? for IT folks

B~C

New member
I ordered a new school laptop and the putz in charge of computing services firmly believes that the whole school system will come crashing down if anybody is allowed to install any type of software. My gut tells me that this clown is just trying to protect his job by requiring computing services to install all software. I'm inclined to think no harm would come from faculty installing programs from reputable sources.
I don't know squat about networks, bits, bytes and servers and am looking for a little input from the pros
thanks.
 
The first issue, more than likely, is one of licensing - preventing pirated software from being installed on school / company / government computers. This is a part of your IT guy's job description almost certainly. The other issue is support - his job will be immensely harder trying to figure out why your computer isn't working if you are permitted to install programs, change configurations, etc. I hate administered computers, believe me, but I understand the need for them in a corporate / institutional environment...


B~C":2drcwh4f said:
I ordered a new school laptop and the putz in charge of computing services firmly believes that the whole school system will come crashing down if anybody is allowed to install any type of software. My gut tells me that this clown is just trying to protect his job by requiring computing services to install all software. I'm inclined to think no harm would come from faculty installing programs from reputable sources.
I don't know squat about networks, bits, bytes and servers and am looking for a little input from the pros
thanks.
 
Ken-
It's the same at work for me. Pat is right about the licensing issues.
Be a good boy ( I know how hard this is) and play by the rules or they may take your new toy away from you.
Teachers are the worst at downloading some "special" program and screwing up the network........don't be one of them.
 
thanks for your thoughts. I can understand the arguments but damn, are we not to use the copy machines because we may violate a copyright laws?

Oh, I'm on a committee that is trying to craft a strategic plan for computing services...are there any organizations that contract that work out? pros? cons?

thanks again
 
No
Absolutely not!! Just makes my job harder. I use roaming profiles and domain user permissions. No software other then what I approve is installed. Doing this makes my network work. I have 150 users and there almost all idiots and been doing it almost 12 years with 99% uptime.
JoeC
 
joeC":1or8d91z said:
No
Absolutely not!! Just makes my job harder. I use roaming profiles and domain user permissions. No software other then what I approve is installed. Doing this makes my network work. I have 150 users and there almost all idiots and been doing it almost 12 years with 99% uptime.
JoeC

I agree with Joe on this one BUT it's critically important that IT departments balance making their job easier with the overall goal of making EVERYONE's job easier. Some IT guys are so focussed on managing the network and systems to optimize their own efficiency that the lose sight of how some of their policies make life inefficient for the end users. Balance in all things. Since I hire and fire my own IT department, I have security and systems management in good balance with usabilty.

That said, we don't allow end users to install software of their own choice on the systems. Lots of freeware/shareware from apparently "reputable sources" screws other things up or carries adware or viruses. Many of the things end users wish to install have little value to the business.

P.S - It's often IT guys who think that almost everyone is an idiot that sometimes struggle with keeping security and usability in balance. It's IT guys who say out loud that almost everyone is an idiot that give IT guys a bad name.
 
well put Roger.
Again, I can see the need for the policy, but my hopes where that with this being a laptop and about the only networking it would see would be with Cat, Cummins and Detriot engines, I would rather not have to wait a week for them to come over and screw every thing up like they usually do....but...laptop, smacktop it sounds like that's just the way things are.
 
This will be a first fo me, but I have to agree with Roger.

I manage our IT department with 26 locations in Washington and Oregon with anywhere from one to four servers per location. I do very little of the actual work but oversee it and hire and fire the IT personal. My experience is too many IT people want total control over the systems. When they are hired, I tell them their job is not to make it hard for the user to do his/her job, but to make it easier. If he is not willing or unable to work towards that goal, he should find another job. Sometimes some employees have to have the ability to install a program without the approval of the IT department.

I have not had one of our systems become infected, hijacked or comprised. A few individual workstations had several years ago but never spread beyond the workstation, when we first set up the systems.

We have a training program for new employees and it has helped a lot and we are not afraid to let people go if they do not adhere to the policy on the use of their computer.

________
Dave dlt.gif
 
Part of the problem is that when users are allowed to install whatever
they want:

1) They install services and then don't keep up to date with vulnerabilities.
For instance, everyone on campus that installed various Microsoft
SQL servers and didn't patch got nailed a while ago. Similarly those
that installed Black Ice firewall. And the list goes on.

2) Users will install zany things from any old source. They forget that
just because they get an instant message from a "friend" that
their friend's computer is hacked and the "pictures" being offered
are really a backdoor program.

That being said: we let users install what they want. If we detect
traffic that appears to be hacked computer traffic, we disconnect
them from the network. If their computer has PNPI on it: then they
have big problems. Basically, it is our job to manage the network, and
we have the tools to make sure that systems don't cause problems
on the network.

If it was my job to manage the desktops and make sure
they worked, I would not allow users to install programs on them.
You can't expect IT to make sure your computer works while you do
whatever you want to on it. But, if it is your job to manage the
computer, then....

