Foam in V-Berth or not?

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browntdb

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Question for 2000 model CD 22 Cruiser owners. My 2000 Cruiser has no plugs that I can see in the V-Birth area. Rapping on the fiberglass makes a hollow sound.

Is there foam in your boat? If not and my CD is the same, any reason not to use that space by installing a couple hatches?

Terry
 
Hi Terry,

It just so happens there is another thread on the topic now (title is something like "Water leak forces winter projects." One of the projects the thread starter has just completed is removing the foam and making lockers. Maybe you've already read it (and it's not 2000-specific), but as it turns out, the thread originator (who has something like a 1992) did not have any plugs in the V-berth, and it sounded "hollow," and yet had foam. My boat, likewise, doesn't have plugs in the V-berth (2002), but I know I have at least some foam because when I took off the ~6" hatch on the sole under the porta-potti, that area was crammed with expanded-in-place foam. Based on that thread, I'm assuming I'm going to find foam under the main berth flat also. I have read at least one account of someone with an "older" 22 (maybe early 2000's?) who opened up the area to find no foam (I wish!)

The new 22's from what I can tell (since around at least 2009) don't have foam there, but instead have three hatches that lead to lockers under the berth flat. One 2009 I saw had "factory" mini bulkheads dividing the side compartments from the forward one.

Seems like removing the foam is a real pain, but it's on my list anyway because I'd rather have accessible lockers there. Sorry this is not 2000-specific, but maybe it's useful to some extent anyway.

Sunbeam
 
My 2000 model was completely full of foam. Removed it all and installed three hatches. More storage as well as being better able to balance the boat fore and aft.

If one wanted to avoid the hatch cost I would think 1/4 ply would be strong enough to cover the holes in most situations. It would be even less intrusive under the cushion than most manufactured hatches. They remain hidden under the cushion and might be easier to access than a locking (usually two locks) and hinging hatch. Put a few small tabs on the bottom side to keep covers centered in the hole. Cut a small hole to grab with a finger and lift/slide out. Paint them white. With the cushion on top they should stay put. I guess I am just not real satisfied with pulling up the mattress corner, then unlocking two locks and hinging the door open and reach in to retrieve item, close lock x 2 and mattress back down. Now that I have done the drill I would have made up ply covers. I guess the locking hatches might increase some flotation, but I would rather have thin, slide off covers.
 
I pulled four of the six small black plugs in the v-berth Porta Potty storage area on our 2005 22' Cruiser and it it full to the brim with foam.
The good news; It's dry and it's full.
The bad news; It's full.
The foam sure looks like it would absorb water leaving me to wonder how long it would work as flotation. Hopefully long enough should the boat be rolled, pooped or holed. (I think there is a limerick in there somewhere...)
 
Our 07 22 is chuck full of foam and has the itty bitty plugs. Well, I guess I can't say the v-berth is full of foam as the plug hole may just be the top of a little foam mountain. In any case, I'm strongly leaning to cleaning that space out. Because I have twin engines, the rear end is a tad heavy, specially with two people on the aft deck watching the scenery go by. It would be nice to add some weight up there in the form of infrequently used stuff that takes up frequently used stuff space.
 
UncleRichie":2nyq3y52 said:
My C-Dory is a 2000 and has no foam there ,think they went to foam after 2000 or maby late 2000 as mine was one of the first ones.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, the originator of the "water leak forces winter work" thread has a 1993 and just cut hatches in the v-berth and his was full of foam. Almost seems as though they meant to put foam in them all but just forgot some (wish mine were one of those!).

Sunbeam
 
My 2002 22 has a little deck plate on the floor where the potty sits. It had the hard foam injected there. The foam was only along the keel under the floor area. Forward under the berth there were free "floating" blocks of white styrofoam bead board, a material I despised during my home building career. It was very easy to remove and the storage now is great.
 
Hi Harry & Susan,

You raise a good question about storing less used heavy items up front to keep the bow down. I had the same thought awhile back. I have always thought put weight up front, but I threw the question out to the group, and the replies came back 50/50. So I'm none the wiser. :|

Martin.
 
bcassal":6y8up9zu said:
My 2002 22 has a little deck plate on the floor where the potty sits. It had the hard foam injected there. The foam was only along the keel under the floor area. Forward under the berth there were free "floating" blocks of white styrofoam bead board, a material I despised during my home building career. It was very easy to remove and the storage now is great.
Click to expand...

