Help with shore power plug

I ordered the "charger" plug today...actually ordered 2 of them. Amazon had them for like $17 each direct from Amazon. I might just put one on each side and get another GFI box.
 
flapbreaker":27lth9v0 said:
Mike is correct that you have to be carefull with the above system. You can't treat it like you have a true shore power system. I definately wouldn't leave the boat unattended nor pull more than 15amps through the system. It is my understanding that the 15amp breaker will trip before overheating the cgfi cable that is wired into the 30amp outlet. I don't plan on testing this theory as I would only use the shore power cable to charge the batteries and maybe run a light or two. Maybe I'm mistaken but I'm under the impression that you would have to actually have a load greater than 15amps to cause a problem in the wiring. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

If the cord is plugged into a 30 amp outlet and something damages the
cord and causes a short, how are you going to prevent more than 15
amps from flowing?

In any case, for most of us on CD-22s, the issue isn't (un)intentional
overloading. It is short circuits and getting the breaker to trip instead of
turning the wire into a fire starting heating element.

Danger, Will Robinson, danger (I probably sound like a robot on
this topic :-) )

If I was dead set on plugging a 14 gauge wire into a 30 amp outlet, I'd
probably come up with a way to mount a 15 amp breaker in a box.
Use 10 gauge and a 30 amp connector to the outlet and 15 amp rated
materials to the boat. That would be safe if well built. (I think -
I'm not an electrician).

Mike
 
mikeporterinmd":lujrnnyc said:
If the cord is plugged into a 30 amp outlet and something damages the
cord and causes a short, how are you going to prevent more than 15
amps from flowing?
Mike
Click to expand...


In my setup the CGFI has a 15 amp breaker in it so that should trip. The weak link in my system is the chord from the CGFI being wired into the 30amp outlet. However, short of a short (pun intended) it is my understanding that just because you plug into 30amp service doesn't mean you automatically are pulling 30amps. Don't you have to actually have a load, on the boat that pulls the amps in? If I'm just running the wallas and a few lights then I don't see how I could pull 30 amps. Never the less, I'm not sure I'll ever plug into shore power. It does work great for pluging the boat in at home.
 
You are correct the load on your extension cord carries will only be the sum of the items you have turned on in your boat. As long as your adapters are in good shape you should be okay. I wouldn't use the adapters for a permenant installation. On another note circuit breakers are mechanical devices that are prone to failure especially in a marine environment. I've seen extension cords melt all the way back to the receptacle without tripping a breaker. With a properly installed system the likelyhood of a short circuit is pretty remote. Make sure you use a good quality extension cord preferably #12 with good molded attachment caps (plugs) and no longer than needed.
 
flapbreaker":333n09ps said:
[
In my setup the CGFI has a 15 amp breaker in it so that should trip. The weak link in my system is the chord from the CGFI being wired into the 30amp outlet.
Click to expand...

Right. If the cord is damaged - say gets caught between the rubrail and
a piling, you will have a dangerous situation. The closer you move the
CFGI to the 30 amp outlet, the safer you are.

Mike
 
One thing to think about is what you are attempting to do is being done in every home in america. Your table lamp probably has a 18 gauge cord good for 5 amps and it's plugged into a plug with either a 15 or most likely 20 amp breaker. Your vaccum cleaner may have a 16 gauge cord good for 10 amps plugged into a 20 amp breaker. Of course in a marine environment you want things right. I really think what you are describing is safe provided common sense and proper precautions are taken. As has been said before 99% of problems occur at the plugs and adapters. Make sure your plugs are in good condition and plugged in securely and take precautions to insure your cord doesn't get pinched as was mentioned.
 
Two thoughts:

1. The West Marine West Advisor has a lot of information on Trouble Shooting Shore Power Connections that is a valuable resource that is found not only on the web connection linked, but also on page 433 of their current catalogue.

2. Have any of you with GFCI units found any reason to by-pass the units?

I set mine up so it could be by-passed in the series of incoming connections when plugging into my Honda 1000i generator. The standard advice is that the GFCI gets confused because the generator does not have a true ground, or has a "floating ground", if you prefer that terminology.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
My greatest safety concern with shore power plugs is their location. I lost two of them to overheating due to corrosion when they were mounted below the gunnel. In this location they were constantly sprayed with salt water and difficult to keep dry inside. After the second failure I moved the outlet to the back of the cabin and haven't had another problem. :wink
 
marvin4239":cleevtif said:
One thing to think about is what you are attempting to do is being done in every home in america. Your table lamp probably has a 18 gauge cord good for 5 amps and it's plugged into a plug with either a 15 or most likely 20 amp breaker. Your vaccum cleaner may have a 16 gauge cord good for 10 amps plugged into a 20 amp breaker. Of course in a marine environment you want things right. I really think what you are describing is safe provided common sense and proper precautions are taken. As has been said before 99% of problems occur at the plugs and adapters. Make sure your plugs are in good condition and plugged in securely and take precautions to insure your cord doesn't get pinched as was mentioned.
Click to expand...

I'd be surprised to find an 18 gauge power cord with a 15 amp plug on the end
that was commercially made and carrying an UL sticker. The low voltage cable
from my laptop power supply probably is. But, the cord from the power
supply to the wall appears to be 16. I would image the low voltage
output is overload protected somehow.

