I have been reading many Ships logs from folks who have done the great loop. So far everyone is going in a 35-40 foot boats and I plan to do it in a CD-22, what differences should I keep in mind? I will be single handing the trip and I only see advantages to a small boat, less chance of grounding, less worry about tides and low water, easy to maneuver and anchor. The only disadvantages I can see are in some of the non-protected waters along the east coast. What else? Does anyone have a book recommendation?
Great Loop Question
- Thread starter Gregw
- Start date
Hi Greg,
There are plenty of resources regarding the Great Loop. Do a Google Search, and you will come up with enough reading to keep you busy for quite a while. In fact, there was a recent loop thread right here that had a lot of good links for your reading pleasure...
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=7683&highlight=
Your 22 should be a good fit for the loop. The only downside I can think of is... um... er... OK, there IS no downside!
People have done it in boats smaller than your 22.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
There are plenty of resources regarding the Great Loop. Do a Google Search, and you will come up with enough reading to keep you busy for quite a while. In fact, there was a recent loop thread right here that had a lot of good links for your reading pleasure...
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=7683&highlight=
Your 22 should be a good fit for the loop. The only downside I can think of is... um... er... OK, there IS no downside!
People have done it in boats smaller than your 22. Best wishes,
Jim B.
Yeah a ton of material out there. I've tried every combination of words I can think of in Google to find small boat info on the loop. I find almost exclusively info on cruises in big boats. Maybe there just isn't enough difference to worry or think about. I just figured there would be advice that could make the trip more enjoyable and safer too.
Maybe places a shallow draft boat can explore that a 40' 46 Nordhavn has to skip. Also height clearance, the C-dory should be able to go under many bridges that the big boats can't, possibly safe anchorages in a storm. I bet there are marinas out there that a C-dory can pull right into and big boats need to use a dingy?? The big boats have showers and washer/dryers, how often are marinas equipped with these facilities? That's the sort of stuff I've been thinking about on my cold winters Sunday.
Maybe places a shallow draft boat can explore that a 40' 46 Nordhavn has to skip. Also height clearance, the C-dory should be able to go under many bridges that the big boats can't, possibly safe anchorages in a storm. I bet there are marinas out there that a C-dory can pull right into and big boats need to use a dingy?? The big boats have showers and washer/dryers, how often are marinas equipped with these facilities? That's the sort of stuff I've been thinking about on my cold winters Sunday.
Captains Cat
New member
Greg, lots of Marinas have showers and laundry facilities.... Also, on Google, if you do the search on the great loop, you can go to the bottom of the page and narrow it down by searching "within the results" for things like small boat, etc, etc. That is easier than putting it in the search at the beginning...
Charlie
Charlie
For a good cruising guide of the East Coast portion, look at "Managing the Waterway"...
http://www.managingthewaterway.com/
We used their cruising guide in the Florida Keys and it had great info on land stuff as well as water (such as: laundromats, grocery stores, etc). Also outstanding suggestions for anchorages and marina info.
Another good source is the Waterway guidebooks...
http://www.waterwayguide.com/
None of these will be particularly small boat oriented, but I think you'll find that you are not the only boat your size out there. The charts will give you info on bridge clearances, the guidebooks can provide other good info, and you will meet plenty of folks along the way who will suggest their favorites that may not be in any book.
Unlike RVing or a road trip in a car, there is no TrailerLife Campground Guide or AAA routing that covers the whole trip. We've found the various cruising guides to be great resources.
Hope this helps.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
http://www.managingthewaterway.com/
We used their cruising guide in the Florida Keys and it had great info on land stuff as well as water (such as: laundromats, grocery stores, etc). Also outstanding suggestions for anchorages and marina info.
Another good source is the Waterway guidebooks...
http://www.waterwayguide.com/
None of these will be particularly small boat oriented, but I think you'll find that you are not the only boat your size out there. The charts will give you info on bridge clearances, the guidebooks can provide other good info, and you will meet plenty of folks along the way who will suggest their favorites that may not be in any book.
Unlike RVing or a road trip in a car, there is no TrailerLife Campground Guide or AAA routing that covers the whole trip. We've found the various cruising guides to be great resources.
Hope this helps.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
Greg,
Whatever applies to the larger craft should serve as a benchmark for a C-Dory, of sorts. You are also right in that you can go places where the big boys can't and you can seek shelter in smaller creeks and coves where the skinny water keeps the larger craft away. That is also a distinct advantage, too, especially when you are seeking privacy.
