Here They Come

Foggy":1ys2zrs7 said:
"Here" is Northern Michigan.
"They" are electric boats.

We know there are electric outboard motors for boats; also cars, trucks, drones,
planes. If we felt the momentum, we could have (should have?) extrapolated to
boats.

https://www.traverseticker.com/news/sea ... -michigan/

Why Northern Michigan? My guess: clean, clear, unsalted water in a boater's
paradise. Check a map.

Aye.
Click to expand...

You'd think that they would start in the Chesapeake Bay.

Lots of places to go in close proximity, longer season, higher disposable incomes, more potential customers.
 
(30+ knots, or 34.5 miles per hour) and range (up to 100 nautical miles, at slower speeds)
Click to expand...

notice they never mention the low range at a good speed or the low speed of the high range? just toys for the rich and not much good for anything else. The modern internal combustion engine is so clean and reliable I don't know why this electric engine fade is still pushed. zif you are on a no gas motor lake or a small lake I can see it maybe but that would be the only reason.
 
starcrafttom":gy35r0sb said:
(30+ knots, or 34.5 miles per hour) and range (up to 100 nautical miles, at slower speeds)
Click to expand...

notice they never mention the low range at a good speed or the low speed of the high range? just toys for the rich and not much good for anything else. The modern internal combustion engine is so clean and reliable I don't know why this electric engine fade is still pushed. zif you are on a no gas motor lake or a small lake I can see it maybe but that would be the only reason.
Click to expand...

More and more lakes are turning to electric only for allowed mechanical propulsion. Some places your boat can't even have a gas motor mounted on it, even if you don't use it.
 
You'd think that they would start in the Chesapeake Bay.

Lots of places to go in close proximity, longer season, higher disposable incomes, more potential customers.
Click to expand...

...and thousands of miles of coastline, many miles of open water, significant tides, currents, rough water, and pop-up storms.

I'll take propulsion in the air and on water refined over a century for now, thanks.
 
Don't care much for electric boats?
How about the rapidly evolving eco-friendly electric outboard motors you can
place on the stern of your C-Dory?
https://boattest.com/article/vision-mar ... powertrain

These VMT electric motors are soon to be available on Four Winns boats, Cadillac,
MI based and owned by Groupe Beneteau with existing plans for expansion to
other boat lines.
https://boattest.com/article/vmt-electr ... e=hs_email

So, things are changing as they always do. Many are excited. Many are not.
It's always been that way.

Aye.
 
These motors just might be 'the thing' for those who disliked the often tight
squeeze around vehicles and pumps refueling your boat on your trailer.
No more inconveniences trying to save $ avoiding marine fuel prices.

And forget those underway MPG calculations. With all electric, it's M/kWh.
A chance to learn something new. You'll love it. It's coming and here to stay.

Aye.
 
I'm fine with options.

I just don't think it's fair to assume one option is "eco-friendly" and the other is not when the term is so ambiguous as to be pointless.

It's also unfair to assume that everyone in all cases will adopt and apply technology at the same rate and for the same purposes. I still like my mechanical-wind watch. I prefer "steam gauges" on an airplane as a backup. I read paper maps, but have Garmin products on my boat, bike, and airplanes.

It's not all good v.s all bad, and sadly, it seems this topic presumes that one side is butterflies and puffy clouds while the other is noxious fumes, piles of toxins, and global extermination.
 
Sorry about your feelings of unfairness. FYI I have no feelings pro or con about
this newer marine technology. I have not recommended electric boats or electric
outboard motors. I have posted about it as a matter of interest for others who
may want to learn something they may not be aware of.

Actually, I have mentioned, in some previous post, "there is no perfect boat" which
I still hold as true. Even if there were a perfect boat, not all would agree or want it.

Aye.
Grandma used to say, "Less is more."
 
I wonder if somebody will make a 90HP electric outboard that would work on a C-Dory. And what will the battery weigh? What if you could boat once a week and recharge from a solar panel on the roof?
 
