Factory Electrical Panel bad crimps

[CDory23]

Hi all,

I've had intermittent issues with my c dory factory electrical panel on my 2003 22' Cruiser. Power for components wired to the panel would lose power for just a second. This became especially annoying for my autopilot system (auxillary button) because all it takes is a fraction of a second of power loss and your heading is lost and needs to be reset.

Long story short. I finally got to inspecting and found practically every single wire crimp in that area is bad. This includes the 6 gauge main from the battery. That crimp specifically had wire strands cut from it to fit a 12g contact! The other crimps at first glance don't look bad because there is a crimp mark on the insulation but the metal contact was not actually touched. I'm surprised I haven't had more issues. Everything in the area is secure and neatly organized with zip ties etc...but a little pull on the wire and it will come right out.

I am now going through all of the electrical in the boat and crimping all contacts and checking for any loose connections.

It is a little dissapointing to see this quality of work in general, but especially since I belive most if not all was done at the factory. I know they have gone through a fair share of owners throughout the years.

POINT IS: If you have any similar issues check for loose connections at the panel! Simple but annoying problem.

 

[rogerbum]

Hi all,

I've had intermittent issues with my c dory factory electrical panel on my 2003 22' Cruiser. Power for components wired to the panel would lose power for just a second. This became especially annoying for my autopilot system (auxillary button) because all it takes is a fraction of a second of power loss and your heading is lost and needs to be reset.

Long story short. I finally got to inspecting and found practically every single wire crimp in that area is bad. This includes the 6 gauge main from the battery. That crimp specifically had wire strands cut from it to fit a 12g contact! The other crimps at first glance don't look bad because there is a crimp mark on the insulation but the metal contact was not actually touched. I'm surprised I haven't had more issues. Everything in the area is secure and neatly organized with zip ties etc...but a little pull on the wire and it will come right out.

I am now going through all of the electrical in the boat and crimping all contacts and checking for any loose connections.

It is a little dissapointing to see this quality of work in general, but especially since I belive most if not all was done at the factory. I know they have gone through a fair share of owners throughout the years.

POINT IS: If you have any similar issues check for loose connections at the panel! Simple but annoying problem.

Much of the electrical work is actually done at the dealer.

 

[AstoriaDave]

15 year old crimps???

Dollars to donuts an amateur did those, somewhere along the way.

 

[rogerbum]

Hi all,

I've had intermittent issues with my c dory factory electrical panel on my 2003 22' Cruiser. Power for components wired to the panel would lose power for just a second. This became especially annoying for my autopilot system (auxillary button) because all it takes is a fraction of a second of power loss and your heading is lost and needs to be reset.

Long story short. I finally got to inspecting and found practically every single wire crimp in that area is bad. This includes the 6 gauge main from the battery. That crimp specifically had wire strands cut from it to fit a 12g contact! The other crimps at first glance don't look bad because there is a crimp mark on the insulation but the metal contact was not actually touched. I'm surprised I haven't had more issues. Everything in the area is secure and neatly organized with zip ties etc...but a little pull on the wire and it will come right out.

I am now going through all of the electrical in the boat and crimping all contacts and checking for any loose connections.

It is a little dissapointing to see this quality of work in general, but especially since I belive most if not all was done at the factory. I know they have gone through a fair share of owners throughout the years.

POINT IS: If you have any similar issues check for loose connections at the panel! Simple but annoying problem.

Much of the electrical work is actually done at the dealer.

I retract that - from an early post (2014) by CDory23 - he indicates that "I bought my 2003 22' C dory Cruiser with twin Yamaha 40's yesterday and I'm excited. It was a one owner boat and came from the factory with Furuno Radar/gps/sonar. Raymarine auto pilot, and VHF Radio all installed. Everything installed from factory and never any other modifications." That was a time when the factory was selling (and rigging) boats (in addition to dealers).

 

[journey on]

Journey On is a C-Dory we bought in 2005. At that time the harness was a bought-in item, as were the various panels. Any additional equipment would have been installed by the dealer. In our case, that would have been C-Dory, who sold the boat, motor and rigged it to your desire. For Journey On there was no additional equipment, just options from the standard list: Wallis and a 2nd battery.

