Factory Guys <<<<<---- Look Here

Rich F, and all our espoused Dealers,

Here is a thought. If someone buys a new boat, and there is a warranty involved, there is not only an implied relationship but also a contractual relationship established. It would seem that, especially in keeping with the 80/20 or 90/10 theory of business building, if there was something that needed to be taken care of under that contractual relationship, it would make really good sense to make that existing customer premier#1 on the priority list, and all effort expended to take care of that customer pronto.

Along that line, it would seem that the factory, in wanting to promote their product, would INSIST that their dealer would follow in that same vein, in an all out effort to KEEP the CUSTOMER satisfied (withing reason) and in so doing, increase the chances of KEEPING the CUSTOMER.

Why should somebody spend their hard earned $$,$$$$ to be subjected to the plight of he-said, she-said (factory vs dealer) nonsense, when by buying a used boat you get what you pay for and you pay for what you get. Like JimB, I like the smell of new 'glass, and I like the comfort of a good warranty. I like to know that the factory is able to turn out new boats and that the dealers are selling and maintaining them, too. Dealers that don't do customer service are no good for the product or the factory, and enough of that kind of dealer and the factory is going to see a very negative swing in product moved. Enough of that kind of "customer service" and there won't be much need for the factory. Bad cycle. So let's promote good service, and improved products.

A friend of mine bought a new boat last fall from a place a bit north of the factory. After taking it back for some warranty service it went back to the factory, where it has remained for months. It was confirmed to be there at the SBS, and though they are finished now, it is waiting for a convenient time to go back to a dealer who obviously has not made keeping his customer #1. Too bad, bad news travels farther and faster than good. My friend is just to nice a guy to put it all out here, thus the attempt at not being to specific. He has multiple phone and e-mail contacts with few responses, and even less action.

I would like to see some of the dealer views on warranty work and the relationship with the factory, and the factorys views on the dealers and their customer service policies. Am I too far out of line? I am sure there are reputable, respectable, and reliable dealers out there, but how in the world can you be sure before you buy?

(And yes, we have given the dock, driveway, parking lot and round the bay tours too.)

Harvey
SleepyC
 
I think the issue of dealer follow-up is a good point, after all they are the face we deal with. My experience with my last boat is that generally it isn't the boat that is the issue but the engine. I had a heck of a time getting it in for regular service at the dealer (required to maintain the warranty). Obviously factories aren't going to do this, it has to be the dealer. Unlike auto dealerships that have more factory influence, you can't jump to another dealer to maintain your factory warranty, at least not if you expect the same level of service. Most boat dealers offer their own customers priority in service spots and if you didn't buy your boat or engine from them, you wait just to get in.

So in a round about way, I think the factory could exert more influence over the dealers like they do in the auto industry. Right now, boat dealers are more like grocery stores that just choose to carry certain products and don't really follow up as well as they could. Probably a result of the economy of scale the boat industry deals with but not very satisfying to the customer. If you do buy used, there isn't the product loyalty by the manufacturers to their products like there is in the auto world either.

A bit rambly, sorry about that.
 
DoryLvr":1id4uuls said:
....Unlike auto dealerships that have more factory influence, you can't jump to another dealer to maintain your factory warranty, at least not if you expect the same level of service....
Click to expand...

This will depend on the caliber of the dealer. Service revenue is service revenue and the smart dealerships recognize this. If you bought a product from them I agree they will probably offer you better service but if they really give you an attitude they don't deserve you as a customer and go elsewhere.
 
Hello,
Times are tough and the pond is drying up all the predators are standing shoulder to shoulder there are not enough minnows.
What I think should happen is that C-Dory needs to make sure it's boats are at least represented in boat shows at least in all major markets. Are they in Boston, Phila, Atlantic City, Baltimore Chicago? This are major population centers which I don't think C-Dory is well represented. Now shows are expensive, but what if the factory people enlisted the help of the C-Brats to provide clean boats to exhibit at the shows to at least get some exposure to these markets were the dealers are non existent or unwilling to make the effort. By using C-Brat's boats owners with owners testimonials etc. these shows could be covered with a fraction of the costs of getting new boats from the dealers or the factory. The factory could provide the sales people. The costs for getting boats into the shows could be born by the factory and some sort of genuine considerations of what ever could be given to C-Brats who participate. Maybe this sounds crazy but I think the C-brats ad the Factory can work together to get though these frustrating times. You might just be protecting your warranty provider. Used or new every C-Dory out on the water is a powerful sales tool. Maybe current owners could carry a few late model brochures to hand out to prospective buyers. C-Dory's have a perfect fit in this current market with their simple sturdy construction,ecomonical operation, easy to tow, a factory who now cares and an owners group who wants only the best for all concerned.
D.D. I will buy a C-Dory in 09
 
