass. Eye splice one end of the second 200' with a SS thimble, and use a Wichard 1204 (8mm) self locking D Shackle (SWL 2200#, Breaking strength over 5,000 #) and attach the pin thru one of the chain links just beyond the windlass. That way you you keep control of the chain on the windlass, until the shackle is attached. Then power down the last several feet, and you are on the second 200' rode.
When bringing in the anchor rode, do it by hand, (powering the boat to toward the anchor), and when you come to the chain on the bitter end of the original rode, you then drop the chain into the windlass chain wheel, engage, and when a foot or more is into the anchor locker, then remove the D Shackle. Use the windlass to bring in the last 235 feet of rode.
I would still have an attachment to the eye, on the inside of the anchor locker--with a lighter line, and a clip to the end of the 2' of chain you have spliced on the end. (If you wanted to be double safe, you could use one of the ultra high strength lines, such as "Spectra" as that retainer line.)
Another, more expensive solution, would be to use 8 strand anchor rode-(such as Brait [Yale Cordage] or any 8 strand Plait line.). I don't know the capacity of the Venture23 anchor locker--but I had over 300' of 1/2" 8 plait, plus 50' of chain in the 22 anchor locker with room left over.
The Heat shrink tubing with Adhesive, and again flaring the end, will work fine.
If you want to keep load on the rode with the windlasss, and still connect the two lines, I would splice about 2 feet of the 1/4" High Test chain into the permanent line bitter end. Paint or dip the last feet before the chain, in red liquid tape, so it is very visible. Stop the windlass power down, with only 6" out beyond the chain wheel of the windlass. Eye splice one end of the second 200' with a SS thimble, and use a Wichard 1204 (8mm) self locking D Shackle (SWL 2200#, Breaking strength over 5,000 #) and attach the pin thru one of the chain links just beyond the windlass. That way you you keep control of the chain on the windlass, until the shackle is attached. Then power down the last several feet, and you are on the second 200' rode.
When bringing in the anchor rode, do it by hand, (powering the boat to toward the anchor), and when you come to the chain on the bitter end of the original rode, you then drop the chain into the windlass chain wheel, engage, and when a foot or more is into the anchor locker, then remove the D Shackle. Use the windlass to bring in the last 235 feet of rode.
I would still have an attachment to the eye, on the inside of the anchor locker--with a lighter line, and a clip to the end of the 2' of chain you have spliced on the end. (If you wanted to be double safe, you could use one of the ultra high strength lines, such as "Spectra" as that retainer line.)
Another, more expensive solution, would be to use 8 strand anchor rode-(such as Brait [Yale Cordage] or any 8 strand Plait line.). I don't know the capacity of the Venture23 anchor locker--but I had over 300' of 1/2" 8 plait, plus 50' of chain in the 22 anchor locker with room left over.
thataway":29x4oi8v said:
I had pretty much that same rode (300' of 8-plait, plus 25' of chain) on my 2006 CC Venture 23. It fit nicely in the locker. I had a vertical windlass. Were I to do it again, I think I would go with a horizontal mount to provide more fall and even more storage room. For what it's worth (the OP mentions going "north"), I anchored up and down the Inside Passage and I was glad many times that I had that much length.
Thank you everyone for your response to our question. Tom, I really enjoyed watching the video of the anchor retrieval method without a windlass.
Dr. Bob, thank you for the detailed procedure along with the specified quality parts to safely add an additional length of line to an existing anchor rode while on the water. To use a retainer line at the end of the 2 ft. of chain attached to the main anchor rode and have red liquid tape as a warning on the line downstream of this chain is very wise. I never heard of a Wichard Self-Locking Pin "D" Shackle. Nice part! If we go with this procedure we will replicate your design to the exact detail you specify. Thank you so much for your wisdom and knowledge here.
