Ethanol gas and Yamaha 50

Ethanol is the perfect solvent.

In people*, it dissolves marriages, families, careers, hopes, dreams and more.

In older marine engines**, it dissolves rubber fuel hoses, O-rings, rubber
carburetor parts, old sludge in fuel tanks, plastic fuel separator bowls and more.

Aye.

*Grandpa used to say, "You can drink'em pretty, but you can't drink'em thin."

**Pre 1990 or so
 
Well, gas with 10% ethanol added seems to be the devil.

Just for the record, Journey On started out with straight gas in 2005 and then, surprise, all I could find at the gas station was 10% ethanol. So it's been 10 years of ethanol and other that a slight loss in mileage I have no problems. In addition the car and both trucks run ethanol with one a 63 Chevvy.

So I'm not sure what the fuss is about, IF THE VEHICLE IS DESIGNED FOR IT. Everything I run is built after 2005 and says "good for 10% ethanol". I'll let the boat and the Ford truck sit over the winter and they start right up. I do run STP Gas Treatment through one a year or so to get rid of any water, but I did that with straight gas too.

the '63 has been re-plumbed recently, so it's good for alcohol.

Boris
 
journey on":3g8i3z7y said:
.... So I'm not sure what the fuss is about, IF THE VEHICLE IS DESIGNED FOR IT. ...
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I don't have any problem with E10 auto gas either. My boat usually sits over winter 4-5 months with about 1/4-1/2 a tank of gas left over from the previous season. Sometimes I put Sta-Bil in it, sometimes I forget. Doesn't seem to cause any problems. My engine is an '07 BF90D.

My car ('01) also sits for long periods (because of work travel). It may take 6 months or longer to use a tank of gas. Doesn't seem to cause any problems there either.
 
E-10 works OK in cars, trucks and outboards that have fuel injection.

It's the carburetors that cause problems. If the fuel system is sealed (as it is with fuel injection) the E-10 does not evaporate.

If E-10 sits in a carb's float bowl and evaporates and absorbs moisture from the air, there can be really bad problems.

Since most boat fuel tanks are vented, the E-10 in the tank can absorb moisture from the air, the amount depends on temps and relative humidity at the storage location. Too much water in the E-10 causes 'phase separation' where the water and alcohol separate from the gasoline and sink to the bottom of the tank. If that is sucked into the engine, lots of problems ensue.

My advice for storage would be to use stabilizer in the gas and to run carb engines dry.
 
Ethanol in gas left in a tank for a long time degrades into corn syrup and clogs the carburetors or fuel injectors. A year or two ago, my gummed up motor died on me at sea because I left ethanol gas in the motor over a year of non use. My mechanic tried to clean it and suggested I run it with fuel cleaner in the gas, and it might gradually improve. I added the carb cleaner to fresh best quality detergent gas and carried a can of spray starter. Never-the-less, I could not restart my motor at sea and had to be towed back to my marina.

It could have been a deadly misjudgment, trying the cheap solution my mechanic's suggested. I was crossing from Marina del Rey to Catalina and became disabled just past the shipping lanes, but wind blew me back into them. My two hour wait for a tow probably took ten years off my life. I was lucky it was a Sunday and there was no ship traffic. I am embarrassed to disclose such stupidity on my part, but humble myself to you all to offer my mistake as a lesson, maybe a life saving lesson.

I ended up paying $780 in Los Angeles to have my single Yamaha 50's four carburetors removed, disassembled into parts, cleaned and reassembled. I learned there are no short cuts to boat maintenance when it comes to safety. My life is worth $780, at least. Maybe my wife might say even a thousand or more. It certainly is worth the slight extra effort to drain the motor of gas when I'm done for the day.

Now I switch to a small 2.5 gal tank with gas preservative added to the gas when I near my final port. (The preservative is quite expensive at boat stores, cheaper at Home Depot.) I run the motor dry at the dock before putting C-Pup16 on the trailer. (It's easy to do by disconnecting my portable gas tank used on my 16 ft cruiser). I use a siphon to transfer gas remaining in my portable tanks into my car tank and store the boat gas tanks empty until next trip. I always leave port with fresh gas.

Yep. Ethanol sucks for boats, and the economy. It only benefits corn farmers and Monsanto, who lobby for laws requiring it. It distorts farming decisions on what to grow, making our eaten food more expensive. I hate the stuff.

