engines for 25

B

BORIS POPOV

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I've ordered a new 25 CDory, and need opinions from other 25' owners as to the optimum hp. I was advised that a 140-150 hp would be ideal, but I see the specs call out a max of 200hp. Since the boat will be in Prince William Sound, AK, weather and distances demand both speed, and fuel efficiency. Interested in what other 25' owners have for input.

Thanks
CBory
 
Congratulations on the NEW CD25!

I took delivery this last Sept and have 2 X 90HP HONDAs, with 4 blade SS 15" pitch props. The economy figures are not in yet. I do a fuel flow system (NAVMAN) just installed and have not cal'd it yet. The weight of the twins does not seem to be a factor and I get the sense that I am getting better mileage than I got from my 135HP Merc on my 18' SeaRay, both at cruise.

The only down side I see with the HONDAs is the electrical. The alternators are rated at only 16amp each, else I love these things.

Have fun and support the economy and buy, buy, buy.

73s
 
There are some new choices available for powering a CD-25 for 2006.

In his monthly column, "Propulsion", in the August, 2005 Trailer Boat Magazine, Jim Barron notes that Bombardier will offer some new E-Tecs for 2006:

"These include the 60-degree 1.7L V-4 at 115 and 130 hp, and the 60-degree, 2.6L V-6 at 150, 175, and 200 hp."

We'll have to wait for the details, but 150-200 hp with the weight of a 130 hp 4-stroke would sound pretty interesting! The E-tec concept is quite enticing!

In the same article, Jim also notes that Suzuki will be offering a new large displacement I-4 four-stroke. These are 2.9L engines which will be available in 150 and 175 hp versions, and check in at 465 lbs. They's test them and report back in a future article.

Just thought I'd offer these notes as a "heads up" for prospective new CD-25 buyers shopping for engines! Joe.
 
Forgot to mention that the same article mentions that Bombardier's Johnson division will be discontinuing the 4-stroke (Suzuki made) 40 hp and larger models for next year, and will instead offer 2 and four stroke engines to 30 hp, and carbureted 2-stroke models to 175 hp. Jim thinks it's clear that Bombardier is placing all its eggs in the E-tec basket, and it just could be that the Johnsons will follow the E-Tec model soon. Joe.
 
Just a note of caution, Powerboat Reports July issue posted an article on a E-Tec powerhead replacement needed on one of their test engines (90hp) after only 100 hours. The engine didn't fail but developed a "rattling noise at idle". They will update the cause in a future issue.
 
Powerboat Reports also said that they used a 'generic' brand of TCW 3 two stroke oil. I think that if the manufacturer makes a special oil and recommends it, then the owner should use that oil. Powerboat Reports may have damaged that motor themselves by their choice of oil.

I have been in the outboard business and have seen what 'cheap' oil can do to a powerhead.
 
Here's my two pesos worth. I live in Juneau and have also boated in the sound so might make a little sense. I've had my CD-25 since early April. I have a Suzuki 140 hp and a Suzuki 15 hp kicker. Had her out tonight and played with the 15 while doing a little trolling. She kicks along at about 5kts on calm water. It works. Not much else to say. I love the 140. It is quiet, smooth and operates flawlessly. On the other hand, I keep wishing for more power. I don't know if I need 200, but I keep wishing for another inch or two of throttle. When the bottom is clean and the water calm I can scoot at close to 30knts by myself, but start adding passengers and she drops to 24 knts max pretty quick. My brother has a 22 and spends a lot of time in PWS. He has two Honda 40's and is always wishing he had a single larger engine with more power and a kicker. He reiterated same last weekend after an especially scary trip through Nervous Narrows where he REALLY wanted more power. When I repower, I will increase HP.
 
If I had it to do over again, I'd mount a 200 hp motor on my 25'.

1. With all the storage on the 25' it is easy to add more weight. Carrying a few large passengers can also 500 to 1000 lbs of people weight. The additional weight can really make the motor lug down and act sluggish.

2. I believe a 200 hp motor would last much longer because it wouldn't have to work so hard. It's a horsepower to weight thing. Also, you'd be running at lower rpm's which would add to longer engine life.

3. There have been times when I was underpowered. In following seas against the current on the Columbia I've had my boat lug down to 8 mph while riding the back of a wave. I didn't have enough power to launch myself up over the wave, so there I stayed, bow up in the air and the stern in the trough of the wave. Horsepower is overated, cubic inches is king.

4. An extra 150 lbs on the stern doesn't seem to make much difference on the 25'.
 
Larry,

Thanks again for all of the help and good advice that you offered us when we were purchasing our 25.

On the topic of engines, we have to keep reminding ourselves that these are Dorys (not a fast hull). The problem that I would have with adding a V-6 engine to the stern is that it changes the posture of the boat in the water. If you look at a C-Dory with 130-150 hp. on the stern, the boot stripe meets the water in the mid section of the boat but is exposed to the bow and stern sections (the curve of the hull design). When you look at a 25 with 2 90's the boot stripe (darker gelcoat color) is at or under the waterline at the stern. In a following sea, I believe the raised stern is an asset in allowing waves to pass under the boat with minimal effect on the stern (a smooth ride).