Cruising on any small boat requires a certain amount of discretion. We have not taken Valkyrie on any long cruises, but our home waters, Lake Erie, can be challenging at times and also downright vengeful. Yes, there are times when you may stay at anchor or in a marina when waiting out bad weather.
While our boats can handle the rough stuff, usually the owners, ourselves included, can't handle it as well as the boat and it doesn't make sense to go out there and get beat up and uncomfortable.
That being said, I spent two years cruising a small (23'11") sailboat from Lake Erie to the Keys and Bahamas and back. In that time frame, there were probably only a dozen or so times that I stayed in protected areas when larger craft were venturing out and often they returned to the comfort of the harbor, as well.
Also, a distinct advantage of small power craft used for cruising is their speed advantage over sail. With the ability of cruising in the teens and sometimes higher, you can avoid coming bad weather where slower boats, like trawlers and sailboats can't.
Re: marinas. Most have showers and many have washers and dryers. However, you will find that your needs while cruising will be greatly simplified. On my long cruise I found that if I could change underwear and socks on a daily basis and shave and get cleaned up, I was okay with wearing a shirt for a second day. Don't forget, there are often laundromats within walking distance of marinas or anchorages and many marinas have courtesy cars for short trips.
Also, you can do laundry aboard in a bucket in small quantities. While in remote locations in the Bahamas I did laundry by putting it in a black garbage bag with water and soap and let it sit in the sun to soak. Remember, you won't be far from civilization on the Loop.
Re:showers. Most cruising boats without an onboard shower carry a Sun Shower, which is a great thing to have aboard and not just for sunny days. Often we have taken warm showers aboard or when camping in the boonies by pouring warm water into the shower.
A friendly and polite comment: your question about marinas and their facilities has me wondering about your boating experience. When you get your boat, plan on spending at least a season or two cruising and getting experience before heading out on a big trip like the Loop. Even with my decades of sailing experience on the Great Lakes and in the Caribbean, I found myself well behind the learning curve a time or two when dealing with heavy tidal current and woke up a few times at a 45 degree list when I anchored and didn't consider the state of the tide. We get very little of that in Ohio.
Good luck and keep asking those questions and don't give up your dream.
Regards,
Nick
"Valkyrie"
Whatever applies to the larger craft should serve as a benchmark for a C-Dory, of sorts. You are also right in that you can go places where the big boys can't and you can seek shelter in smaller creeks and coves where the skinny water keeps the larger craft away. That is also a distinct advantage, too, especially when you are seeking privacy.
Cruising on any small boat requires a certain amount of discretion. We have not taken Valkyrie on any long cruises, but our home waters, Lake Erie, can be challenging at times and also downright vengeful. Yes, there are times when you may stay at anchor or in a marina when waiting out bad weather.
While our boats can handle the rough stuff, usually the owners, ourselves included, can't handle it as well as the boat and it doesn't make sense to go out there and get beat up and uncomfortable.
That being said, I spent two years cruising a small (23'11") sailboat from Lake Erie to the Keys and Bahamas and back. In that time frame, there were probably only a dozen or so times that I stayed in protected areas when larger craft were venturing out and often they returned to the comfort of the harbor, as well.
Also, a distinct advantage of small power craft used for cruising is their speed advantage over sail. With the ability of cruising in the teens and sometimes higher, you can avoid coming bad weather where slower boats, like trawlers and sailboats can't.
Re: marinas. Most have showers and many have washers and dryers. However, you will find that your needs while cruising will be greatly simplified. On my long cruise I found that if I could change underwear and socks on a daily basis and shave and get cleaned up, I was okay with wearing a shirt for a second day. Don't forget, there are often laundromats within walking distance of marinas or anchorages and many marinas have courtesy cars for short trips.
Also, you can do laundry aboard in a bucket in small quantities. While in remote locations in the Bahamas I did laundry by putting it in a black garbage bag with water and soap and let it sit in the sun to soak. Remember, you won't be far from civilization on the Loop.
Re:showers. Most cruising boats without an onboard shower carry a Sun Shower, which is a great thing to have aboard and not just for sunny days. Often we have taken warm showers aboard or when camping in the boonies by pouring warm water into the shower.
