Hey RedFox + CC!
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Salmon Slayer
New member
Some things I have been pondering about all this:
* I think its rude (though probably unintentionally) to come in and tout purchasing a competitors boat on this site; especially if you start extolling the virtues of your new find...etc. (I couldnt afford a new C-Dory or a Cape Cruiser! HA!) after all, this is a C-Dory site.
* De-linking Greg's site is not a good idea and we will all be the poorer for it. He is entertaining, provides inspiration, and if by "clicking" to his site you get exposed to Cape Cruisers, who really cares?
* The Cape Cruiser is no doubt a wonderful boat but couldnt they have done it just a little bit different? I mean, the interior is almost identical and I doubt most of us would spot the exterior differences from much afar. Surely the Toland's have more than one singular design in them? If I was a lawyer I would be going nuts.
* Having said the above, there are some things about the interior that I like and may incorporate on my boat; like the wood accents. I like the old sail boat varnished teak or mahogony battens on an interior and the Cape cruiser kind of reminds me that I could do the same on my boat.
* The C-Ranger is not a C-Dory and yet it is accepted because it is from the same manufacturer....no problem and understandable. Its also totally impratical for my needs and not much (at least so far) can be transferred to C-Dory use but I still enjoy seeing and reading about them. Just another "salty" looking boat we can enjoy.
* Finally, for some reason this subject is polarizing this site and its a shame. We should not be losing members who I presume come here for recreation and to comune about their boats and adventures. Though I am not in favor of making this a joint Cape Cruiser site, I wish everyone would lighten up a little. But then what do I know, I actually liked my BayLiner.
* I think its rude (though probably unintentionally) to come in and tout purchasing a competitors boat on this site; especially if you start extolling the virtues of your new find...etc. (I couldnt afford a new C-Dory or a Cape Cruiser! HA!) after all, this is a C-Dory site.
* De-linking Greg's site is not a good idea and we will all be the poorer for it. He is entertaining, provides inspiration, and if by "clicking" to his site you get exposed to Cape Cruisers, who really cares?
* The Cape Cruiser is no doubt a wonderful boat but couldnt they have done it just a little bit different? I mean, the interior is almost identical and I doubt most of us would spot the exterior differences from much afar. Surely the Toland's have more than one singular design in them? If I was a lawyer I would be going nuts.
* Having said the above, there are some things about the interior that I like and may incorporate on my boat; like the wood accents. I like the old sail boat varnished teak or mahogony battens on an interior and the Cape cruiser kind of reminds me that I could do the same on my boat.
* The C-Ranger is not a C-Dory and yet it is accepted because it is from the same manufacturer....no problem and understandable. Its also totally impratical for my needs and not much (at least so far) can be transferred to C-Dory use but I still enjoy seeing and reading about them. Just another "salty" looking boat we can enjoy.
* Finally, for some reason this subject is polarizing this site and its a shame. We should not be losing members who I presume come here for recreation and to comune about their boats and adventures. Though I am not in favor of making this a joint Cape Cruiser site, I wish everyone would lighten up a little. But then what do I know, I actually liked my BayLiner.
wailedcentipede
New member
Mark Toland, i apologize .... reread my post and i guess it does end up pointing at you .. it was not meant to point at anyone (nothing like sitting on the fence) if the site is C-D owners and C-D people you should not be on the defence to keep it C-D boats ... hence my shot from the hip ... sorry it hit someone .. wc
This is what makes this community so great. When someone is wrong they admit it and take responsibility.
I am not the brightest star in the galaxy but I can read between the lines sometime and this controversy has been going on for some time, so there has been a lot of lines to read between. I think I have finally figured out the story and if I am right, the folks at C-Dory deserve a lot of admiration on my/our part for their handling of this Cape Cruiser controversy. My hat is off to them.
I just wish those trying to keep things stirred up would quit.
Salmon Slayer,
To us, all your pondering was right on. Especially the point of de-linking Greg's site.
We dreamed of owning a C- Dory for over 20 years before the dream became reality and we are C-Dory through and through as much as anyone can be and to us this site is as good as it gets on the internet. Just wished the powers to be would reconsider the de-linking. Its to much all our loss.
Jay & Jo-Lee
To us, all your pondering was right on. Especially the point of de-linking Greg's site.
We dreamed of owning a C- Dory for over 20 years before the dream became reality and we are C-Dory through and through as much as anyone can be and to us this site is as good as it gets on the internet. Just wished the powers to be would reconsider the de-linking. Its to much all our loss.