I don't know when the factory changed hands and the Reynolds started building boats, But it was before we got our boat.

We've never experience any bad factory crimps or wires jammed into small terminals.

Boris

 

[rogerbum]

Journey On is a C-Dory we bought in 2005. At that time the harness was a bought-in item, as were the various panels. Any additional equipment would have been installed by the dealer. In our case, that would have been C-Dory, who sold the boat, motor and rigged it to your desire. For Journey On there was no additional equipment, just options from the standard list: Wallis and a 2nd battery.

I don't know when the factory changed hands and the Reynolds started building boats, But it was before we got our boat.

We've never experience any bad factory crimps or wires jammed into small terminals.

Boris

I bought my 22 from the factory and rec'd it in 2002. They were also my dealer. The wiring they did at that time didn't have any problems (other than not much was documented).

 

[starcrafttom]

The installation of electronic and electrical components on boats is in general piss poor. Now I have a high standard of doing this kind of work because my father has beat it into me over the years. I am no expert but there is little dad does not know about designing, installing and maintaining wiring and electrical components. Or beating knowledge into smart ass teens for that matter. He has had a hand in building every part of the communications systems we use today. From cell to satellite to microwave to fiber optic and even old Motorola car phones. He has been on the front line of all of if. Dad installed new lights and speakers on his boat two years ago. All the wires are isolated and hand soldered before heat shrinked and water proofed. If that boat goes under the recover divers will have music and lights.

My 27 is the worse due to when it was built and how many hands have been in there since ( including mine) I have wires that go no where, come from no where. I found one light that was hooked up to the power twice??? bad crimps, no crimps, cheap connectors etc.

I do suggest that you use. Solder Seal Wire Connectors

Or at least Crimp & Seal Terminal Butt Connector

And this never hurts. Clear Di-Electric grease

Also use cable ties to anchor your wire bundles and take the weight load off of your grounds and positive leads.
this video is good for how to if you do not know , or think you do, how to crimp wire. VERY IMPORTANT at 14:00 in the video. Crimp from the top. One of the main reasons crimps fail

In the near future ( next winter I hope) I will be rebuilding the interior of the 27 and all wire is coming out. I was following one wire last year that changed from black ( ground ) to blue , yellow and read ( power) in the length of the boat. 4 piss poor cheap " auto 100 pack" crimps in that one wire. It all has to come out at some point.

 

[potter water]

It is a 15 year old boat with lots of bumping around on trailers and water I suspect. Some deterioration in the wiring and connections would not be unexpected whether by factory or shade tree.

 

[robhwa]

I can't speak in general, but in my experience, the "professionals" are the best and the worst. Beware of the guy that says they "specialize" in all makes, foreign and domestic. I've had roofing installed with tar paper started from the top, rifle scopes mounted turned 90 degrees counterclockwise, poor crimping that appeared to be done with flat pliers on my truck for a new radio and CB, and holes drilled in my boats that left the balsa or plywood core exposed to water entry, including an anchor winch that looks like it was installed by a 3-year-old by wiggling a too small drill bit back and forth to get a larger hole. All by "professionals".

I've also had truly excellent work for a great price. Gunsmiths that don't leave a scratch on anything, and welding to build up aluminum when I drug my motor across pavement without putting it up. When you find that excellent service, keep going back.

The work and crimps that seem to be original work from the factory on my 2003 C-dory 22 appear to be excellent, and the wiring all has the tinning, etcl, so you might have had some custom work done that resulted in poor crimps. It is not unusual to cut out a few strands of wire to install a connection, since voltage drop is mostly a function of length and gauge, not the connection. If the person installed an oversized wire, for instance, over a long distance as I have done to bring batteries forward and weight off the stern, this might have been necessary. However, if I could, I would cut out that part and install a full-size connector that can include all of the strands, and solder it to boot. When you redo those crimps, it would be a good idea to put heat shrink tubing and cover as much of the crimp as you can...a little extra work, a lot better protection from corrosion, and additional wire length that won't short. Make sure to buy the proper crimping pliers, and why not solder it?

 

[starcrafttom]

the "professionals" are the best and the worst.