A friendly and polite comment: your question about marinas and their facilities has me wondering about your boating experience. When you get your boat, plan on spending at least a season or two cruising and getting experience before heading out on a big trip like the Loop. Even with my decades of sailing experience on the Great Lakes and in the Caribbean, I found myself well behind the learning curve a time or two when dealing with heavy tidal current and woke up a few times at a 45 degree list when I anchored and didn't consider the state of the tide. We get very little of that in Ohio.
Good luck and keep asking those questions and don't give up your dream.
Regards,
Nick
"Valkyrie"
Thanks Nick, great info. Well I'm definitely low on experience, but I'm learning and got plenty of time. The Loop will be my early retirement trip, so lots to learn before then. I'm taking my first Power Squadron course in February, they offer several over the year that I intent to take.
But for today, just doing a little daydreaming and reading.
I've used a "Sun Shower" before on cycling trips, do you just lay the bag on the boat roof and shower in the cockpit?
Thanks for the links Jim, more reading for my day off before New Years. I've seen lots of loop guides, but have held back buying any till I get closer to the trip, so they don't get out of date. But maybe they would answer many of my questions.
But for today, just doing a little daydreaming and reading.
I've used a "Sun Shower" before on cycling trips, do you just lay the bag on the boat roof and shower in the cockpit?
Thanks for the links Jim, more reading for my day off before New Years. I've seen lots of loop guides, but have held back buying any till I get closer to the trip, so they don't get out of date. But maybe they would answer many of my questions.
Edward Thieme
New member
Greg,
Go for it!!! I did an abbreviated loop in a C-22 and took 11.5 months. When I came out of the Erie Canal on the Niagara R I had the boat moved to E Brady Penn. head of navigation on the Allegany R. From here it is about 79m to Pittsburg and the Ohio R then 900m to Paduca KY and the Tennessee R. where I crossed my path. I finished the trip going past Nashville on the Clumberland R. I had started on the Missouri R. near St Louis in Oct. was in Fl by Thanksgiving, the Keys by Jan and started up the E coast in March and NYC by June. I discovered Capt. Bob's guides which were very useful on the trip.
I had gone half way up Lk. Champlain intending to go through Canada and checked with Ontario, CAN about porta potties since I heard they are illegal in Ontario and was told they are a no no so backtracked and took the Erie Canal. After the trip I have talked to other people who said don't worry about the porta potty issue, no one checks you.
It was a very enjoyable trip and you are only out in the ocean for the 25 miles from Manasquan (spelling) Inlet, NJ to NYC harbour. Hope this is of some help.
ED on "Rambler"
Go for it!!! I did an abbreviated loop in a C-22 and took 11.5 months. When I came out of the Erie Canal on the Niagara R I had the boat moved to E Brady Penn. head of navigation on the Allegany R. From here it is about 79m to Pittsburg and the Ohio R then 900m to Paduca KY and the Tennessee R. where I crossed my path. I finished the trip going past Nashville on the Clumberland R. I had started on the Missouri R. near St Louis in Oct. was in Fl by Thanksgiving, the Keys by Jan and started up the E coast in March and NYC by June. I discovered Capt. Bob's guides which were very useful on the trip.
I had gone half way up Lk. Champlain intending to go through Canada and checked with Ontario, CAN about porta potties since I heard they are illegal in Ontario and was told they are a no no so backtracked and took the Erie Canal. After the trip I have talked to other people who said don't worry about the porta potty issue, no one checks you.
It was a very enjoyable trip and you are only out in the ocean for the 25 miles from Manasquan (spelling) Inlet, NJ to NYC harbour. Hope this is of some help.
ED on "Rambler"
smittypaddler
New member
Here's a link to the list of charts and books I used on my great loop:
http://my.voyager.net/~smittypaddler/glpubsch/index.htm
http://my.voyager.net/~smittypaddler/glpubsch/index.htm
http://www.geocities.com/bill_fiero/index.htm
Pages and pages of Bill and El's adventures..including the Loop.
Pages and pages of Bill and El's adventures..including the Loop.
smittypaddler
New member
I felt I would be taking a risk without paper charts. What if my laptop crashed? I came home by airline several times during the journey, so I only kept paper charts on board for the next couple thousand miles.
journey on
New member
If you think a C-Dory 22 is small (and I don't,) read the book "On The Water, discovering America in a Rowboat," by Nathaniel Stone.
The gentleman did the Great Loop, via the Mississippi River and up the ICW in a 17' scull. A 22' boat with a motor and cabin should be palatial.