Jay & Jo-Lee
Salmon Slayor and Jay & Jo-Lee
I am not trying to start an argument, just curious as to why this site should have a link to Red Fox’s site and not other sites that are funny or inspirational.
If we (and when I say we, it is because I feel I am a part of this community) link to a Cape Cruiser site, why not to a Bayliner site or some other boat sites?
If it is because Red Fox is a member here and he has a C-Dory, then why not link to the dozen or so sites I have. I am a member here and have a C-Dory. Or Pat Andersons site. He has a C-Dory and has been a member from just about day one and contributed as much or more than any member.
Because of the traffic this site generates I bet there are 1000’s of sites that would like a link from here. If anyone wants a link to Red Fox’s site they can put it in their Favorites list. I don’t feel it a loss, not to have a link from here to Greg’s site. I visit his site occasionally and find it humorous.
Bill & Mike have done a great job of designing, maintaining and managing this site. I hope they don’t get discouraged and quit because we keep complaining about their decisions. I for one believe they made the right decision and hope they stick with their gut feelings. It has served them and the C-Brat community well.
I am not trying to start an argument, just curious as to why this site should have a link to Red Fox’s site and not other sites that are funny or inspirational.
If we (and when I say we, it is because I feel I am a part of this community) link to a Cape Cruiser site, why not to a Bayliner site or some other boat sites?
If it is because Red Fox is a member here and he has a C-Dory, then why not link to the dozen or so sites I have. I am a member here and have a C-Dory. Or Pat Andersons site. He has a C-Dory and has been a member from just about day one and contributed as much or more than any member.
Because of the traffic this site generates I bet there are 1000’s of sites that would like a link from here. If anyone wants a link to Red Fox’s site they can put it in their Favorites list. I don’t feel it a loss, not to have a link from here to Greg’s site. I visit his site occasionally and find it humorous.
Bill & Mike have done a great job of designing, maintaining and managing this site. I hope they don’t get discouraged and quit because we keep complaining about their decisions. I for one believe they made the right decision and hope they stick with their gut feelings. It has served them and the C-Brat community well.
Salmon Slayer
New member
Oldgrowth, I think you have a good idea that should seriously be considered. If you or someone else has a site where we can get ideas and enjoy C-Dorys then why not have a link. I know I cruise the net looking for such sites but rarely stumble on them. Why not a page full of links?
Greg's site has lots of how to pictures and ideas for projects for improving our boats and if you havent read his writing, you should as its pretty darn good; thats why I urge the administrators of this site to re-think their decision.
The administrators do a great job with this site which is why its successful and I hope they dont get discouraged. I dont like Fords trucks but my youngest son has one and is crazy about it and I still love him anyway. We dont have to agree on everything just because we like the same boats.
Greg's site has lots of how to pictures and ideas for projects for improving our boats and if you havent read his writing, you should as its pretty darn good; thats why I urge the administrators of this site to re-think their decision.
The administrators do a great job with this site which is why its successful and I hope they dont get discouraged. I dont like Fords trucks but my youngest son has one and is crazy about it and I still love him anyway. We dont have to agree on everything just because we like the same boats.
Hey fellers and gals -
The fat lady sang days ago. Discussions like this just seem to fragment this great site into factions... not good. Bill and Mike are personal friends and do us all a great service - and neither of them need the hassle. I've been a C-Dory suporter for years - 6 CD 22's, a Tomcat and an Orca... and I'll admit that the Tomcat and Orca (and the C-Rangers) are not CD's, but they sure are related!
I am still in discussions with various members about the CC/CD stuff but I do it by PM -- and earnestly suggest all do the same.
Love y'all -- and boat safely!!
Dusty
The fat lady sang days ago. Discussions like this just seem to fragment this great site into factions... not good. Bill and Mike are personal friends and do us all a great service - and neither of them need the hassle. I've been a C-Dory suporter for years - 6 CD 22's, a Tomcat and an Orca... and I'll admit that the Tomcat and Orca (and the C-Rangers) are not CD's, but they sure are related!
I am still in discussions with various members about the CC/CD stuff but I do it by PM -- and earnestly suggest all do the same.
Love y'all -- and boat safely!!
Dusty
Thanks, Dusty, for your comments. Also, folks seem to be missing the point made earlier by Mike. There is a link to RF's site in his profile; others can place links to their sites in their profile, as well. If you want to go to one of these sites, go to that individual's profile and click on their link. Simple enuf.
Please - let's quit talking about this nonsense!