Any lamp I ever worked on was 16.

The rule is simple. Any wire you use must be able to carry the current
that the upstream breaker trips at without becoming a hazard. Any
time you violate this rule, you create a hazard and could start a fire
if a short develops. Exactly what gauge of wire is needed depends
on the insulation type, the bundling and where the wire runs. There are
very different ratings for a wire in a chassis vs. an extension cord.
Plugging in anything other than a properly made 10 gauge 30 amp
cord into a shore power receptacle is dangerous. In my opinion, if you
start a fire, you should be held liable.

We've had marinas burn because of stuff like this, and I personally
saw two people die, perhaps, although I don't know for certain, from
an improper shore power setup (the fire was electrical, but I don't know
if it was due to improper maintenance or owner design flaws, or
even DC related. I never saw the fire chief's report.)

Mike
 
The job is probably all wrapped up by now. But Thataway is right. I had the Hunky Dory for seven years the 30 amp system was installed at the factory. The cord was so bulky and all adapters were so expensive. I, like Flapbreaker, always used the short reducer cord, and carried a small Number 12 extension cord. Even when using an electric heater. 30 amps were totally unnessesary with the 22 ft'er.

Mike does your laptop have a built in transformer on it's cord? What you are saying is dangerous is what happens in your house at every receptical. The smallest breaker in you house is probably 15 amp. 20 amp for appliances in the kitchen.
captd
 
captd":1sqi7lgt said:
The job is probably all wrapped up by now. But Thataway is right. I had the Hunky Dory for seven years the 30 amp system was installed at the factory. The cord was so bulky and all adapters were so expensive. I, like Flapbreaker, always used the short reducer cord, and carried a small Number 12 extension cord. Even when using an electric heater. 30 amps were totally unnessesary with the 22 ft'er.

Mike does your laptop have a built in transformer on it's cord? What you are saying is dangerous is what happens in your house at every receptical. The smallest breaker in you house is probably 15 amp. 20 amp for appliances in the kitchen.
captd
Click to expand...

30 amps are unnecessary. However, that is what the outlets supply.
A 50' 30 amp cord can be nicely rolled up and stored in a small gym
bag. It doesn't get tangled up in other stuff that way. A 30 amp 50' cord
costs, what, $70 or so?

A 12 gauge cord may not be dangerous. I'd have to look it up. Since no one
actually makes a 12 gauge 30 amp cord, at least one that is UL rated,
one would assume it is dangerous. You can't seriously argue no one
makes something that would save copper because, what, companies
don't like to make cheapest possible device?

Don't confuse the draw you are purposely putting on the line with the
draw that could occur if there is a fault. Two different concepts.
The draw that could occur if a fault occurs is 30 amps, plain and
simple.

My laptop power supply is UL certified. The low voltage output is not
dangerous if the power supply has protection built in. See my previous
posts. This is a perfectly valid way of reducing the size of the wire needed
to a device while still having a safe installation. You could easily build
a small box with a 30 amp 10 gauge connector to the outlet, a 15 amp
breaker and 14 gauge output cord. Properly made, such a device would
be safe. But, it would hard to build for $70 if you have to buy the
parts.

Perhaps one of us should write to Seaworthy and get them to do an
article on the subject? I can't believe their case files don't contain
instances of fires caused by invalid shore power adapters.

Mike
 
Just to be clear, I have no intention of trying to plug into 30 amp service using a plain ol' extension cord. I did buy a 25' 30 amp shore power cable. I only use the 30amp to extension cord adapter to plug the boat in at home to charge the batteries. I wasn't sure if I was clear on that in the beginning.
 
I have a question, what is needed to duplicate the factory shorepower setup? Obviously Shore power cord, inlet, 30 amp breaker and a GFCI outlet, but what else? Galvanic Isolator? I have Nigel Calders book, But cant seem to figure out exactly what I need to setup my shore power.

Sark
 
marvin4239":100awl2e said:
Factory setup now comes with a Galvanic Isolator. You'll need a distribution panel also.
Click to expand...

The power inlet is a Marinco 30 AMP model 304EL-B

The Galvanic Isolator is Guest Model 2433

There are actually two panels one is for the 30 DP main breaker which switches the neutral as well as the hot wire. This panel feeds the distribution panel which is a 3 circuit distribution panel with 1 5 amp breakers and 1 10 amp and 1 15 amp breaker. One breaker is for the GFI the other is for the on board Guest 20 amp battery charger. The panels are made by SEA DOG and have no model number on them that I could find without removing them. They are about 4'' by 6''. You can see a picture of them in my album in the modifications first picture.
 
The Sea Dog panel numbers are 423132 for the distribution panel it also has a reverse polarity light. The distribution panel number is 423142 and has a 5 amp 10 amp and 15 amp breaker.
 
flapbreaker":mlyrtqe2 said:
Just to be clear, I have no intention of trying to plug into 30 amp service using a plain ol' extension cord. I did buy a 25' 30 amp shore power cable. I only use the 30amp to extension cord adapter to plug the boat in at home to charge the batteries. I wasn't sure if I was clear on that in the beginning.
Click to expand...

Oh! Well, of course. That's perfectly fine since you either have a 15 or
20 amp breaker. I do that all the time.

Mike
 
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