If I need more power to climb waves then a lower pitch on the prop seems a better answer; power at the expense of speed that I can't use anyway under those conditions.

Other thoughts?
 
Jerry

Seems to me that changing prop pitch is just like robbing Peter to pay Paul. I'd like to be able to cruise comfortably on smooth water at 25 mph (without screaming the motor above 5 grand) and have the extra torque for carrying extra passengers.
After owning a 19' Alumaweld Stryker with a 90 hp that was in fact stern heavy, the c-dory is not even in the same ball park for being stern heavy. Has anyone ever come close to taking water over the stern on a c-dory. I've never heard of it and would like to know about it. I know factories are putting the six cylindar outboards on shorter boats with less beam than c-dory is. The extra weight just doesn't seem like that much of a factor to me. I can always back off the throttle for less horsepower, and I've never heard anyone say they had to much horsepower on their boat.
 
Larry,

You're right in that if you are running in mainly smooth waters, the 25's hull might make 25-30 mph with some degree of comfort. My point was that a following sea will have more opportunity to shove a stern to the side and broach the boat (with a V-6 on the stern).

I forget that many folks are running their 25's in glassy waters and may be more concerned with speed; to which I would argue, get a different hull designed for speed. The C-Dory is not a good high speed boat (30+).

As for pitch of prop, one pitch down raises the RPM by about 400, not a bad trade for increased power. Personally, if I can run 20 knots on Oregon Coast waters I'm a happy guy. Mostly, the ocean dictates a speed of about 15.
 
Jerry

My understanding of a possible broach situation in a c-dory would be caused from to much weight forward, not to much weight on the stern. In following seas we want our weight to the rear.
 
I don't own a 25 nor have I had many chances to ride in one but my perspective from watching them run while cruising beside them is that they seem to ride a little nose heavy. I would think that the bigger motor would actualy make them run more level.
this is only an observation I have made and comented on to several people in the past.
 
I'm guessing that mounting a 200 hp on a 25' would give you about the same horsepower to weight ratio as you would get if you put a 115 hp on a 22'. (ala Red Fox)
 
I agree that the balance of weight in the CD-25 is forward by design and that is my point. Why would anyone want to make it a stern heavy boat! The original 22's were designed for 70 hp two-cycle engines. I powered our 1993 22 Cruiser with a 90 hp Tohatsu to keep weight light in the stern. 200 hp is just plain overkill and could be dangerous on a 25 CD. High speed (30+) in a Dory is just a scary, bone-jarring ride.

Maybe Sawdust or Les can offer more insight on this topic. :D
 
Jerry

The weight of the honda 135-150 hp is 485 lbs. The weight of a honda 200 hp is 600 lbs., and the weight of the yamaha is 583 lbs. We're talking about adding an extra 102-115 lbs here. On a boat the size of the 25', that is nothing. If I were really concerned about adding an extra 100 lbs to the stern, I'd consider the Evinrude 200 hp, It only weighs 31 lbs more than the Honda 135 hp.
I have no desire to crusise at over 30 mph. But at times I do desire sometimes to cruise comfortably at 25 mph on smooth water with extra passengers onboard (without working the heck out of the motor.) I would also expect to get much better engine life out of a 200 hp. as it wouldn't be required to work as hard.
My truck and car have the horsepower to drive in excess of 100 mph, I rarely drive over 60 though.
 
I have made several posts in the past touting that something around 175hp would be perfect for the 25'.

150hp, 130hp work, heck my 115hp (2-stroke) works. But as said above in some situations you could feel more power would be better, Larry makes several the same points I did some time ago.
You can always throttle back with a larger motor but once your tapped out with a smaller motor you got no where to go

For me the big quandary when I repower will not be upping the hp to 175 or 200 but how much weight I want hanging off the transom.
There are some advantages to keeping the stern light (at least for my use) so a single high tech 2-stroke looks to me to be the best compromise. Yamaha HPDI or Evinrude eTec are very good motors and will last as long as the four strokes while saving a 100 pounds or so.

stevej
 
I have seen many engines come and go over the years. Only one stands out in my mind as truly being superior to the rest. Evinrude's E-Tec. Reliability has been excellent, and no maintenance for 3 years is a huge plus. Even winterization can be done if 5 minutes right at the ramp.

Since weight is an issue(It's always an issue!) My choice would be the 200 E-Tec. It's the same (419lbs) 60 degree block as the 150. If you carry the weight, then carry the power to go with it. Run it like you only need 150hp and she'll last for years! Fuel and oil efficiency are needed more than ever and preliminary results are fantastic. All with a fraction of the moving parts of a 4-stroke. We all know what happens if any one of those parts stop moving... They all stop moving!

PS... This is not an ad for Evinrude, even though it sounds like one. I am a big fan of the 140hp Suzy/Johnson also. I have put a couple dozen into service and had great results with that engine also.
 
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