Please - let's quit talking about this nonsense!
Oldgrowth
We should have stayed out of this. Sure wouldn't want to to discourage Bill and Mike. Respect what they have accomplished with this site to much. Didn't realize Greg's site had changed to a cc site. Really enjoyed Greg's old site and his do-ins on the Sound. The cc thing is just to hot button now and probably in the future. Agree with Dusty about the cc/cd stuff by PM.
We should have stayed out of this. Sure wouldn't want to to discourage Bill and Mike. Respect what they have accomplished with this site to much. Didn't realize Greg's site had changed to a cc site. Really enjoyed Greg's old site and his do-ins on the Sound. The cc thing is just to hot button now and probably in the future. Agree with Dusty about the cc/cd stuff by PM.
Jay and Jolee,
Just a note,
Gregs site was started to display his modifications to his C-Dory. Most of the site is devoted to his Classic 22 C-Dory.
The CC stuff is relatively new. Greg has invited CC owners to his site where they can discuss and display their boats. So far, there is not any factory participation or support of his site. One dealer has posted some pictures of CC boats.
Anyone who wants to discuss CD or CC boats is invited.
Just a note,
Gregs site was started to display his modifications to his C-Dory. Most of the site is devoted to his Classic 22 C-Dory.
The CC stuff is relatively new. Greg has invited CC owners to his site where they can discuss and display their boats. So far, there is not any factory participation or support of his site. One dealer has posted some pictures of CC boats.
Anyone who wants to discuss CD or CC boats is invited.
I should add a PS... never can remember long enough to finish my thoughts... swish... gone.
Greg is a super guy and I consider him a good personal friend. He is in the same age group as my grandkids, but obviously a whole bunch smarter. One g-son just blew a 6500 dollar engine on his hot play toy. Dumber than dumb!!! But old duster has blown a few over the years too so can't point fingers.
None of my chatter was to throw rocks at the CC. I've known and respected the Tolands since the late 1970s and watched the birth and growing pains of our beloved CDs. I'm confident they build a fine boat - always have.
I have a link on my desktop to RF's home page and enjoy each visit. Man, he does awesome things and puts a whole lot of thought into his additions. I rag him a bit about Yamaha, but I've got a Yami 4-stroke in the back of the 22, so don't push that button very hard.
To level the playing field - I just today ordered a new 22 angler. Whew!
:love
Dusty
Greg is a super guy and I consider him a good personal friend. He is in the same age group as my grandkids, but obviously a whole bunch smarter. One g-son just blew a 6500 dollar engine on his hot play toy. Dumber than dumb!!! But old duster has blown a few over the years too so can't point fingers.
None of my chatter was to throw rocks at the CC. I've known and respected the Tolands since the late 1970s and watched the birth and growing pains of our beloved CDs. I'm confident they build a fine boat - always have.
I have a link on my desktop to RF's home page and enjoy each visit. Man, he does awesome things and puts a whole lot of thought into his additions. I rag him a bit about Yamaha, but I've got a Yami 4-stroke in the back of the 22, so don't push that button very hard.
To level the playing field - I just today ordered a new 22 angler. Whew!
:love
Dusty
willhave1day
New member
Ok, I don't want to get flamed, and I don't intend to upset anyone. It is not my place to say anything but following the last few months I can no longer remain quiet. I hopefully am providing intelligent input that doesn't involve my feet.. :embarrased
I'm an outsider looking in, I don't have a boat yet but I will at some point. Might I offer some forum etiquette of creating an "off topic" forum. We do this on the many automotive boards I either administrate or post on. Kindly move anything not pertinent to the posters chosen forum to the Off Topic forum. No hard feelings, the rules are now clear and there should be no offense. Everyone understands this is the right of the board owners. Someone is posting here because they need help and value the wealth of knowledge and I applaude the moderators making it clear no one shall be shut out. So make a small corner. This site has information for any boater; electronics don't care what boat they operate in. Radar use applies the same regardless so continue to provide a place to nurture that. Posters that write propaganda and then disappear should be simply deleted, moved, or ignored not fed with anger. A potential purchaser simply wants to make an informed purchase to bes suit their needs; they don't want to hear trash but your honest opinion instead.
How do you know you don't like Liver and Onions if you've never eaten it?