This morning I slowly opened the chain locker door just a crack to peek inside and see that I have about 10 inches of head room left in the locker. It may appear that I have plenty of room for additional rode. We haven't used the anchor since last June and it has 1000 miles or so of being towed and time being pounded at sea and so it may be that time and distance may have compressed (with 35 ft. of chain) the rode to appear like we have much more room in the locker. Today, Colleen and I are going to draw out the rode at home and put it back into the locker to determine the real space we have left in the locker. We may just start over and go with Dr. Bob's idea of using new 8 strand Plait line vs. the 3-strand line we are presently using to get that extra length we need.
We have an additional question. What is the deepest we might expect to anchor in the Inside Passage anyway? Thank you all in advance for your help here.
Dr. Bob, thank you for the detailed procedure along with the specified quality parts to safely add an additional length of line to an existing anchor rode while on the water. To use a retainer line at the end of the 2 ft. of chain attached to the main anchor rode and have red liquid tape as a warning on the line downstream of this chain is very wise. I never heard of a Wichard Self-Locking Pin "D" Shackle. Nice part! If we go with this procedure we will replicate your design to the exact detail you specify. Thank you so much for your wisdom and knowledge here.
This morning I slowly opened the chain locker door just a crack to peek inside and see that I have about 10 inches of head room left in the locker. It may appear that I have plenty of room for additional rode. We haven't used the anchor since last June and it has 1000 miles or so of being towed and time being pounded at sea and so it may be that time and distance may have compressed (with 35 ft. of chain) the rode to appear like we have much more room in the locker. Today, Colleen and I are going to draw out the rode at home and put it back into the locker to determine the real space we have left in the locker. We may just start over and go with Dr. Bob's idea of using new 8 strand Plait line vs. the 3-strand line we are presently using to get that extra length we need.
We have an additional question. What is the deepest we might expect to anchor in the Inside Passage anyway? Thank you all in advance for your help here.
starcrafttom
Active member
I would not expect to anchor any more then 50 ft. Almost any anchorage is going to have a beach or shore line that shallows up. You can also anchor closer to shore with less rode if you are set up to stern tie. Will you have a dinghy? You should. Stern tie to the shore will keep you from swinging in the tide and wind. Many anchorages in the lower BC side of the islands have rings in the rock just for this use. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSmZUZmJmIA
this is a good video/ sells pitch. You can do the same thing with a bucket of rope. I like to use pull tape as I can store 1000 ft in a 5 gallon bucket. pull tape
this is a good video/ sells pitch. You can do the same thing with a bucket of rope. I like to use pull tape as I can store 1000 ft in a 5 gallon bucket. pull tape
Thanks Tom. To expect that we may only need to anchor in about 50 ft. of water makes us feel better about the Inside Passage and to stern tie.
We do have a dinghy. To stern tie to shore is our next topic to research and do properly. The 1000 ft. of pull tape with a test rating of 1250 lb. is a great idea. Appreciate your help on this.
We do have a dinghy. To stern tie to shore is our next topic to research and do properly. The 1000 ft. of pull tape with a test rating of 1250 lb. is a great idea. Appreciate your help on this.
In Alaska and up thru the Broughtons we did fine with 200/50 on the C Dory 25. With our Cal 46, and 6n foot draft, we had 200 of chain and 400 of rode. The moral is that the C Dory can get into some little corners which bigger boats would not dare enter. (OK we did a few of these, very carefully with our 46.) For example at Ford's terror--if you anchor to the North arm, where these are some waterfalls, and good blue Berrys (with a few bears hiding) you are in over 100 feet. If you go to the South end, where the stream comes in and there is a delta meadow--you can anchor in 40 feet (at high tide) and be very comfortable.
Always check the state of the tide! 25 feet can make a huge difference.
I have used tubular nylon 3/4" wide for stern ties--Tom's idea for the C Dory is outstanding. We usually used polypropylene floating and highly visible. We also had a eye solace with a thimble, and a shackle to use with some 1/4" HT chain around rocks or trees--also some 3/4" polypropylene line for around trees with eye splices in both ends. Using these did require going to the beach/rocks with the dinghy--but the dogs had to go ashore anyway.
Always check the state of the tide! 25 feet can make a huge difference.