Mike

Mike
 
I have to be careful with this thread...as my true colors will tend to show. I'm one of those evil computer nerds, who tends to dislike dealing with customers. I'm not quite a BOFH , but I must admit to sharing many of the traits exhibited by this fictional character. For those of you who have not had the pleasure, the BOFH stories are a MUST read.

Many who have followed up in this thread, are in the industry and have made good points. I'm in a somewhat unique position...Dana and I are both IT professionals, working at the same employer, in the same department. We support approximately 2,000 users, and the IT infrastructure they rely on. However, our perspectives are very different, which benefits both of us - given the amount of shop talk in our household, we have first-hand insights into two very different areas of IT support.

Dana is an IT Manager - she manages the Help Desk. She oversees the "first line" support; these folks, have the jobs from hell, IMO. They take the grief from the B~C's of the world, and have the least amount of influence when it comes to making decisions that affect their clients. In short - Dana's section is very customer service oriented, and must put on a happy face and attitude even when the users are screaming.

Me - let's just say, I'm not IT management material, nor could I ever work on a Help Desk. I like the tech, enjoy working with those who understand it, but have little patience for dealing with customers on a routine basis.

And here is my first disagreement with a few of the posts above. There absolutely is a place in IT, for technicians who don't live and breath customer service. I've met very few advanced level technicians, who would make good Help Desk employees - they are too easily frustrated by seemingly mundane issues. Many people who are drawn to these machines are problem solvers; they live for the challenge of the puzzle, are incredibly creative, and when given enough free reign are worth their weight in gold. Good IT managers understand these unique personalities, and can guide them in ways that benefit the organization. Senior level techs do NOT need to have excellent customer service skills; while it's certainly a benefit if they are not completely lacking in social graces, that's not the primary criteria by which they are valued. They need to work well in teams of like-minded individuals, and must be able to communicate effectively with IT managers who set policy. Once given direction, they need to implement policies in the best technical method possible.

So...what do I see as the answer to B~C's problem? It's a very, very common issue, that is easily solved with good management, the right tools, and talented techs. Unfortunately, this is a rare combination at most employers.

You can't give users full access on their PC's. Much as they want to bitch and whine about how their work is being impeded, the risk to the organization is far greater in doing so, than any benefit they'll receive in productivity. The virus, licensing and support issues have already been raised. With the limited IT budgets most organizations have, none of these issues can be addressed if you don't lock your users down.

Now...here's the tough part. Many organizations stop after the previous paragraph, and simply tell their employees "tough luck." This invariably leads to the B~C's of the world groaning about their IT department, and rightfully so. IT must give users the tools they need to do their jobs.

Notice, I didn't say, the tools they ASK for. I'm speaking in generalizations here, but the average corporate computer user rarely sees beyond their own needs; they don't fully comprehend the impact their work has on the entire enterprise, and they rarely know every aspect of an organization's existing IT structure. This is where good management, and good techs come to the rescue, and it's no different than any other profession. You don't tell a plumber how to fix a leak - you just want it fixed.

If B~C approached us about an application he wanted installed, our initial questions would have nothing to do with the software. We would inquire as to what problem he was trying to solve, and how the existing tools he had available to him were failing.

Depending on his answers, any of a number of things might happen - but unless he was simply trying to download his porn more efficiently, he likely wouldn't be told, "Sorry, that's how it is." :lol:

If software had been approved for use elsewhere in the organization that substantially met his needs, that's what he would receive. If nothing existed and his need was legitimate, IT staff would analyze solutions (including his suggested software), taking into account the impact and/or usage it could have elsewhere in the organization. And regardless of what solution he was provided, it would be packaged, managed, and distributed from a centralized location, to his locked down PC.

After which, he would write an email to the IT manager, thanking them for the quick and professional support he received.

B~C...thanks for being my whippin' boy in this little scenario. :mrgreen:
 
good advice and thanks for explaining the value of IT staff and their role in business. IHMO IT services are under appreciated and quickly blamed for users' errors but often written IT policies fail to explain in detail why it is necessary.
 
That's the trouble with you smart guys, you have to analyze every simple little thing until it actually does become a problem. B~C told you what he wanted way back in the thread.

B~C":17fumk5t said:
Again, I can see the need for the policy, but my hopes where that with this being a laptop and about the only networking it would see would be with Cat, Cummins and Detriot engines...

He teaches that stuff, you see, (he obviously does not teach spelling) and industrial manufacturers provide lots of valuable tools to make the understanding of their products easier. And this being the 21st century, they put them on little plastic discs that include installation programs and slick little applications specific to the product.

If you guys really want to help your own industry, come up with a way to prevent whatever mistakes the idiot B~C might make from screwing up the other guy's stuff. Or call the IT nerds at Georgia Pacific - they already figured it out. They even let me run the stupid computers.
 
It's just a case of dyslexic type Mike :)

The key is fast professional service...aint got that there, and from what I see on the TV, there are a lot of places that don't have it and that's why the Geek Squad business is booming.

it's all about the viruses, can't be spreading no virus...but..
I read on the internet that viruses are just a hoax perpetrated by the religious right, evil IT empire to keep the workin man from downloading vast quantities of porn......and don't try to tell me otherwise cuz it must be true if it's on the net :)
 
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