As non owners we have been laying low out of respect. I probably have read almost every post! It's not our realm until we own one. Many of you have been very welcoming to my wife and I. However, IMHO certain comments have not kept it nice; and spark back to the bit of a "click" my wife and I felt at the factory and SBS; especially loose comments alone in a boat by a select few as to what we can or cannot afford considering our age. You're harshing my groove. :smilep Are you not excited for anyone who wants to start a boating hobby? Many, many more of you offered us a ride without knowing us. I choose to form my opinions around those experiences. Whatever motivates the human condition; I fear I see this same attitude over "the boat who's name we shall not speak" (LOL!). We were equally turned off by the trash we got from that manufacturer at the SBS and because of that I wouldn't consider purchasing it even if it were half the cost of the dreamy 25 cruiser.
The Harley vs Indian comment is well put. Imitation is the highest form of flattery. Everything is built on someone else's ideas. Jazz music would not exist if it weren't for "borrowing" other musicians ideas. Miles Davis almost went home after meeting his idol, Charlie Parker, whom he described as unfit for the human race expect when he's on stage. Where would we be without The Birth of the Cool??
My basic point is - again as a complete outsider - please do not let yourselves become the stiflers of information, the keepers of what should be considered information, and the doom-sayers of others' choices.
I thought long and hard before posting how I feel and honestly I feel as if I just showed up on a moped at Sturgis during Harley week even just posting this. I do not think that is the founders intention. The moderators must do a better job to keep it nice, and off topic anything not particular to a C-Dory. Who cares how the competition ended up?! It only better serves us, the consumer. What if that wonderful couple did not save the couple on the Trophy in distress a few weeks ago just because it wasn't a CDory? No one claimed the boat to be at fault (except that manual bilge geeze). But it's just that impression I am feeling here after so many months of reading. Who knows what boating genius might decide to pass on C-brats because it got out of hand. We can josh about tow vehicles, why not about what's being towed? Does it really matter a Chevy 350 actually was designed by a Ford engineer who jumped ship? No. I've seen other members sell their Cdorys for other long time competition and fared much better than this subject.
I see many friendships are in jeopardy right now here at C-Brats. Long deep friendships that should not be stressed by something so trivial. Period. Life is too short, and often the over opinionated eat their words. Careful what the future holds, indeed.
Tastes great, or less filling..who cares!? Raise your water for all I care, the toast is still the same, and I hope you will toast with me.
Many, many thanks for allowing me to hang in the shadows. Back I go until we get our 25 cruiser. I have no intention of offending anyone, I hope to just share some experience I've had watching other forums self destruct and friendships lost over something trivial as a mere opinion.
I look forward to sailing some day with you all. I hope I have not alienated myself from this fine community by speaking my opinion. Only Love and Truth unite.
Matt and Iva
I'm an outsider looking in, I don't have a boat yet but I will at some point. Might I offer some forum etiquette of creating an "off topic" forum. We do this on the many automotive boards I either administrate or post on. Kindly move anything not pertinent to the posters chosen forum to the Off Topic forum. No hard feelings, the rules are now clear and there should be no offense. Everyone understands this is the right of the board owners. Someone is posting here because they need help and value the wealth of knowledge and I applaude the moderators making it clear no one shall be shut out. So make a small corner. This site has information for any boater; electronics don't care what boat they operate in. Radar use applies the same regardless so continue to provide a place to nurture that. Posters that write propaganda and then disappear should be simply deleted, moved, or ignored not fed with anger. A potential purchaser simply wants to make an informed purchase to bes suit their needs; they don't want to hear trash but your honest opinion instead.
How do you know you don't like Liver and Onions if you've never eaten it?
As non owners we have been laying low out of respect. I probably have read almost every post! It's not our realm until we own one. Many of you have been very welcoming to my wife and I. However, IMHO certain comments have not kept it nice; and spark back to the bit of a "click" my wife and I felt at the factory and SBS; especially loose comments alone in a boat by a select few as to what we can or cannot afford considering our age. You're harshing my groove. :smilep Are you not excited for anyone who wants to start a boating hobby? Many, many more of you offered us a ride without knowing us. I choose to form my opinions around those experiences. Whatever motivates the human condition; I fear I see this same attitude over "the boat who's name we shall not speak" (LOL!). We were equally turned off by the trash we got from that manufacturer at the SBS and because of that I wouldn't consider purchasing it even if it were half the cost of the dreamy 25 cruiser.
The Harley vs Indian comment is well put. Imitation is the highest form of flattery. Everything is built on someone else's ideas. Jazz music would not exist if it weren't for "borrowing" other musicians ideas. Miles Davis almost went home after meeting his idol, Charlie Parker, whom he described as unfit for the human race expect when he's on stage. Where would we be without The Birth of the Cool??
