etech 90 - so wazzup?

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its been forever since postin here... hello! :oops:

right down to matters, the redfox needs a new engine, the 2000 F-115 did something like crack a ring or two when i hit my last sand bar last month on the stikine delta in rout to laconte glacier :( i am so bummed! :cry the old girl has only 2000 hours.

i was here digging through old info a while boc but found nothing that i needed; what im looking for are some honest and real experiences on the 2010 90 etech mon ?? :xseek (like did the 90 ever get upgraded?) im too bizy to follow up on this stuff so i hope the brats can chime in here?

i repent of my 2 stroke hatred to btw! :xtongue too darn many oil changes on my yami i guess (i do this 50 hr intervals) and i put on way too much milaige here in wrangell (like 11,000 since 9-2006) i figure i use at least 2 cases of sythetic oil in a year any way! not counting oil filters.

also, since she stays in the slip pretty much year-round, the 4-stroke has condensation issues in winter (shorter trips) i figured since the 2 stroke has no recirculating oil (?) that might not be an issue?

anyway, not sure if im going to buy local or not?

im warming up to the etech since they have been out long enough now? but mostly to take off like 96 lbs (!!) makes for less gas burned and a better river runner.
perhaps a dealer here? can match or top the 7200 $ price i found on the east coast? shipping is a killer from there :shock:

other than that, i was thinking of doing sumpin way radical and converting over to the Merc 200 inboard 2-stroke jet! :twisted: but i ain't got any prices on that yet, and i don't think id like to narrow my cruising speeds like you have to do with jets :?

found some really horrible stories on the etechs in a few different places on line, but they are just too radical for me to trust.

is it true i will be puting up with a little more noise by going with this etech?

thanks in advance, and see you at the SBS?! we be showing up with Larry and possibly Tom if it really happens - were planing on it before we wake up dead :xseek :xnaughty
 
We do a half dozen E-Tec 90's every year, and have had good results with the motors.

There were some early problems with the engine not warming up properly, leaving the engine in cold operation mode, but that was an easy fix.

We have seen some problems with water in the fuel damaging the injectors. The E-Tec injector is more complex than what everybody else uses, so is more sensitive to bad fuel.

Run a good fuel filter / water seperator and run StaBil Marine year round and that should take care of the issue.
 
Redfox Greg,

Good to see you posting. I used to enjoy your old site and the interesting projects you were always working on. Let us know if you still have an active site and welcome back to this great forum.

Jim
 
you gize are great and thanks :thup nice to be bocmon to :) i hope we can make it down this winter

it's hard not be dissapointed after watching Evenrudes outdated and bogus video comparrisons on their site, i just can't accept such obviously overblown claims, its too bad they're still doing that.

Never the less, im betting they have a great product and would really love to do this repower with them. That fuel sensitivity does get my attention, you should see the crap that collects in my tanks :o and the drain on the Racor system, makes me think we get some nasty fuel here? or maybe im just blowing through a LOT more?

here is what Yamaha did in response

http://www.yamahapitmansmarine.com.au/b ... p?NewsID=5

feel free to pm me on bids, i think that works still?

the package of cables, ss prop and guages is another 1100 $

the 90 etech = just under 7200.

not sure what i'll do, probably stick with outboards

no more site, im on Larrys yahoo one, a few pix, i have been a real slouch though :) lol just too much going on the last few years, my aging aching back is demanding more butt-time this year - gettin old :dog

i can't find my old emtied out album mons ? or id put up some more here?

ttfn :rainbow
 
Only know one person who swapped out his E-Tech because of the cold run issue.
Before you decide take a close look at Tohatsu, they have been manufacturing a direct injection 2 strokes about as long as Evinrude and have a good reputation. I think there is a recall issue with the 90 but don’t know what year but believe it’s been worked out on new models.

Converting over to the Merc 200 inboard 2-stroke jet, that would be a first for a C-Dory. You may want to attach some aluminum skid plates too! :thup

Good luck with your re-power let us know how it goes.

Welcome back man.
 
I notice that there are no charts with the article.

Our experience with the E-Tecs (and we sell Yamaha as well) is that the E-tec does what their commercials say they will do. Are the videos biased toward Evinrude? Sure, Evinrude produced them, but the outcomes shown in the videos are real.

Pulling the Yamaha powered boat underwater with the same boat with E-Tec power? Yeah, it happened. Would that happen with every horsepower range run head to head? Probably not, but in the very popular 150 horsepower range, the Evinrude enjoys a tremendous advantage in torque due to it's two stroke design, as well as being a V-6 versus an inline 4.