Maybe the factory could lower the price of the boats or provide assistance to their dealers with flooring costs. I don't think the underlying demand for C-Dory boats has waned. I was quite bemused at the SBS recently upon seeing several dealers suggest that, if a particular boat were purchased "right now", the buyer could avoid upcoming price increases. Reality takes a while to set in I guess. Mike.
 
Dave,

Your post brings up some interesting ideas. It would be great if C-Dory's were represented at boat shows in major population areas, but there are some problems with using our own boats as display boats. Show boats frequently take a beating and items are often stolen or damaged by show-goers who are not really boaters, just someone with time to kill. Also, I have worked a number of the major national shows and trust me, they tape down the lid of the toilets for a reason! In addition, most shows will not let a used boat on the floor (unless it's one of the rare used boat shows) and many will not even allow a new, unsold last year's model be displayed.

I also share your frustration with our beloved C-Dory's not being seen at shows in major areas of population, especially areas where boating is very popular. For instance, the Great Lakes states have 35% of the registered boats in the country and there is a dearth of dealers in this area. As far as I know, there are only TWO C-Dory's in Ohio and every time we are cruising on Lake Erie and stop for the night, we are so mobbed by interested boaters that we have joked abut getting a take-a-number machine to put on our dock!

You are also correct that satisfied owners are a great selling tool/resource. When we were at the SBS a few years ago, I offered the factory guys my time (gratis) to help work shows within a reasonable distance, explaining that I had worked NYC, Annapolis and Miami in the past. I received no response. I know that plenty of savvy owners would also be glad to do the same.

Hopefully, with the current, more user-friendly and responsive owners things will change as we work our way through this financial morass. Also, the dealer network will hopefully expand into some more lucrative areas, but most dealers in this area are tightening their belts to ride out this mess and only hope to survive, rather than take on a new line of boats.

Until then, we'll keep willingly showing Valkyrie to all interested people at rest areas, gas stations, restaurants, marinas and so on. I give one of our "Valkyrie" cards to those people and that has not only contact info for us, but also C-Brats and the factory. Now if Marcia would just quit rolling her eyes when someone says, "Can I ask you a few questions about your boat?", knowing that our time departure time has just been lengthened by at least fifteen minutes!

Nick
"Valkyrie"
 
A few times my local dealer (Master Marine) has brought a couple of representative C-Dory models to a large local marina (Cap Sante) for a day of sea trials. They advertised these events ahead of time. I dunno how effective they were but owners could volunteer to work with the factory and the local dealer to provide a "C-Dory Day" in various locales. That way the dealers would not have to fully commission a boat on the floor for sea trial, the owners get to show off their boats, and the factory gets exposure. These events could be advertised at the same time a boat show was in town, too.

Warren
 
westward":1x8kx022 said:
Maybe the factory could lower the price of the boats or provide assistance to their dealers with flooring costs. I don't think the underlying demand for C-Dory boats has waned. I was quite bemused at the SBS recently upon seeing several dealers suggest that, if a particular boat were purchased "right now", the buyer could avoid upcoming price increases. Reality takes a while to set in I guess. Mike.
Click to expand...

I don't know who you were talking to- I didn't hear any talk of avoiding price increases- however, the factory was offering a factory rebate for boats purchased at the show, so once the show ended, that opportunity was gone. Or are you talking about other brands of boats?

As far as other brands, there were some close out boats that once gone the price would not be repeated. And thanks to Olympic Boat Centers, Show Prices are no longer perceived as "special". For the last two years we have marked trailers way down to move a volume at the show, and have clearly posted that after the show the price would be back up to normal. And it was. Because I believe if we are going to do a "show" promotion, then it will only be good at the show.

The factory has programs in place to help with flooring costs that dealers can take advantage of, and are holding the line on price where they can.

