gpsmap 741xs by garmin

If anyone wants something tested or checked out on the 741 just let me know. I can run it in the boatshed and post pics. We do not have the sidescan box with our unit. I am not that interested in more sonar capability yet. We only fish occasionally and mostly bottom fish. We are happy enough with traditional sonar and "downview".

Greg
 
And, to toss yet another log on the fire...check out the Simrad NSS evo2 units. Still taking a close look at all options, but I'm pretty certain that's what I'll be installing over the winter.

I hate the iPad direction most MFD's are going these days. Touch screens are wonderful for some things, but absolutely dreadful for others. Simrad has hit the ball outta the park in this respect, IMO - the combination of their rotary knob and buttons, combined with touchscreen gives you the best of both worlds. Pick whichever one you want for virtually any function.

Ergonomics of the knob/buttons are excellent as well, assuming you are right-handed. Rest your right hand on the upper right corner of the display, and you can reach every needed manual control without moving your hand. They are intelligently placed, and you'll quickly be using them without looking at their labels to see what they do.

So yeah...I take exception to the common claim of "Garmin has the best interface" observation. I spent quite a bit of time with both at West Marine recently, and Garmin was a distant second for me. That being said, of the MFD's that are designed to be controlled primarily by touchscreen - I did like Garmin's implementation of this inferior interface choice the best... :mrgreen:
 
Touchscreen thoughts:

The touchscreen on the 741 is worlds ahead of even the 740 so they are changing quickly and experience with an older one is not really relevant.

If you are not "used to" the action of a touchscreen from perhaps using a tablet or smartphone regularly and happily, then a touchscreen will likely be less satisfying for you than buttons. I used to be part of that group.

If you will use the screen in the open air, where rain/water/wet hands will be part of the scenario, then touchscreens can be annoying as they still get a bit confused with water on the screen. Older screens were terrible but they are improving fast.

If you are using a boat in rough conditions or running your boat fast in rougher water and need to interact with the screen while bouncing all around, a touch screen will also not work as well for you in general. Although they are simplifying the interfaces to the point that most touchable items on screen are getting larger and larger so this is also improving as the interface designs evolve.

A touch screen can be made much more waterproof than the average keypad due to the membrane behind the keys. That is the weakness of keys over the long term. Debris or salt settles in the creases in that membrane and rub through over time to create a little rubber water pump usually pumping the way you don't want it to.
This could be a factor for someone but see by above point for the conflicted nature of this fact.

The key to successful touchscreens is the interface design. If you put a fancy screen over a clunky older workflow with undersized items, it is very hard to love it. Too many companies mixed the two worlds badly in the beginning but the gems are starting to come out now.

We use ours in a comfy dry cabin and rough conditions are generally avoided for wife comfort so it works perfect in our Dory.

One word that puts the Garmin at the top of the heap for us Guidance

We can plot a long route in seconds and see how far away those gas docks are and make decisions on the route with no guessing or waypoint/route maneuvering. Its what most of us do in the car but only Garmin does it somewhat intelligently on the water.

From Garmin:

Guide To is only available when using a BlueChart g2 Vision card in a compatible chartplotter or sounder. The Guide To option will provide a turn by turn navigation line to the destination avoiding land and other obstacles. This navigation line will be based on the BlueChart g2 mapping data and three user defined settings on the chartplotter. The three settings are Safe Depth, Safe Height, and Shoreline Distance. The chartplotter will look at all of this information and provide a navigation line avoiding any area that cannot be navigated to the destination.

Greg
 
Good points, Greg - and while they may be improving, you listed several issues that aptly illustrate why I can't stand a touchscreen only interface. The one that I can't ever see being resolved - the "bouncy" issue. When different touches/taps/gestures are required for different functions, these inputs will always be more difficult when things are not completely stationary.

Another touchscreen issue - clarity. Yes, screens have improved drastically in this regard, both in durability as well as the ability to display images when the underlying surface is not 100% clean. However, there's still quite a difference between a clean and not-so-clean screen...and with touchscreen only, they'll dirty up significantly faster.

Lastly, RE automatic routing - that's evidently not a technical hurdle, as Simrad offers it as well. Unfortunately, not in North America - yet. The leading theory/rumor being, that it's a recipe for lawsuits...but if so, that's obviously something Garmin has addressed to their attorneys' satisfaction. Simrad has automatic routing available for both Navionics and C-Map in other countries...which also illustrates another reason I'm looking at Simrad. I could be mistaken, but to my knowledge - nobody else offers your choice of cartography from both vendors in the same unit.
 
I can envision the touch screen Rough Water screen cover. A plastic grid you stick your finger through to keep your finger from moving around too much :) An old ice cube tray grid could be the prototype.

Having choices is great and that is why I don't like my work Iphone. But good data is all you need and I have always put Garmin in the good category for datasets. None is perfect, all has defects in design and maintenance not to mention the canyon between user expectations and data realities. I design spatial data sets for transportation and other infrastructure at work and it is hard to do everything for everyone. GIS data development staff time is our current limiting factor.

