fuel water separators

I am not jumping in to argue, but the practice for inboard boats, is considerably different than what is used on outboard powered boats. Roger and my Tom Cat were not ABYC (NMEA) certified--C Dory obtained certification status some time last year. It would be interesting to see how the current boats are rigged.

SO if our boats are not to ABYC/NMEA standards, should not C Dory offer a general recall, and bring the boats to standards?

Incidently the regulations for pleasure vessels are at the boat builder's handbook by USCG:
http://uscgboating.org/safety/boatbuild ... /PART1.pdf

Complete reference is Code of Fed Regs 33 sect 183...

ABYC basically goes back to fire safety standards, and Underwriter's Laboratories fire resistance. By these standards, the plastic is not acceptable.

My Tom Cat is 255 has approved hose from the fuel filter to the bulb and from the bulb (which is inside of the cockpit cabinet--and is probably not "fire proof") to the outboard. In the CD 25 many of the boats have plastic fuel tanks--and at least one has leaked--as did at least one of the Tom Cat 24's. The Fuel tank and cockpit are isolated from the cabin (at least in the bilge). None of the outboard boats are requried to have blowers. The chance of spark in the cockpit is probably minimal--but still possiable. I blieve that the electric pump in Roger's boat is not factory installed. The only electric mechinery down in the hulls of my Tom Cat are the bilge pumps.

One other feature of the plastic bottoms of the Racor separators, is that the easily hand opened drain has a hose barb and the fuel/water can be easily drained into a container. If you have a metal container, you cannot see the fuel/water interface, and removing a plug, you have to let all of the fuel drain into a larger container--if you can get it in place. In the Tom Cat, there is no splash well (as is true of many boats)--and the fuel water separator would go on the outside of the transom--a major problem of a different nature, including rust and corrosion of the filter and filter holder. Not necessarilly arguing that the plastic is better or safer, but making some points for them. I like these clear bowls, and am not fully convinced that this is "illegal". I am not going to change the plastic bowl Racors on the Tom Cat and CD 25. From the Racor literature, the metal bowl is designated for inboard and inboard/outboard engines--the see thru plastic bowl is designated for outboards--with no caviat about being in the splash well, or inside of the cockpit. I fully understand the implications of the plastic bowls.
 
Dan,

And pass the beer, please. :beer

These regs are hard to access, it turns out. From what I looked at today on the web, the USCG is incorporating some ABYC recommendations as rules by USCG directive.

There are diferences in outboard powered boats. A TC255 or CD 25 has a bilge where gas can hide, and they have metal tanks. IMHO those metal tanks should be hooked up per inboard gas recomendations. Use A1 hose, double clamps, etc.
(Yeh, I know, there were some plastic tanks in earlier CD25's.)

A CD22 has no bilge, plastic tanks and IMHO should be hooked up with A1 hose. A CD22 has less chance of getting gas in a hidden place, but the hose is not going to save many beers worth of money, and will last 10-15 years if kept out of the sun.

The A1 hose is not specified to resist exhaust manifolds (which are water cooled), or engine heat, but to resist fire. Correctly run hoses do not get near manifolds or engines on inboard boats.

Same with filters, you can put your filter anwhere you choose, but I would not use a plastic bowl, with drain, inside my boat. Especially near electrical wiring. Evinrude and Mercury never sold those Racor type plastic bowl filters with their name on them. They sold a spin on gas filter, all metal, like an oil filter.

Perhaps my experience working in a commercial boat shop has clouded my vision, but I have seen many really dumb things on boats that were done by well meaning folks. We tried to do it right, and follow the accepted safe practices. We must have been sucessiful, as we were never sued for any gas or electrical fires. In fact, knockwood, we were never sued.

If you do it your own way and there is an accident, fire or explosion, the authorities may be looking at your boat and how it was rigged.

If anyone goes with dumb(no, not you Dan), please don't whine about the outcome.

Thanks for the beer!! :beer

Larry H

PS: I know in Alaska there are many more and worse hazards to life and limb than there are 'outside'. Going out 90+ miles in the PWS is not like going to the San Juans! LOL Alaskans have a different attitude to such hazards. :thup :thup

ON EDIT: THE USCG DOES NOT REGULATE OUTBOARD BOAT FUEL SYSTEMS, ONLY INBOARD FUEL SYSTEMS. I STILL RECOMMEND FOLLOWING THE INBOARD REGS FOR SAFETY.
 
Larry H":gptqwhkc said:
I know in Alaska there are many more and worse hazards to life and limb
Click to expand...

Like what? A Polar Bear jumping into your 22' C-Dory and begging for a ride to the Antarctic? :roll:
 
Brats,

OK, OK, after an afternoon and evening of research I have concluded that the USCG does not in fact regulate fuel systems on outboard powered boats. :embarrased

The CG rules only apply to inboard powered boats.

I do not know at this point if ABYC or NMMA has rules or certifications that manufacturers need to comply with to claim that their boats are certified to ABYC or NMMA standards.

The builders manual in the link Bob posted was from 1977 but I have found a USCG site here
http://www.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/cfrassemble.cgi?title=200433 that is up to date as of 2004.

This does not change the fact, as far as I can determine, that the USCG does NOT regulate outboard powered boat fuel systems.

So should everone do whatever they want with their fuel systems? Apparently its ok with the CG. Does that make it safe?

Here is an area where the government has not seen it fit to tell us what to do. So we all have the freedom to make our own choices. It might be one of the few area of life left unregulated!

I prefer to do what is required by inboard boats as that is a safe system. The use of A1 hose until the fuel line is outside the hull is the safest way to proceed.

If I was still running a boat shop I would use the inboard requirements as a guide to installing a safe system for my customers. I would like my customers to still greet me through the front door as friends and not by serving me with legal papers. Just stating that there were no CG regs is not a complete defence in court.