Keith
C-Pup16
 
Not to mention that the overall environmental impact greater and thermodynamic return is lower of growing/using ethanol for a fuel supplement than if you just used straight gasoline. Maybe at one time there was a potential need for it in a world of gas shortages. But there is a glut of gasoline right now and even then there are better alternatives (at least for cars).
 
Unless I can't help it I will never use ethanol in any boat again. There are several factors involved:

1. Ethanol attracts water (and we all know boats stay far away from moisture <rolls eyes> so if you leave your boat with ethanol fuel in it make sure the tank if FULL

2. It is highly corrosive to old lines and can break them down

3. If you have a dirty tank from years of use the ethanol will "clean" thus breaking up the gunk and allowing it to flow through your engine (think problems) to your carb.

4. As was the case with me and my 89 Mercruiser it has a lower boiling point leading to vapor lock in some older engines where the fuel lines run close to a very hot engine. This happened to me on the Columbia by hood river on a really bad day a year ago and I was dead in the water. I ran ethanol as an exception as I was running late to get into the water and we were trying to make it over the dam on time coming from Portland. We had water breaching the back of my boat sitting still, my bilge pump was working overtime. (4 hours later a fishing boat towed us to a dock)

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... ock.html#b

Last but not least what idiot came up with the idea to turn food crops into fuel?
 
Last but not least what idiot came up with the idea to turn food crops into fuel?
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I really have to bite my tongue on this one.

You will find it more and more difficult to locate non-ethanol fuel in the PNW. Most, if not all, marinas here in the PNW have been forced to purchase it as the main refinery in Anacortes will make real dyno gas only as an exception. I got this info straight from the manager of our local farm co-op, where dyno gas is still available...for a premium price. She told me they used to buy it directly from the refinery. But beginning a few years ago, they no longer could buy it from Anacortes. This forced them to order it shipped in from Tacoma,from a supplier that ordered large amounts from the refinery. So the Anacortes refinery makes an order, ships it 75+ miles south and the co-op orders it and RE-ships it BACK NORTH 50 miles, to their store. Yep. I kid you not. It's so expensive I no longer fill the boat with it. I do fill my classic cars and my small engines (mower, power washer etc) with it, however.

I've used this but the info may or may not be accurate. Some of the stations near us on this list no longer sell dyno gas, so...

https://www.pure-gas.org/
 
When we started going to the Friday Harbor gathering 5 years ago, the only place we could get non-ethanol gas was at Rosario Resort. Now Roche and Friday Harbor have non-ethanol. I know La Connor is also non-ethanol. I feel so much happier cruising in the San Juans now :D

Martin.
 
ssobol":2f31p7y5 said:
Not to mention that the overall environmental impact greater and thermodynamic return is lower of growing/using ethanol for a fuel supplement than if you just used straight gasoline. Maybe at one time there was a potential need for it in a world of gas shortages. But there is a glut of gasoline right now and even then there are better alternatives (at least for cars).
Click to expand...

Ethanol in gasoline provides a farmer, instead of an oil refiner, with revenue. The "footprint" you are referring to, is a very complicated and unsolved equation. You can be sure there are significant costs and environmental penalties produced by obtaining both fuels. I am very well educated on the subject, I would chose an ethanol economy over an oil economy, but it is not that simple, and certainly not possible. The fact remains, ethanol recycles CO'2, gasoline does not.
Very few boats or cars have carbs, and old gas with or without ethanol is likely to gum up the works if it sits for months. I have been running dirtbikes, chainsaws, outboards, cars and trucks forever on fuel that contains ethanol. If I am not going to use a piece of equipment, I store it properly. I have had problems with engines, but I would say that as a trend over the last decade, reliabilty has improved. So does that mean ethanol fuel is actually superior? I am just trying to point out that many people run ethanol fuel with no issues. Many people run non ethanol fuel with no issues. That does not, a hypothesis make.
I am not a particularly lucky guy. (note dirtbikes) I love explosive fuel in internal combustion engines, but I dig my lithium battery power tools, too. I was a late convert, becuase I loved the power of my porter cable circular saw. Then I noticed it weighed twice as much as my Ryobi. I was not winding cords all the time. My observation is that people need a reason to distrust things that are good for them. They may think engines always work unless there is ethanol in the fuel. BTW, I use Stabil in portable engines and boats.
 
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