I have used tubular nylon 3/4" wide for stern ties--Tom's idea for the C Dory is outstanding. We usually used polypropylene floating and highly visible. We also had a eye solace with a thimble, and a shackle to use with some 1/4" HT chain around rocks or trees--also some 3/4" polypropylene line for around trees with eye splices in both ends. Using these did require going to the beach/rocks with the dinghy--but the dogs had to go ashore anyway.
First, the chain link Bob showed works great. I have one and it goes through the windlass (Quick 500) easily, many times.
As to anchoring depths, I have not been past Cape Caution, but have considerable time in the Broughtons, some in Desolation, and more in the Gulf and San Juans. I use a Rocna 9 and have 70 feet of chain and rarely let out past the end of the chain. When anchoring, I am usually in pretty shallow water. Tides are generally 10 - 15 feet or less, and most of my anchor spots are where I have about 5 feet under me at low tide. I have been able to do that without a stern tie, and usually have a 5 (to 7) to one scope. I would think there would be places that you could anchor at less that 50 feet almost anywhere within a few miles.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
As to anchoring depths, I have not been past Cape Caution, but have considerable time in the Broughtons, some in Desolation, and more in the Gulf and San Juans. I use a Rocna 9 and have 70 feet of chain and rarely let out past the end of the chain. When anchoring, I am usually in pretty shallow water. Tides are generally 10 - 15 feet or less, and most of my anchor spots are where I have about 5 feet under me at low tide. I have been able to do that without a stern tie, and usually have a 5 (to 7) to one scope. I would think there would be places that you could anchor at less that 50 feet almost anywhere within a few miles.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Thataway wrote "If you only want a temporary addition, then I would just join the two lines with a bowline in each rope--and interweave the bowlines, with a square knot"
I think I get the interweave bowlines - with rope 1 make a bowline with a loop, run rope 2 through the rope 1 loop and tie a bowline on rope 2 with rope 2's loop around rope 1's working end and then pull the working ends of both ropes and the loops interweave - right?? Where is the square knot?
Jay
I think I get the interweave bowlines - with rope 1 make a bowline with a loop, run rope 2 through the rope 1 loop and tie a bowline on rope 2 with rope 2's loop around rope 1's working end and then pull the working ends of both ropes and the loops interweave - right?? Where is the square knot?
Jay
I may have to take a photo--but start by tying one bowline. Then form the loop in the standing part of the line for the second bowline--take the end, and go over the loop in the first bowline, then around behind both parts of the loop, and up and over, to finish the bowline, as you go thru the small loop you made, around the standing part, and back down the "hole" in the loop. Doing this makes much greater contact area of the lines, than just tying the two lines together. Another way is to look at the way a "Sheet bend" is made--but you can make symmetrical loops, as in the "reef knot" or square knot.
I'll take a photo tomorrow, if this did not explain it adequately.
I'll take a photo tomorrow, if this did not explain it adequately.
Here is the photo:
I did not use equal size lines, just a couple I had lying in the garage, to give some contrast between the double core, and the 3 strand lines.
In this case, I tied the bowline in the double core (smooth rope), and then wove the 3 strand up out and around--the standing look in the first bowline, then finished my second bowline.
This gives far greater surface area of contact between the ropes, and thus far less potential chafe, or a point of failure in the two loops.
Knots are a lot of fun, and will save you and your in many cases. My favorite book of knots is "Ashley Book of Knots" it is over 3/4 of a century old, but still relevant. There are a lot of modern and synthetic ropes, where one has to use other techniques. But one is always learning as they use various knots--as we all do from our C Dorys.
I did not use equal size lines, just a couple I had lying in the garage, to give some contrast between the double core, and the 3 strand lines.
In this case, I tied the bowline in the double core (smooth rope), and then wove the 3 strand up out and around--the standing look in the first bowline, then finished my second bowline.
This gives far greater surface area of contact between the ropes, and thus far less potential chafe, or a point of failure in the two loops.
Knots are a lot of fun, and will save you and your in many cases. My favorite book of knots is "Ashley Book of Knots" it is over 3/4 of a century old, but still relevant. There are a lot of modern and synthetic ropes, where one has to use other techniques. But one is always learning as they use various knots--as we all do from our C Dorys.