By the way, since we did our part of the Great Loop before there was much in the way of electronic charts, we used Maptech chart books. In a small boat it would reduce the clutter and it was a lot cheaper. Of course, all electronic US charts are now free on the internet (look for NOAA.) One just needs a laptop.
Also for local knowledge the Skipper Bob Great Loop guides were perfect. There is a guide for anchorages, marinas and the Great Loop itself. Unfortunately Skipper Bob died last year, but the guides should still be available. Great local knowledge.
Boris
The gentleman did the Great Loop, via the Mississippi River and up the ICW in a 17' scull. A 22' boat with a motor and cabin should be palatial.
By the way, since we did our part of the Great Loop before there was much in the way of electronic charts, we used Maptech chart books. In a small boat it would reduce the clutter and it was a lot cheaper. Of course, all electronic US charts are now free on the internet (look for NOAA.) One just needs a laptop.
Also for local knowledge the Skipper Bob Great Loop guides were perfect. There is a guide for anchorages, marinas and the Great Loop itself. Unfortunately Skipper Bob died last year, but the guides should still be available. Great local knowledge.
Boris
Bill Uffelman
New member
I recall someone doing a significant portion of the Loop in a Montgomery 17 sailboat. Struck the mast several times and motored with about 5hp kicker as I recall when doing canals. Stories in mags back in the 1970s or so.
Bill Uffelman
Still boatless in Las Vegas NV
Bill Uffelman
Still boatless in Las Vegas NV
Gregw":ns5rsysd said:
There are at least a half-dozen weblogs and sites featuring Great Loop cruises in small boats, ie, under 30 feet LOA. I've started a directory of such sites under the title Cruising in Small Boats on the TomCat 24 weblog I've launched. The list includes well-known sites like Halcyon Days but others just as interesting and useful. Go take a look: http://tomcat-tales.blogspot.com/
--Georgs
smittypaddler
New member
When I started the great loop in 2004, I'd only had Na Waqa on the water twice before; I started in La Crosse on the Mississippi in September, after receiving my new C-Dory from the factory in June. I started with a microwave and a toaster oven, along with the factory-installed Wallas stove/heater. Since then I've added three items that would've made my loop much more comfortable: (1) an air conditioner that slips in and out of the center window at the front of the cabin, and is just small enough to store under the portside rear seat; (2) a Honda E1000 generator, which is just small enough to store aft of the porta potti on the floor of the forecabin; (3) and finally a small electric heater from US West.
Oh my, is it nice now to close the cabin door and turn on the air conditioner when it's in the 90's and 80% humidity outside! And when it's down in the 30's, the electric heater provides just enough heat to be comfortable, without being blasted out of the cabin with the Wallas. I anchor out much more now than I did on my loop, because now I can recharge my house batteries with my own generator.
Oh my, is it nice now to close the cabin door and turn on the air conditioner when it's in the 90's and 80% humidity outside! And when it's down in the 30's, the electric heater provides just enough heat to be comfortable, without being blasted out of the cabin with the Wallas. I anchor out much more now than I did on my loop, because now I can recharge my house batteries with my own generator.
Thanks Smitty, sounds like great advise!
I have seen in the gallery here folks installing the small (RV type) roof top AC units, do you prefer the portable type? The AC runs off the generator not the batteries, correct?
Is the lowest setting on the Wallas too hot for medium cold temps? couldn't you just crack a window at the same time? Seems like an electric heater would eat-up a battery charge?
Back on the charts, It seems to me that if I have a GPS chart plotter with the charts loaded, a backup handheld GPS that plugs into a laptop with Wifi, and of course a compass, I would be set.
Did you use one of those "Sun-Showers" or just use showers at marinas?
I have seen in the gallery here folks installing the small (RV type) roof top AC units, do you prefer the portable type? The AC runs off the generator not the batteries, correct?
Is the lowest setting on the Wallas too hot for medium cold temps? couldn't you just crack a window at the same time? Seems like an electric heater would eat-up a battery charge?
Back on the charts, It seems to me that if I have a GPS chart plotter with the charts loaded, a backup handheld GPS that plugs into a laptop with Wifi, and of course a compass, I would be set.
Did you use one of those "Sun-Showers" or just use showers at marinas?