My basic point is - again as a complete outsider - please do not let yourselves become the stiflers of information, the keepers of what should be considered information, and the doom-sayers of others' choices.
I thought long and hard before posting how I feel and honestly I feel as if I just showed up on a moped at Sturgis during Harley week even just posting this. I do not think that is the founders intention. The moderators must do a better job to keep it nice, and off topic anything not particular to a C-Dory. Who cares how the competition ended up?! It only better serves us, the consumer. What if that wonderful couple did not save the couple on the Trophy in distress a few weeks ago just because it wasn't a CDory? No one claimed the boat to be at fault (except that manual bilge geeze). But it's just that impression I am feeling here after so many months of reading. Who knows what boating genius might decide to pass on C-brats because it got out of hand. We can josh about tow vehicles, why not about what's being towed? Does it really matter a Chevy 350 actually was designed by a Ford engineer who jumped ship? No. I've seen other members sell their Cdorys for other long time competition and fared much better than this subject.
I see many friendships are in jeopardy right now here at C-Brats. Long deep friendships that should not be stressed by something so trivial. Period. Life is too short, and often the over opinionated eat their words. Careful what the future holds, indeed.
Tastes great, or less filling..who cares!? Raise your water for all I care, the toast is still the same, and I hope you will toast with me.
Many, many thanks for allowing me to hang in the shadows. Back I go until we get our 25 cruiser. I have no intention of offending anyone, I hope to just share some experience I've had watching other forums self destruct and friendships lost over something trivial as a mere opinion.
I look forward to sailing some day with you all. I hope I have not alienated myself from this fine community by speaking my opinion. Only Love and Truth unite.
Matt and Iva
Chris Bulovsky
New member
Dusty- You are an Oak.
All can learn from your wisdom.
Thank you.
Chris Bulovsky
All can learn from your wisdom.
Thank you.
Chris Bulovsky
Matt,
You state them very clearly and make good points. Please don't go away because we welcome newcomers with open arms. Our site is probably not unique, but the site's headline, "Just be nice" is what we are all about.
As a moderator (whatever that is) I know I could do a much better job of keeping this orderly, and we do our best to keep it "spouse readable." I'll try harder.
Appreciate very much your input, and you should plan to attend one of our many gatherings. No boat required, just introduce yourself and come on in. The latchstring is always out.
Gee, I've been riding (oops, ex-riding) BMW for years and can't imagine what would happen to this old dude if I jumped into a Harley nest and told them how much better my BMW is than those noisy, vibrating hunks of junk. And of course it is. Guesss the Hell's Angels would have me as a new member!!! :wink: :wink: Or whatever color toast is...
Again, thanks for your post,
Dusty
You state them very clearly and make good points. Please don't go away because we welcome newcomers with open arms. Our site is probably not unique, but the site's headline, "Just be nice" is what we are all about.
As a moderator (whatever that is) I know I could do a much better job of keeping this orderly, and we do our best to keep it "spouse readable." I'll try harder.
Appreciate very much your input, and you should plan to attend one of our many gatherings. No boat required, just introduce yourself and come on in. The latchstring is always out.
Gee, I've been riding (oops, ex-riding) BMW for years and can't imagine what would happen to this old dude if I jumped into a Harley nest and told them how much better my BMW is than those noisy, vibrating hunks of junk. And of course it is. Guesss the Hell's Angels would have me as a new member!!! :wink: :wink: Or whatever color toast is...
Again, thanks for your post,
Dusty
Matt and Iva,
Very well said. :thup Good observations. :thup
We already have an off topic thread called 'Thats Life' where the posts go away 90 days after the last post.
Perhaps we should have a similar off topic thread for non-C-Dory technical posts. :wink
Newcomers and wannabees: Please don't be scared off, we were all newcomers and wannabees sometime.
Except Dusty, He must have been born with boats in his blood. :teeth
Very well said. :thup Good observations. :thup
We already have an off topic thread called 'Thats Life' where the posts go away 90 days after the last post.
Perhaps we should have a similar off topic thread for non-C-Dory technical posts. :wink
Newcomers and wannabees: Please don't be scared off, we were all newcomers and wannabees sometime.
Except Dusty, He must have been born with boats in his blood. :teeth
willhave1day
New member
Thank you! We have been hoping to butt-in on a couple of your gatherings, however between hosehold chores and the blinding speed of work..well, you know. So we'll bask in your ownership until then.... 