Back on topic, the 741 vision charts have something called fisheye view that is really not as gimmicky as some of the others. It shows a 3d chart modeled underwater view from below your transducer location and even shows sonar hits/fish in the view if you activate sonar logging.

I use it for anchoring near underwater slopes (we had it on the 25 as well) more than anything else. It also helped Cindie more quickly understand how the transducer works.

http://garmin.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451bb ... 2e9e2e970c

http://www.garminmarine.com.au/assets/l ... en-too.jpg
 
Greg and Bill, thanks for your comments. As I said earlier, I desire to stay with Garmin as I don't want to give up Garmin software & charts that I already have. At this point I am now leaning heavily towards the Garmin GPSMAP 840xs. A little larger screen, not that much more in cost, and not so big as to take over the helm. Still more questions about downvu and sidevu. The downvu looks like a really nice view of what's beneath the boat, if I am understanding the pictures well. I believe this also gives me depth readings. Not sure what sidevu would give me. From what I am beginning to understand, I don't need that GVC10 unit for downvu. I can just use the transducer that they include with the main unit, when a transducer is included. Also regarding the radar. What is the difference between the 18XHD and the 18HD? I would like something that will do just as well as my old RayMarine Pathfinder 72+ B&W unit. IOW, something that paints land, other boats, and some weather. Colby
 
We do not have the black box and just use the optional downview transducer to enjoy that feature with the 741. To add the sideview option, it looks like you have to get the GCV10 box plus have a capable transducer. I am not sure if a downview transducer comes packaged with the 840 units as an option. Ours were separate and we use the All-in-one HD-ID and DownVü Transducer (8-pin)

This page makes the levels of sonar a bit clearer:

http://sites.garmin.com/clearvu-scanning/

We have used both the HD and xHD RADAR and the XHD provides a variety of colors to show strength of returns with more distinction and offers a faster refresh/rotate rate as well. We like it and feel like its worth it if buying new and buying a MFD that supports the xHD. If you just want basic RADAR and want to save some bucks, the regular HD works well also and took us through some foggy conditions on Aurelia with confidence or at least less apprehension.

Greg
 
Thanks for that link. Think I can get by with out the sidevu. But the downvu does look like a very nice feature. Back to the HD and XHD 18 Garmin Radar domes, guess I need to see some demo's of both of them to decide. I'm guessing that even the HD would be an improvement over my old Ray Marine B&W unit. But even it could pick out flocks of birds at 1/4 mile! :-)
 
Aurelia":je1b72sm said:
We have used both the HD and xHD RADAR and the XHD provides a variety of colors to show strength of returns with more distinction and offers a faster refresh/rotate rate as well.
Click to expand...

It sounds as though this might be a little bit like the difference between Raymarine's "regular" and "HD" radar. An experienced friend first said (a few months ago) that he would go with the regular vs. the extra for the HD. But then when I talked to him last week, he said that after having used the HD a few times, he would now recommend the HD if someone doesn't mind spending a bit extra (in Raymarine it is around $500 more than the regular). I always pay attention when someone in the know recommends X but then after more experience with the unit(s) in question changes their recommendation to Y. He cited the same reason you gave above, in that the returns are more detailed in their color coding, and as a result it's easier/quicker to get a quick visual feel for what you are looking at. Colby, I know you are talking about Garmin not Raymarine, but I just mentioned it because of the "extra colors" it sounds like they both have in their "better" versions.
 
Thanks Sunbeam. FWIW, I learned how to use radar while in the USCG. I think I'm pretty good using it, at least in aircraft. :-) I actually thought the B&W worked pretty well, if one wasn't afraid to tweak it. My time in the airlines was primarily with newer color radar. I can't say it was really any better, just more colorful! :-) So, in my case, I don't necessarily want to spend more money just to get more colors. As long as the radar it self still paints all the same objects, I can get by cheaper without needing more color differentiation. Colby
 
Sounds like you have a lot of radar experience.

I've always had just the old black screen with green blobs, and I always found it to be perfectly fine -- but then I was mostly offshore, so I knew that each "green cigar" was a ship or boat, and I only had to keep track of X number of them at once, plus maybe one bit of shoreline, etc. I am thinking that being inshore/in harbors, where there is a lot more to see, and it's visually busier, I might like the fancy colors (?)
 
All depends what you get use to. In the USCG, we actually used radar quite some years back to do self-contained approaches into some isolated stations. And to locate boats when we were doing patrols. I continued to use radar with the airlines not only to navigate thru weather, but also to back up approaches into mountainous terrain. (Although they told us not to use radar for ground mapping.... hey, anything that is an aid to keep from hitting anything hard, I'm using!) With good contrast and tweaked up, those green blobs can tell you alot! :-) Anyway, back on topic :-) I just want to be able to paint land, small boats and buoys and nasty weather. If the HD can do that just as well as the XHD, but without all the extra colors, I'm ok with that! :-) Colby
 
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