The reality of the Seattle Boat Show is that we could have had the boats at 50% off, and not sold any more than we did. Price isn't the issue with buyers right now, it is fear of the future.
 
Our experience with Fluid has been nothing but positive. They have done what they said they would do when they said they would do it. They have provided support and information in a timely fashion, and have been a joy to work with.

The boats are arriving clean and are ready to show after removing protective tape.

Compare this with our last manufacturer. We never knew what a boat would contain. We had 4 of the same model on the lot at one time, all built differently. Production changes would be made with no word to the dealer. We ordered a replacement for a boat we sold that had been built within the last six months, and the factory had no one on staff who knew how to build it. Turnover was that high.

Boats would be ordered for customers, and features that were important to the buyer that were on the show room boat would have been discontinued as a cost cutting measure. There was no pride shown by the line employees.

Warranty claims would never be paid. And even if they were, the manufacturer pays at a significantly reduced shop rate. So warranty work (and with that brand there was lots) would be done on the dealer's dime.

That manufacturer would run boat show promotions (buy at the show, get a $1000 gas card) and would have to be hounded to come through with the premium, often nearly a year later. We finally got smart, after trying to make the best of the situation, and dropped the line.

Fluid- Everybody there has been professional and helpful and wants to be sure we have the tools needed to succeed in marketing their boats. Sucks that we have an economic downturn now, because we are really excited about the line, including the strength of the C-Brats.

Suggestions for additions are good. But remember that anything added costs money. That means either the price has to increase, or profit for the manufacturer and dealer (especially the dealer) goes down.

These are not high volume boats. The worst selling car model sells in one year 10 times what a successful boat model (of any manufacturer) sells over it's production life. Everything in the boat is hand built. No robots, no automation.

Boats don't have the volume to offer special financing (which would have to be built into the price), leasing (oh my god what a mess that could be) or buy back guarantees.

Actually, there is a buy back guarantee. The factory buys back from the flooring company unpaid boats from dealers that go out of business. So the factory is very careful who they set up as a dealer. Imagine the cost if a small manufacturers had to take back 10 boats and pay back the flooring company.

It would be great to have displays in all the major boat shows. But without a local dealer, who would service the boats? There is currently no dealer for Carver, SIlverton or Cruisers in the Pacific Northwest. Hence they were not at the Seattle Boat Show (despite being good selling product for the last ten years or more).

Don't forget that in almost all cases, it is the dealer that pays for the boat show expenses (tens of thousands of dollars in many cases), and that many shows only let in dealers who belong to the parent organization. So even if the factory wanted to do a traveling show, they would have a hard time getting into these shows, assuming that there would be space available (often there is a long waiting list).

Additional dealer network would be nice, and is a goal of Fluid. But the reality right now is that flooring lines are being scaled back, and one of the major lenders has abandoned marine, and the other major player is rumored to be considering the same. No flooring line of credit means finding a dealer who can pay cash for the boats as they are built. Very few people in the marine industry have that kind of cash reserve. And those that might, don't often understand the appeal of the C-Dory, nor know how to sell them.

Anyway- that's some insight from the dealer level. I love the fact that the Brats are so passionate about the boats. As a dealer, we have to temper our passion with dollars and cents- or sense.
 
Good thoughts all, Matt. Thanks for doing what you do and for the info. Too bad we missed meeting you at SBS09, or if we did, I didn't realize it.

Charlie
 
All that I have heard about Fluid Marine plus my own limited experience with them has been positive and I hope they are able to stay afloat. I know I take every opportunity to talk up C-Dory, and not only used boats, not just because I want the company to survive but because the boats are so good and so much fun I want others to be able to enjoy them as we do. I hope that Fluid Marine understands that the comments on this thread are made with the best of intentions. Think of the stress they are under right now! Although I am no fan of Master Marine I think Warren's idea has some potential. I for one would be happy to serve as a "satisfied customer" for C-Dory in about any way that would help the factory.
 
Matt Gurnsey":3350w9x3 said:
....
It would be great to have displays in all the major boat shows. But without a local dealer, who would service the boats? There is currently no dealer for Carver, SIlverton or Cruisers in the Pacific Northwest. Hence they were not at the Seattle Boat Show (despite being good selling product for the last ten years or more).

.....
Click to expand...