I think that if a boat has a bilge, all reasonable means should be taken to keep gas or gas vapors out of that bilge. The inboard system is designed for that purpose.

Sorry if I misled anyone into complying with the inboard fuel system requirements for their outboard boat.

Dan, I guess the next beers are on me!! :beer :beer The red face sure is on me.

Larry H
 
Brats,

Stay tuned!!

I have located some ABYC information which DOES apply to outboard fuel systems and will be posting more soon.

Larry H
 
Brats,

The ABYC (American Boat and Yacht council, Inc.)is an organization that writes standards for boats and yachts. The NMMA uses these standards to certify boat builders, surveyors, repair facilitys and others involved in the recreational marine field.

C-Dory is a member of NMMA. To see if your boat was built to the ABYC standards, check your capacity plate. If it was, the NMMA logo will be on the plate.

The ABYC standards for the most part do not have the force of law. However, the USCG has incorporated some ABYC standards into their regs. The outboard fuel standards have NOT been incorporated into the CG regs.

ABYC standards are becoming 'de facto' regulations because the boating industry is adopting them. Marine surveyors and insurance companies use them as guidelines.
Marine repair and service shops use them as 'best practices'.

ABYC standard H-24 is the standard that applies to boat fuel systems. Here is a copy of the introduction to that section:

"H-24
GASOLINE FUEL SYSTEMS

Based on ABYC's assessment of the state of existing technology and the problems associated with achieving the requirements of this standard, ABYC recommends compliance with this standard by August 1, 1990.

H-24.1.

PURPOSE

These recommended practices and engineering standards establish requirements for the design, choice of materials for, construction, and installation of permanently installed gasoline fuel systems.

H-24.2.

SCOPE

These recommended practices and engineering standards apply to all parts of permanently installed gasoline fuel systems from the fuel fill opening to the point of connection with the propulsion engine and/or any auxiliary equipment contained on INBOARD AND OUTBOARD POWERED BOATS. " (CAPS ADDED)



This standard goes on for many pages and I cannot duplicate it all here. Basically, it follows the USCG regs for INBOARD fuel systems.

In future posts I will copy and paste parts of H-24 that are of interest. My copy of ABYC is dated 1989, so I do not have current info, however, the CG builders manual linked by Bob is from 1977 so this H-24 standard is somewhat newer..

If anyone has info that supersedes this, please post. Anyone can Google search on ABYC or NMMA for more info. The ABYC standards are published and must be purchased, they are not available online for free.

Larry H
 
Well, after spending an hour sweating and cursing, I could not remove the filter from the filter base. What is the deal with these things? They must be assembled in zoos by angry gorillas.
I have tried the regular oil filter remove, but all that is doing is denting the filter. Any other ideas besides a saw?

Jim
 
Jim,
I remove mine with a rubber strap wrench. Helps to place the strap up next to the filter base. I hate to mention the obvious but if you are looking at the filter from the top you may turn it the wrong direction? (not that I have ever done that)
 
How do these filters work? Mine has no glass bowl so I just change it every 6 months and pour what's in there into my little lawnmower gas tank and burn it up, then take the core to the hasmat place with oil that's been changed. When you look at one of the filters it doesn't look as if there's any magic to them. I just assume the water, if any, settles to the bottom? Is this correct?

Since you can pour the contents straight out is there any reusability to these?

Should I be doing something different?

chris
 
cemiii":1w3rigo4 said:
How do these filters work? Mine has no glass bowl so I just change it every 6 months and pour what's in there into my little lawnmower gas tank and burn it up, then take the core to the hasmat place with oil that's been changed. When you look at one of the filters it doesn't look as if there's any magic to them. I just assume the water, if any, settles to the bottom? Is this correct?

Since you can pour the contents straight out is there any reusability to these?

Should I be doing something different?

chris
Click to expand...

Chris-

As far as I know, there just particulate filters with small micron sized heavy filter paper folded into a metal or metal/plastic body.

The micron sizes are 30, 10, and 2, with the 30 being used for gross particles, 10 for average gas engine use, and 2 for very demanding applications.

The filter paper traps the particles, and the water droplets are also stopped and fall to the bottom of the canister.

Outboard engines usually use a canister with a plastic lower body that can be drained through a valve at the bottom, and the plastic bowl can be re-used on another new metal canister with a new filter inside.

For more dangerous applications, where a breaking plastic bowl would pose a very serious fire hazard, such as in an inboard engine application down in the bilge, plastic bowl filters are not used. The unfortunate part about the all metal canister is that you can't see how much water is accumulating inside the can.

I know that some folks remove the metal can, dump out the water and re-use it, but this is not recommended procedure.

It's probably a good idea to change the typical 10 micron filter on an outboard application with every 100-hour service in normal usage.

I like the plastic bowl because it instills confidence if the gas appears clear and there's no water or sediment in the bowl.

Don't forget there's also a smaller in-line filter under the engine cowl that also needs to be periodically checked and changed, probably at about the same interval.

Hope this helps!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
I believe the Racor/ CG logic is that the danger to the plastic bowls is a little bit mechanical (risk of breakage), but mostly thermal (melting due to high engine compartment temperature or engine fire). I haven't tried to melt one of them-- I think they are polycarbonate (ie. don't drink from them :-D ) That's why Racor offers heat shields for the plastic bowls.

On an outboard installation, all the hot engine parts are enclosed away from the filter under the cowling. That doesn't explain the little plastic filters that you sometimes find under the cowling. Maybe their volume is small enough to pass muster.

Pure speculation, mind you...

I personally like to be able to check the condition of incoming fuel for debris and water and be able to drain a little to get rid of gunk (I've never actually had to do it).
 
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