hard starting honda 90

terraplane

New member
I'ld like to try again for some input..
Hoda 90...has always started by putting on choke at stearing station, sometimes slightly pulling out choke on engine in winter...
Now, when i hit the starter it roars to life and then dies...after about six of these false starts it finally starts..when it is out an running it purrs.

I do pump the ball, gas is good, and i have dumped in carburetor cleaner..
Any ideas?
 
terraplane":3am46j0s said:
I'ld like to try again for some input..
Hoda 90...has always started by putting on choke at stearing station, sometimes slightly pulling out choke on engine in winter...
Now, when i hit the starter it roars to life and then dies...after about six of these false starts it finally starts..when it is out an running it purrs.

I do pump the ball, gas is good, and i have dumped in carburetor cleaner..
Any ideas?

That sounds like a choke problem?
The choke at the controls & the knob on the engine do the exact same thing. The remote choke at the controls, uses a solinoid to opperate the choke lever. On my Honda 90 the solinoid plunger was rusty & would not pull the lever down so no remote choke. Try pulling the manual choke lever out all the way & see how it starts :mrgreen: :beer I fixed mine forever by switching to a Yamaha F 100 :wink:
 
terraplane,

Every motor has a personality. On my Yami's, I pump up the primer bulbs till hard to ensure that I get all 4 vertically stacked carb float bowls filled with gas. Then I disengage the throttle-shift control to be throttle only, give it two to three 1/3 throttle pumps, then return to a point just providing a slight amount of throttle. Usually starts right up.

Give it a try. If that doesn't resolve it, maybe you do have a choke problem.
 
I spent three frustrating years with a new hard starting Honda 75. I was unhappy from the day I got it and learned it had carbs instead of fuel injection. It started hard winter or summer, and only started easily when warm. I heard from many others of similar frustration.

I solved the problem this spring by getting a new Honda 90 WITH fuel injection. What a huge difference! It starts very easy, runs smooth, has more power, AND gets better fuel economy. I went from 4.5 mph to a max of 6.5 mpg. Honda got it right.

So, best I can say is use it up and replace it.

Dave
 
I had similar problems with a Honda 90. Not any more.

Powered_by_Suzuki.sized.jpg
 
Does the BandWagon still have room?

Once you've owned a modern, fuel injected, computer controlled, large outboard, you'll never go back to carburetors!

Any carburetor can be temperamental, but four carburetors for four cylinders? Whazis? A 1950's Ferrari?

I campaigned right here for years to point out that I thought Honda was dragging its feet, until they added EFI this year!

Joe. (2005 Yamaha EFI 90)

img_F90.jpg
 
Sally's Sister:

If you partially engage the manual choke, and then engage the choke at the helm, you're at full choke when starting. When you back off the lever at the helm, the electric actuator (solenoid) goes completely off, and the motor is choked at whatever level you set by the manual control. With just a little engagement of the manual, the choke range goes from "full", where the motor starts, to "little", where the motor stops. You might try giving the manual choke more engagement, so that the initial step down from "full" is less.

If that doesn't work, here's a more long-winded approach. We're dealing with a problem that is electrical, mechanical, or fuel related, or some combination of these. What can you eliminate, when the same startup procedure is being used, but with a different result than before?

Forget electrical, if for no other reason than none of us are capable of doing too much about it, other than confirming that there's a spark, which there obviously is, or the motor would either fail to start, or run much rougher than what we're experiencing. Also, I take very good care of the electrical components, replace plugs each year (they're always good, properly adjusted, consistent in appearance, and fairly clean when pulled), and keep the timing belt adjusted. But, I sometimes experience the same problem you describe.

Mechanical can also be eliminated, at least by me, because I am very particular about keeping everything in the fuel delivery and control system adjusted, carbs synced, etc. The idle fuel mixture has been richened slightly by a factory licensed mechanic to eliminate the typical hard start tendencies of this motor, and those tendencies always presented in the form of a "typical" hard cold start, but never a clear start, followed by stopping.

That, IMO, leaves the fuel system. Here, I've noticed a distinct change when running ethanol blended gas, to the point that I now try to avoid taking on fuel in both tanks from the same refueling location, so that if I find I've taken on bad fuel, I can either burn it when on a high speed run, and switch to the good tank when docking, or merely run on one tank, until I can get the bad fuel out at home, and burn it in the lawn tractor.

I have tried using middle range octane fuel, with very poor results. The motor might run well on the higher octane fuel, but it's almost impossible to start. One tank cured me of that experiment. You might check to see if you're getting mid-grade fuel, and if so, switch back to the lower octane level of "regular".

Although I always use a fuel stabilizer, I've found that some loads of fuel burn well (i.e., clean starts, which stick), others simply don't. What I now do, if there are any starting problems, is drain the gas out of the carb bowls, and try again. Believe it or not, this usually works, and the cure is not merely the result of the motor heating up while I'm draining the fuel. Draining before trying to start also helps. I don't recommend doing this each day, because it's a pain. But, if the boat has not been run in some time, it's worth the trouble. Just to make this easy, I've connected clear plastic drain tubes to carbs #1-3, and leave them in place. That way, I can catch the fuel drained from those carbs, and then go to the outside of the motor, and there catch the drainage from #4, which is already connected to a tube.

Let us know what you find out.
 
Thanks to allfor the advice..I will now embark on a step by step try of all solutions. I'll let you know.
The motor is serviced every 100 hours..(now has just over 300) by a factory trained and very good mechanic...
I once owned a 1959 Austin Healey Sprite...this reminds me of that car at times.