Foggy":116nlthm said:
Sorry about your feelings of unfairness. FYI I have no feelings pro or con about this newer marine technology.
Click to expand...

Misquote: I said it is unfair to describe electric as "eco-friendly" and assume IC engines are not. In fact, it's clear electric motors are superficially "green" as they appear to have no visible emissions while shielding operators from the generation, transmission, and storage of energy.

*Everything* has an impact on the environment. We had our C-22 on the St Lawrence River last week above the Eisenhower lock and Power Authority dams. The Seaway project flooded thousands of acres, rerouted rivers, blocked fish migration, and enabled the introduction of invasive species (such as the Zebra mussel and lamprey). All to generate electric power. The Baie James project in Quebec installed massive dams to harness hydro power, then built a continuous prallel string of ugly towers from the far north all the way to NYC.

The environment is not a static museum display. It's an ever-changing system of systems. All we can do is make choices based on the knowledge and resources available at the time.
 
daninPA":1l4i03mw said:
Foggy":1l4i03mw said:
Sorry about your feelings of unfairness. FYI I have no feelings pro or con about this newer marine technology.
Click to expand...

Misquote: I said it is unfair to describe electric as "eco-friendly" and assume IC engines are not. In fact, it's clear electric motors are superficially "green" as they appear to have no visible emissions while shielding operators from the generation, transmission, and storage of energy.

*Everything* has an impact on the environment. We had our C-22 on the St Lawrence River last week above the Eisenhower lock and Power Authority dams. The Seaway project flooded thousands of acres, rerouted rivers, blocked fish migration, and enabled the introduction of invasive species (such as the Zebra mussel and lamprey). All to generate electric power. The Baie James project in Quebec installed massive dams to harness hydro power, then built a continuous prallel string of ugly towers from the far north all the way to NYC.

The environment is not a static museum display. It's an ever-changing system of systems. All we can do is make choices based on the knowledge and resources available at the time.
Click to expand...

It seems you have a battery of grievances.
I am not here to convince you otherwise.

Aye.
 
Foggy":1mh4lbbn said:
daninPA":1mh4lbbn said:
Foggy":1mh4lbbn said:
Sorry about your feelings of unfairness. FYI I have no feelings pro or con about this newer marine technology.
Click to expand...

Misquote: I said it is unfair to describe electric as "eco-friendly" and assume IC engines are not. In fact, it's clear electric motors are superficially "green" as they appear to have no visible emissions while shielding operators from the generation, transmission, and storage of energy.

*Everything* has an impact on the environment. We had our C-22 on the St Lawrence River last week above the Eisenhower lock and Power Authority dams. The Seaway project flooded thousands of acres, rerouted rivers, blocked fish migration, and enabled the introduction of invasive species (such as the Zebra mussel and lamprey). All to generate electric power. The Baie James project in Quebec installed massive dams to harness hydro power, then built a continuous prallel string of ugly towers from the far north all the way to NYC.

The environment is not a static museum display. It's an ever-changing system of systems. All we can do is make choices based on the knowledge and resources available at the time.
Click to expand...

It seems you have a battery of grievances.
I am not here to convince you otherwise.

Aye.
Click to expand...

An argument is not a grievance. It's a set of propositions that together form a point. The point is rather simple: not everyone is on the all-electric-now bandwagon, and for very good reasons.

It's likely that >99% of vessels listed on this site are powered by IC engines using gasoline or diesel with no change in powerplant planned anytime soon without significant compulsion.

Many of us would give up the motorboat if we were so compelled. This would be a shame, given the joy, adventure, and exposure to the watery world afforded by these wonderful machines.

I've paddled canoes multiple days over thousands of miles. I'm a bit past that now and am immensely enjoying my gas-powered C-Dory.
 