So true. I was buying tires this week for the tow vehicle. I dread buying tires because there is no worse idiot then a idiot with a air tool. In the pass 30 years I have had tire guys ruin 10 studs while getting new tires. I now give them a choice , I get to watch them start the lugs by hand or I pull the truck into the parking lot and take all of lugs off one by one looking for the one they crossed threaded. This week while I was there, tire alignment and other work, in 4 hours they crossed threaded lugs on two different cars. I got to watch them do mine.

The very best cabinet builder I know is a teacher, best mechanic I know is a programmer. Ok hes second best.

 

[journey on]

Well, as far as banging around in the water and on the trailer, I'm sure that that didn't affect the factory crimps. Or any electrical crimps. Unless the boat was hanging by a wire.

I got a lecture once on crimping spacecraft wires. The message wasn't that they were the strongest or the best way to attach wires to pins, lugs, connectors but it was the most reproducible way to make a good connection. And if you think that a boat gets a good shaking, try a spacecraft, sitting on the nose of a rocket going through dense air (max Q). That shake test is hard to watch, since it could be a year of work down the tubes. So I have faith in good crimps. And Journey On's harness was made by people specializing in harnesses.

I do not speak to add ons, done later. They can be crappy, I don't deny. That's why I do all my electrical work myself.

By the way you crimp on the top, because that's where the joint is. You want to force that joint down into the wire. And I never trim the diameter down to make it fit. Whats wrong with a larger size terminal? Bad connections can cause overheating at the joint.

Sorry, but making good connections has been a large part of my life, personal and at work.

Boris

 

[smckean (Tosca)]

......and solder it to boot

I read once that soldered connectors are discouraged on boats because such connections have a greater chance of breaking due to vibration than crimped-only connections.

What's the truth? Or is it a matter of style?

 

[rogerbum]

......and solder it to boot

I read once that soldered connectors are discouraged on boats because such connections have a greater chance of breaking due to vibration than crimped-only connections.

What's the truth? Or is it a matter of style?

For marine use stranded wires are the ABYC standard as that allows the wire to flex better in the high vibration environment of a boat. Soldering as the sole method of connection is discouraged as it essentially takes the stranded wire and converts the soldered section into a rigid section. From another site "ABYC standards prohibit soldering as the sole means of making a connection because the newly solid wire is subject to cracking or breaking through vibration and flexing. A more practical solution is to use a crimp connector described above. Wires should never be joined simply by soldering and taping (or heat shrink); however, if solder is used, use only 60%/40% rosin core or solid solder, soldering after the butt connector is crimped. Acid core solder as used in plumbing may never be used in any electrical wiring."

I use crimp connectors with heat shrink built in. If you purchase them in a large set from Amazon, they are far cheaper than if you buy 5 or 10 packs at a marine vendor.

To add extract protection against corrosion, I usually further cover those with liquid electrical tape. Properly done, crimps will last a lifetime.

 

[starcrafttom]

If you are soldering you need to anchor or isolate the connection. This will eliminate most of the vibration, unless you are looking to orbit the earth. That must have been interesting work.

I like to use the crimps with the built in heat shrink after spraying the electrical grease in the crimp. I think that cost wise , both in dollar and time, this is the best compromise. I have a lot of work to do in my boat because of both past work and things I have done in a pinch.

Because I think of the age of my boat none of the original wiring was very good. Poor quality and cheap connections. I know that no one wants to say " yeah the boat I decided to buy and spend $$$ on was built poorly or parts of the work was done poorly , but I have worked on factory floors before. Poor work gets passed on until some one gets fired. And all workers are not beacons of purity and perfection. I mean who here wants a late seventies or early eighties USA built car? Quality was shit back then.

I have seen over the years that I have been around boat and cdorys a lot of crappy work by both the MANY factories and the ever changing list of dealer. One of the worst after factory add one jobs I saw was by a local dealer that is the only Washington dealer now. Owner ship of the dealer ship has changed hands. Pass performance is not proof of future performance so just inspect and inspect. I sell homes. Some new constructions with warranties. I always tell my buyers to get a inspection. I have found an attic with NO insulation at all. They missed that house some how. Sewer runs that were not hooked up. Lights that had no switch ( they had covered it up with dry wall and forgot to cut it back out). So buyer beware and inspect inspect.