One enging being able to plane the boat- real. And we have a customer that we repowered with twin 175's on his Striper that can plane with one engine, where his freind with the same boat powered by Yami 150's can't.

The bottom line is that we handle three good outboard lines, E-Tec, Suzuki and Yamaha, and each has its areas of strength. When people come in and ask "What's the best engine?" I have to ask what kind of boat and what horsepower. No manufacturer has an entire line that is best in every class.

In the 90 horse class, all three are good engines. Evinrude wins for light weight and hole shot. Suzuki is a close second with their new DF90A models. The Yamaha is a good strong engine as well, but a bit heavier.

We have seen an Evinrude 150 go 2600+ hours in two years with almost no problems. Even after the oil tank was under water at one point from overloading. In fact, in that incident, the batteries were damaged. Fortunately the E-tec was running, and it is the only motor that can run without a battery conected to it.
 
My experience with a 90 ETEC and newer 90 Honda made Honda the clear winner. Aside for some growing pains with the ETEC, the cost of XD-100 oil was getting a little old. I could get 30-40 hours out of a tank (a little less than a gallon) meaning 2 gallons per hundred hours. That was $80 worth of oil. I could use the highest quality synthetic on 100 hour change interval with 200 hours changing the filter and come out way ahead, not to mention I only needed to carry an extra quart (which I have never used) and not an extra gallon.

The other comparison is to remove the cover and compare the engineering design. The Honda 90 was head and shoulders above the ETEC. The layout of cabling and hoses was a work or art. The ETEC 90 had a bad habit of pinchng the tilt wiring harness if you didn't look closely when replacing the cover after adding oil. Try to remove the bottom spark plug on the ETEC (which you will have to do because if you do any idling, it liked to foul plugs)? I now have a Yamaha 150 on my 25 and two 150 Hondas on a 28' Kingfisher. I call it a toss up between Yamaha and Honda. I kind of lean to the Yamaha as it tends to be less proprietary than the Honda, it's engine computer will feed a NMEA 2000 network and you can order the diagnostic software if you want it. The only motors I haven't owned are Tohatsu, Mercury (at least not since 1964), and Suzuki so can't comment on them.

If you go with the Honda BF90D, look at my previous posts on fuel economy so you understand how it will work for you.
 
Welcome Back :thup

As Adeline is still running her original '89 Johnson I watch these motor threads closely.

If(when) she fails would I rebuild, swap out the powerhead, or replace the motor/controls entirely ???

If your reconsidering 2-strokes you might look at the IF you have a qualified tech nearby.
 
Greg, Welcome back. I don't know much about the engine stuff, but I have seen photos of your boat, and it looks like a stainless sculpture gallery. What a talent. Hope to meet at the SBS.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
My 90 E-tec has 500 hours on it. It had a throttle return problem that was fixed under warranty. Couple weeks back I was underway, and the motor flat out quit. DEAD. Got back to ramp under kicker power, discovered it was blowing the 10-Amp fuse under the cowling.

Bayside in Everett looked at it. Their diagnosis is blown EMM (computer). I am barely out of warranty, and BRP will not cover it. All this hype about SAFE mode, well - it doesnt apply in single point of failure like the EMM. Its a $1,600 part.

Up to this point, the engine was OK. I cant really recommend the E-Tec anymore.

You asked for it, you got it.

Sorry Matt.
 
i enjoyed each word in reply here, thanks again :) and yes i hope this SBS is a reality for once on my end

talking today with the local Merc/Yamaha dealer, he would guarantee the merc 200 sport jet does as they claim - get better milage than the yami 115 jet - i kind of figured that was true due to the uncompromising design of inboard jets, also, being this is a small town where you are forced to live with one another (LOL :crook :cry) and there are a ton of Optimax's on all kinds of boats, i think the 2 stroke merc (and others) might be up there with the 4 strokes in longevity now? - - - last year i towed a 2 ton scow 30 miles in late fall at night back onto harbor @ 6.3 knots with my F-115 - that is the only experience i have with the merc opti's --- lol true though. The guy bought a 250 4-s yami :)

that last decade of oil changes, a few things have been brewing in my noggin; as you near your oil change interval, the oil gets more degraded progressivly, i think that is why 4 strokes -could- last longer than they do now in marine aplications when the engine is never free-wheeling as auto's do. This is what is making me want to go 2 atroke...... but i've also seen too many of them being towed back, like i was so proud to do :? so im hoping the new gen' 2 strokes are up there in longevity and reliability finally with the 4's. :rose