Terraplane
 
The good news about starting the hard-start BF75 and BF90, according to Les at EQ, is that you are not likely to flood when you are cranking with the choke on. That had always been a concern of mine.

Dave
 
It doesn't take an engineer to know the all or nothing approach(solenoid) to a choke is not the way to keep the engine running when cold started. Mine (Honda 90) has always started but always been difficult to keep it running until 3 or 4 starts gets it warm enough to continue running. Poor choke control design, in my opinion. I've owned lawnmowers with better choke/fast idle controls than the Honda.
 
Moxieabs":27cehqnz said:
It doesn't take an engineer to know the all or nothing approach(solenoid) to a choke is not the way to keep the engine running when cold started. Mine (Honda 90) has always started but always been difficult to keep it running until 3 or 4 starts gets it warm enough to continue running. Poor choke control design, in my opinion. I've owned lawnmowers with better choke/fast idle controls than the Honda.

This is a great point!

Every carbureatored (sp.) engine I've ever had, particularly a two cycle, or small engine, required a good deal of finesse playing the choke from where the motor will start down to the "no-choke" position, and required several starts to get the learning curve down and be able to start the engine easily. Comes with the territory!

Joe. :thup :teeth
 
My Yamaha 80's (same as the newer 75's) with carbs has started flawlessly for 5 years now. It has no choke, rather an enrichment circuit, seems to work great. Maybe Honda should've 'borrowed' that idea?

Mute point now with EFI...and...I don't want to start a Honda vs Yami war, paaaaleeese, both are fine engines, each with their own pluses and minuses.
 
For those who are interested, I have 2004 Honda, 40 hp, engines on my boat. They are carbureted, no choke, and use an enrichment system for cold starting. I have had trouble cold starting these engines since new and have had them adjusted by the dealer several times under warranty to no avail. I recently was contacted by my dealer and he advised me that Honda has redesigned the system, changing the top plate of #1 carb and the fuel valve to allow more gas to flow into #1 cylinder. Honda has been silent on the modification but apparently will cover them under warranty, if you complain. Over the years I have learned to compensated for this poor design by compressing the fuel bulb between my hands as hard as I could and pumping the throttle quickly several times. I found that this was the only way to get gas into a cold engine. Warm, these engines start every time.

Best regards
 
I have 2002 40HP Hondas and know what Moxiecabs is talking about. The choke lever at the throttle is spring loaded to off so when cold starting you have to keep playing with it up and down to keep the engine running. The other option is set the choke manually on the engine. Then you have to play with the throttle to keep the RPM from going to the redline on a cold engine. Definitely not a good system.
 
A question for Honda owners,

Does anyone have a parts breakdown for the Honda carbs?
Is there actually an accelerator pump in the carb?

When I was repairing 2 cycle outboards(Johnson-Evinrude), many customers thought that 'pumping' the throttle handle was pumping gas into the engine, like a carbureted automobile.

In fact, 2 cycle outboard carbs did not have an accelerator pump, so 'pumping' the throttle handle did nothing except put wear on the cables and parts.

The 2 cycle outboards required 'full choke' to start and if the choke plates did not fully close, the motors would not start if cold.

From this discussion, it seems that the carbureted Hondas also require the choke plates to be fully closed. I would start there to troubleshoot hard cold starting. With the front of the carb exposed, activate the choke from the helm and then tap or press on the choke plate to ensure that the plate is fully closed.
 
Hi Larry,

Regarding the 2004 and newer Honda 40's with the fuel enrichment system there are no accelerator pumps on the carburetors. There is also no choke. It doesn't make sense, I agree, that without an accelerator pump, advancing the throttle should not work, but with these engines it does. Particlarly after you pump the gas bulb as hard as you can. I have been told this by a couple of Honda mechanics as well as other Honda 40 owners with the enrichment system. For some reason this procedure forces gas into the #1 carb. It works for me and I know it works for Mark/Not For Hire. If you would like a copy for the Honda carbureter schematic, I can post it it the Technical Photo Section.

Best regards,
 
Larry,

I tried to post but got the following error message. I have posted for 4 years with no problems, until now. I don't know what has changed and I am too tired to deal with it. I will deal with it later

Sorry .

Best regards,
Rollie


Processing status
******Adding docu0263.jpg*****

Resizing/compressing original image
No resizing required
Error: Invalid image: docu0263.jpg
Need help? Look in the Gallery FAQ
******Adding Honda40carb1.jpg*****

Resizing/compressing original image
No resizing required
Error: Invalid image: Honda40carb1.jpg
Need help? Look in the Gallery FAQ
 
I have a ritual I go through starting my Honda 90 that seems to work well for all weather:

Drop the motor, drain the water separator, connect fuel line, pump the bulb.

pop the cowl, check the goodies, and give the bulb another shot.

Work the console and wheel a few times to make sure they're clear.

bring up the fast-start lever, and crank it. If it doesn't take off on the first or 2nd crank, give the bulb another pump and play with the fast start lever.

replace the cowl, stow gear and start electronics. Engine is settled in by now.

That's about as much drama as I have with it. I might choke it just enough to get the fuel flowing in really cold weather, but overall it's a happy little motor. Great Alaska rig. I just wish it had a higher output alternator.

But I carry a can of ether anyway, cuz if you suck water into the carbs while you're underway, getting it going again can be a very special experience.
 
Back
Top