Ooh, this gives me hope! I have a 2002 also, and so far all I've done is remove that little deck plate from under the porta potti. That was interesting, as I tried to just unscrew it... nope. Then I got a block of wood, put that in the indentation, and coaxed it with a hammer. Nope. So finally I just removed all the screws and took the whole thing out - rim and lid. Hello foam! The foam there was completely "molded" to the shape of the hatch, and had completely coated and dried on the underside of the hatch lid and o-ring, which is why it would not unscrew. But where they put it in is a mystery, as I don't have any of the plugs on the berth flat. Was yours like this too? I'm starting to wonder if they squirted some expanding foam into that small round hatch, then "quick!" screwed it in place before it expanded (?).

Guess I won't really know until I cut out the V-berth tops - and I'm too thick into some other projects right now to start a new one. I'll be quite happy if mine ends up being done the way yours are. Removing a few blocks of styrofoam (which I agree, I normally loathe, but suddenly they sound so welcome) sounds a LOT more fun than carving out that super-adhered spray foam.

Sunbeam
 
I think they injected the foam at that deck plate and like you said: quick put the lid back. It would expand and adhere to it. I was able to unscrew it but it didn't want to go. As my father used to say, "never use force, just get a bigger hammer". I think they injected it to support the floor so it would fleel more solid went you stood on it. A decent idea, really.

Carpy
 
bcassal":8evzjmlc said:
I think they injected the foam at that deck plate and like you said: quick put the lid back. It would expand and adhere to it.
Click to expand...

Well I'm going to be a happy camper if that's the case, and I don't have to do a bunch of laborious scraping under the main v-berth flat. Gee, I almost want to run out a drill a hole now just to see! :D

bcassal":8evzjmlc said:
I think they injected it to support the floor so it would fleel more solid went you stood on it. A decent idea, really.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree - it would probably be a bit flexy without some support - might cause some stress cracks in the gelcoat. I don't know if I'll remove the foam there or not, but if I do I'll add some other method of support.

Sunbeam
 
I took that project on this winter. I cut into the v berth area to find only about 2 cu ft of foam in each compartment. I used a hand saw and palm sander to remove the foam. Painted with marine paint and installed Bomar 10x20 hatches. I moved some of the foam all the way forward, filled in with some expanding foam to completely fill the area (forward most 1/3). Made a couple of bulkheads to block off the area. I like the idea of having some foam to help keep her afloat. At least bow up. I posted some pictures in my album labeled "V Berth hatches"
The whole project took about 8 hours. Well worth the effort for the needed storage.
Bob
 
Since the topic is being discussed here, and since it's been awhile since I looked at this sort of thing, I decided to look again. For those interested, this web page shows the formulas for the foam, and how they figure it all. It's a fair bit of effort and math, but at the end they run us through an example calculation, on an 18' boat that weighs about 2500# - so that's easy to follow (the 18-footer requires 25 cubic feet of foam, presuming 2 lb. density polyurethane). They also explain a bit about the distribution and what the foam is supposed to be accomplishing.

(Note that boats over 20' in length are not required to have flotation foam)

http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilder_s_handbook/flotation_part1_e.aspx

Sunbeam
 
That looks like a great idea - especially for an Angler!

Sunbeam

PS: Too late to edit my last post, but I was actually thinking I was in a different thread (the "water leak forces winter projects" thread, which was also discussing foam but had gotten a bit more into the flotation aspect).
 
I like the over the gas tank access cut out you made. Saw it in the album.

Skeeter":1syz09bz said:
I took that project on this winter. I cut into the v berth area to find only about 2 cu ft of foam in each compartment. I used a hand saw and palm sander to remove the foam. Painted with marine paint and installed Bomar 10x20 hatches. I moved some of the foam all the way forward, filled in with some expanding foam to completely fill the area (forward most 1/3). Made a couple of bulkheads to block off the area. I like the idea of having some foam to help keep her afloat. At least bow up. I posted some pictures in my album labeled "V Berth hatches"
The whole project took about 8 hours. Well worth the effort for the needed storage.
Bob
Click to expand...
 
Mike_J":l01rigfp said:
I like the over the gas tank access cut out you made. Saw it in the album.
Click to expand...
I noticed that too! I've been thinking of putting my washdown pump there (or same place but stbd side) and then stowing the hose in that area and pulling it out of either an opening like that or maybe a round plate or something. Or maybe storing extra line there. It was nice to see the idea in action :thup

Sunbeam
 
Thanks for the link Sunbeam, that's interesting. I'm glad boats over 20 feet don't need floatation, otherwise I would need a bigger boat just to support the floatation requierment. I wonder how the balsa core would factor into the formula.
Bob
 
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