so far im really wanting to convert the redfox over to sport jet 200 - - - not sure i can rob a bank over it though :roll: :cigar

i will definitely keep ya up on this decision -

i think the old classic c-dory would be a great inboard jet conversion, even if i have to add a slight v to her hull
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i will add this in honor of the F-115; when new, there was a failed gasket that allowed water (salt w) to make a nice white paste of the oil, turned out we were on a long trip up in prince willy sound and loaded heavy with too steep a prop to boot! so this is a premature failure :sad

up intill i hit that sand bar, i never used a drop of oil between changes, or never even had to adjust the valves! the only thing i regret is the factory defect of the gasket.
----------------------
here is a link to that 200 sport jet http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/je ... et-drives/
 
Redƒox":378j5o7q said:
i enjoyed each word in reply here, thanks again :) and yes i hope this SBS is a reality for once on my end
Click to expand...

Greg, you better be damn well coming to SBS 11, I'm coming all the way from the Right Coast to meet you and show you the T-shirt we had at Langford 05 with your picture on the back. It's a classic...

Charlie :mrgreen:
 
Being a cheap bugger and seeing you said a mere 2000 hours on the engine, what is the matter with simply hanging a fresh long block?

denny-o
 
The National Park outfitted two of their four vessels with brand new Etec 90's this year (twin engines on each vessel). Our older engines are 4 stroke Merc 90's.

Based on my experience with them over the course of this season I prefer the Merc's. Our Etec's definitely smell like 2 strokes and smoke more. Once warmed up I don't notice the smoke but the smell remains. Oddly, the Etec's vibrate a lot more than the Merc's. The Merc's have appreciably more low end torque. The Etec's have a nice power curve from about 2500-4500 and they are certainly smaller and lighter. I realize there could be several factors including props and they way they are setup and such but without knowing those details I prefer the 4-stroke Merc.

I have been happy so far with my Suzuki's on Napoleon. I can plane off with one engine and they are nearly silent runners.

I don't think any of the above are bad engines, just some nuances I have observed.
 
you peeps are wonderful, i am not worthy :embarrased but the humiliation will be good for me :) im a way different mon that i once was, i was once too motivated with pride, which always goes hand in hand with fear, and then things get distorted :twisted: :roll: :oops: im sure we all BTDT right :xlol anyway, your really lighten a fire under my :monty LOL and it is going to be sumpthin i will not forget :love this summer a cupla c-brats got me drunk in the harbor! :xlol thier hospitality really made my day - i only hope i was not too much of a dissapointment :disgust lol really, i might be far different than ya'll might be expecting, i tend to be far better in print than in reality i guess.

OK, thanks for all the input again, you gize i treasure every single post!

in answer to a new long block; that is probably what i was really going to do in the end, i don;t think you can top what i already have anyway.

i found a few rebuild places on the web, and later i found a boaters forum somewhere that told horror stories of them so called rebuilds! then i thought about asking here of any good outfits that do long block exchanges ....

right now i think im going to bite the bullet and just do what i really want to do - - - - - JET! not just to be a hotshot c-dory (LOL :smilep) but to be able to expore more country with far less stress maybe.

i often anchor in places where the prop drags on the bottom and thumps rocks at night when i forget to tilt, also a jet can give you the option of night running. And peace of mind, to a certain extent, in overall navigation. The new Merc sport jet changed everything! so lets hope i can actualy pull this off!

I think i might just do this in stages, so we all can learn :idea :cigar :beer :mrgreen:

like just cut the floor and transom, pop er in and go like hell! :P if she cavitates to much, no biggy, just do adaptations to that easy to work on old classic. I can't wait to get started :rainbow
 
Redfox,

From a C-Brat who really enjoyed your posts in the past, WELCOME BACK! Keep us posted about your engine choice and don't go away. Your posts are still a entertaining as ever.

Peter
C-Dancer & Barquinho
 
Greg-

Nice to see you back and in such good spirits!

(And somewhat CRAZY, as always!)

Your Merc Jet 200 sounds interesting!

Have you considered how the boat will steer and maneuver at low speeds with the jet?

That's always been one of the chief drawbacks of jets, IMHO.

I'll see ya' in Seattle in january!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Greg, are you sure when you hit the bar that the change in speed/torque didn't just slip your timing belt a notch or two. I'd check that if you already haven't. It'll screw up the compression real fast -- maybe you can get lucky...Digger
 
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