If I could convert my 22 cruiser to electric propulsion that would give similar performance and range and a reasonable recharge time for about the equivalent price as replacing my current Honda 90 with a new one, I'd be all for going electric.

However, none of that is possible. Yet.
 
I asked about electric motor range and one manufacturer told me consumers have “range anxiety”. I was put off by that, as surely theres an over the counter prescription for that in 2022. could they not just sell me the motors with extra batteries? Indeed they can. With an extra 4-6 feet of boat to haul the extra batteries, but it would not increase my range because my boat weight increased along with the batteries! Thats crazy I told them! YOU have battery capacity anxiety! Or at the very least some serious weight issues. They found that weight comment offensive and stopped answering my range questions.
Look, I said. I’m no snowflake. I can handle the reality that I may have range issues…But you’ve got to come to terms with your weight issues and stop pretending you’re some trim and young nautical propulsion and face the facts: you are aging a bit about the water line and need a little infusion of cash to get yourself to the big leagues and convince the Pay-a-lot and go a short ways people that you “still got it baby”. guess their target consumers are mostly people who like to pay for a lot of fuel to go short distances and then go back to a dock to buy more fuel to go more short distances. Also, probably skinny people.

I would absolutely LOVE an electric motor with cdory range (anxiety) and solar recharge (insecurity). I would surrender speed for inside passage range in a power boat, and there are several prototypes and project boats that can do that. I guess the target consumer market of “too frugal to buy a lot of excess fuel” “too slow to be flashy” and “too lazy to learn to sail” are not at the top of the list yet! And that’s fine, we will be one day when the go fast boats realize they can go faster for longer (performance anxiety!?) on fossil fuel. All this to say: the electric motor manufacturers may not even understand who it is that really wants or would promote these motors. (That’d be me). The same people paying 200k for a van and installing 10k in solar to replace a 50$ camp stove and a pickup truck with a camper top would buy their FIRST boat if it were an electric Boat like a cdory that could charge on the sun or wind. Just opinions.
 
Thanks, daninPA, for explaining how a grievance differs from an argument* -->
a set of propositions --> a point. For me, when 'points' contain mostly extremes
*everything*, all cases, all-electric-now, it's clear, All, >99%, no change, All we can do
Click to expand...
they lose value and my interest.

It seems to me new electric technology is here. It is going to take time to gain a
following. More will come on board as advantages increase and problems
decrease. Not everyone will like it. New means death of old which causes fear
for some.

Aye.
*Grandma used to say, "Conflict is inevitable. Arguing is optional."
 
“New means death of old which causes fear
for some. “

Absolutely agree. This is happening in the boat world with regards to electric motors but in the cdory world its probably less fearful and more just not wanting a less capable machine. I have seriously considered going electric, and the reality for me is: to have electric outboards and get where I most often boat I would by necessity be on more of a sailing timeline. There are no shore charging options. We would cruise slowly, charge for an entire day or two, then cruise slowly again. The tech is there right now for this to happen. The 22 is probably not the best platform for this with two growing kids and a dog, but it could do it. But if I wanted to go 4kts EVERYWHERE and then wait for conditions (charged battery), a sailboat would be a serious competitor to electric. I’d probably lean towards electric.
 
I've sailed and if under full canvas I could go only 4 knots, I'd crank the Yanmar.
Subconsciously, I knew someday I'd be in a powerboat.

But I know that "sailing timeline". That's when you plan your entire day under
sail toward your destination. When it's in sight, usually toward dusk, you have
a couple power boats pass you, pull into the marina you wanted and take the last
available slips. Rafting off in the marinas wasn't as bad as all the good seats at
the local watering hole were taken, as well as the prettiest women. So, I took beer
and women with me becoming a "gunkholer" (marinas only if necessary). Then the
4 knot thing and walking on rope got to me so I switched to powerboats.

If you watch that VMT electric motor video, you'll see being stuck at Sam Devlin's
boat speed is only an option.

Aye.
 
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