Hi Matt,
I suppose it's a Catch 22...what comes first - dealership to build boat demand or boat demand that leads to dealer interest? Many owners purchased their vessels from dealers hundreds of miles from home. A local dealer is not required for service. Of course a reputable local dealer would be great to have.

As long as the company takes care of me I'm happy to help take care of them. I would be happy to help out at a boat show free of charge. An experienced owner would be an excellent marketing vehicle for a boat at a show. In some cases more so than a dealer, particularly if the dealer rep does not own the vessel. In either case it would be very complimentary.
 
How many bailout dollars could be saved if GM Ford and Chrysler had an owners group like this? This is truly an unbelievable group.
 
Matt , I owe you a beer ! Nicely done . Saved me a lot of time .
Wefings was at New Orleans and Atlanta , both NMMA Shows [major boat shows] with C Dory Products . First time in New Orleans ever . We were trying to expand the horizons of those interesting folks from down on the the Bayou as well as the New York of the South, Atlanta. We love to take the C Dorys to boat shows .However it is expensive and rarely do C Dory folks buy on impulse . So its [going to boat shows] a long term investment .Its a difficult business decision to make when cashflow is at a seasonal and unprecedented economic low .Seattle is a little different as far as shows go . It seems to go on forever .Ours are about 3-5 days . We ALWAYS have C Brats and C Dory owners come to see us and say hello . Some like [Fl Rockytop] Roger, and Bob [Thataway] and [Jennykatz] Jim and I guy I remember named Byrdman,as well as many others help us out with their enthusiasm and presence. But the bottom line is that its easy to pull back when folks aren't buying . And the catch 22 is if you stop marketing will you further reduce drawing your few possible prospects while going broke anyways? I have been a little disappointed myself with the constant urging to buy used and general negativity [I know its not everyone, but many ] . We try very hard as a dealer , and there is a level of service we try to maintain . We cant do it without new boat sales . C Dory cant exist either without new boat sales . With a limited amount boats , and no new ones , there will be no C Brat growth , no new brilliant exchanges of ideas, and I believe that's one of the things we are here for .
C Dory's new management and ownership is a pleasure to work with , are trying and doing the right things , and we all are thinking about how to thrive and survive in the current environment. Just a few of my thoughts as a C Brat and a Dealer.
Marc
 
GOYO":1hlwij49 said:
How many bailout dollars could be saved if GM Ford and Chrysler had an owners group like this? This is truly an unbelievable group.
Click to expand...

Good idea, and I'm sure there already exist some groups that are centered around specific automobile brands or models.

But to really be effective, they'd have to consistently produce a high quality product competitive with others in the marketplace and quit giving away excessive salaries, fringe benefits, and retirement packages away to their employees and executives somewhere along the line.

They've had 50 years to wake up since the foreign car invasion began in the 1950's and have behaved as though they were invulnerable to the basic laws of economics and good business that all others must live by.

I hate to see them in this condition and feel for their employees, but can we afford to bail them out indefinitely? Who's next after the banking and automotive industries?

We, the American People, have already voted on the issue with our automotive purchases. Do we now have to pay for their folly anyway with our tax dollars for the foreseeable future?

I'm 66, and think they've been asleep at the wheel since I was 16 in 1958, do we now pat 'em on the back and deliver a trainload of gold bars from Fort Knox in their back pockets?

Do we really basically believe in capitalism, free enterprise, competition, and reasonable freedom from governmental control and involvement?

IMHO, it's time to let them declare bankruptcy and reorganize with what they've got left, and wake up to the reality that everyone else in this country, individually, and as a nation, are now facing.

Now I'll be getting off my soapbox and going down into my bomb shelter for the evening. Sorry for the rant, and the off topic excursion.

Your C-Brat bud...

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
I am going to drive my american truck with the japanese engine and canadian and mexican parts and french tires home to have a italian beer !@
Marc
 
I'll apologize for the excursion. Sorry.

If Mike or Bill would like to remove that post and this one too, (too late, past 30 minutes, for me), feel free to do so. Joe.
 
Joe, well said, the first one I mean. Don't remove it, it was right on!

Oh wait, I gotta go earn more money to pay my mortgage and earn my pay and pay my taxes so I can bail out those who spent more than they could afford to buy houses with mortgages they didn't understand..

You can take mine out too if you like....

Charlie
 
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