Thanks for the web-log links Georgs, I'm reading the one with the Motorcat 30 right now. Interesting boat, it has so many creature comforts, yet still has an outside, open-air cockpit. Well no boat is perfect. I'm enjoying his trip to the Bahamas, I hope to include them on my loop.
smittypaddler
New member
Yes, the AC runs off the generator, just barely. I have to choose either the battery charger, or the microwave, or the AC, never more than one, and never the toaster oven, which takes too much juice unless I'm on shore power. The E2000 generator would undoubtedly handle more, but it doesn't fit behind the porta potti, and sticks out into the main cabin when stored, so I chose the E1000. It's also much lighter to lug around, and easier to carry aft outside the cabin to use.
The Wallas, when it works, really pumps out heat! In Carrabelle, Florida, when I was there in late January 2005 it got down into the 20's, and with the Wallas on its lowest setting, I still had to keep the door open. It wasn't very comfortable, with cold drafts from the door alternatiing with hot air from the stove. Later, in Atlantic City in May, a Nor-Easter blew through, with winds up to 40mph, and the temp down in the 40's. That's when the Wallas decided to quit on me, with smoke coming off the circuit board. It was cold and damp and miserable; probably the low point of my trip. Wish I'd had my little electric heater then! No stove at all for the last 1000 miles or so of my trip.
I didn't carry a Sunshower, relying on marinas or a swim. But as I said, I didn't anchor out much, because I didn't have the Honda generator then. I did have a 1000-watt inverter, and two type-27 deep-cycle batteries, in addition to the two starter batteries for my engines. Frankly, it wasn't just the lack of a generator that kept me in marinas most nights. I just felt safer. With a little more experience, now I enjoy anchoring out much more.
Regarding trying it without paper charts, my own preference would be not. I'll probably only do the one great loop in my life, so the extra safety offered with paper charts aboard was worth the cost for me. I was very cautious. I had two laptops on board, one as as a backup, and also a Garmin 2006C color plotter. I was never lost, nor did I ever run aground, and I attribute that to the extra care with charts and piloting. There are some places along the east coast where it's easy to make the wrong turn on the ICW. It looks like you're out in the middle of a big lake, but it's rocky and only a foot deep just a few feet outside the channel markers.
The Wallas, when it works, really pumps out heat! In Carrabelle, Florida, when I was there in late January 2005 it got down into the 20's, and with the Wallas on its lowest setting, I still had to keep the door open. It wasn't very comfortable, with cold drafts from the door alternatiing with hot air from the stove. Later, in Atlantic City in May, a Nor-Easter blew through, with winds up to 40mph, and the temp down in the 40's. That's when the Wallas decided to quit on me, with smoke coming off the circuit board. It was cold and damp and miserable; probably the low point of my trip. Wish I'd had my little electric heater then! No stove at all for the last 1000 miles or so of my trip.
I didn't carry a Sunshower, relying on marinas or a swim. But as I said, I didn't anchor out much, because I didn't have the Honda generator then. I did have a 1000-watt inverter, and two type-27 deep-cycle batteries, in addition to the two starter batteries for my engines. Frankly, it wasn't just the lack of a generator that kept me in marinas most nights. I just felt safer. With a little more experience, now I enjoy anchoring out much more.
Regarding trying it without paper charts, my own preference would be not. I'll probably only do the one great loop in my life, so the extra safety offered with paper charts aboard was worth the cost for me. I was very cautious. I had two laptops on board, one as as a backup, and also a Garmin 2006C color plotter. I was never lost, nor did I ever run aground, and I attribute that to the extra care with charts and piloting. There are some places along the east coast where it's easy to make the wrong turn on the ICW. It looks like you're out in the middle of a big lake, but it's rocky and only a foot deep just a few feet outside the channel markers.
[quote
Wallas decided to quit on me, with smoke coming off the circuit board. It was cold and damp and miserable; probably the low point of my trip. Wish I'd had my little electric heater then! No stove at all for the last 1000 miles or so of my trip.
I.[/quote]
Reading your post. It sounds like your batteries were to low to start your Wallas. We learned that the hard way. We thought the wiring was burning up because of the smoke. But it is just heated up diesel oil that didn.t light that was smoking. You probably figure that all out, but I thought I would mention it.
Captd
Wallas decided to quit on me, with smoke coming off the circuit board. It was cold and damp and miserable; probably the low point of my trip. Wish I'd had my little electric heater then! No stove at all for the last 1000 miles or so of my trip.
I.[/quote]
Reading your post. It sounds like your batteries were to low to start your Wallas. We learned that the hard way. We thought the wiring was burning up because of the smoke. But it is just heated up diesel oil that didn.t light that was smoking. You probably figure that all out, but I thought I would mention it.
Captd