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E-Z Loader Trailer Brakes
- Thread starter journey on
- Start date
An update. I let the fluid off at the master and at the furthest back connection to get the fluid pressure off. Still no spin. I jacked the wheels and tapped to see if I could loosen that way. Nope still 4 stuck wheels. Something wrong in surge actuator land. Will get a tow via a car carrier over to the shop will keep you posted. Spousal unit suggested a new trailer. This one is only 3 years with 18,000 miles so ouch! But maybe a good idea....if I can find a high quality mfg in Canada. Or get one from Les and pay the Canadian inspection sticker price? Will ponder. George
The solution. I couldn't get the trailer to budge, so a local car mover was called to get the trailer 2 blocks to Kal Tire. They got real busy so took a few days to address my problem. Turns out it was the brakes had been adjusted on too hard last service and locked them up. A simple re adjustment and service was done, bearings serviced and re-packed and I'm good to go. No damage to anything They were apologetic they had my trailer for 3 days and would not let me pay anything!!! If you're in BC and need tires , brakes etc you won't go wrong with Kal Tire. They'll get all my business. I was figuring it would be a standard boat unit. ($1,00). Wow.
journey on
New member
George, congratulations. I know there were a lot of push-ups, and false leads, but you got the problem solved. And at a reasonable cost. We all go through problems like that: problem, all kinds of help, despair, amd then a simple logical solution.
You'd never have pulled those drums off, thank goodness the tyre place figured it out. And you've just established one advantage of disc brakes: all the parts are there in front of God and Country, not hidden inside a drum.
BTW, you left a unit off the standard boat unit. Should be $1,000, allowing for inflation.
Boris
You'd never have pulled those drums off, thank goodness the tyre place figured it out. And you've just established one advantage of disc brakes: all the parts are there in front of God and Country, not hidden inside a drum.
BTW, you left a unit off the standard boat unit. Should be $1,000, allowing for inflation.
Boris
I have the 1/4" thick SS rotors from Tie Down Engineering. Had them for 5+ years now. On the last trip to the Delta I noticed a constant pull to the right on my Expedition tow vehicle--which probably translates to one of the "left" trailer brakes or bearings pulling the tongue to the left. We checked all the wheel and hub temperatures as well as grease in the bearing buddys every stop (approx every 2 hrs).
Had a known grease seal problem on the RR wheel before the trip, replaced the seal at the Rio Vista parking area while there. The left rear wheel was skidding as we backed the trailer (empty) over long grass up a slight incline, surge brakes engaging slightly. We pulled that wheel and checked the rotor, it appears to be slightly warped, so I will see if replacement is easier (or mandatory) rather than having it turned. I believe it should be replaced, haven't checked with Tie Down yet on if they'll sell me just the SS rotor w/o the whole wheel assy.
I have a solenoid shutoff valve installed and activated manually through a switch on the dash rather than backup lights. I use this switch for backing up hill (at home) and on long, long downhill runs to avoid burning up my brakes or melting the rotors. I noticed on line that their new rotors have cooling holes like motorcycles have, this might be the ticket.
I'm willing to continue with them, they work very well otherwise. Now if I can just solve my grease seal problems that seem to have a short life span, like 2 yrs as I look back on the maintenance records. Fortunately they're pretty easy to replace. I may have to bite the bullet someday and go with an oil bath system like Boris has, but not sure available for my Pacific trailer, or rather Tie Down wheels/bearings.
Boris, great job on resurrecting your old, rusted rotors! That's exactly what mine looked like when I replaced them with these 1/4" SS rotors, thought mine were trash...!
Had a known grease seal problem on the RR wheel before the trip, replaced the seal at the Rio Vista parking area while there. The left rear wheel was skidding as we backed the trailer (empty) over long grass up a slight incline, surge brakes engaging slightly. We pulled that wheel and checked the rotor, it appears to be slightly warped, so I will see if replacement is easier (or mandatory) rather than having it turned. I believe it should be replaced, haven't checked with Tie Down yet on if they'll sell me just the SS rotor w/o the whole wheel assy.
I have a solenoid shutoff valve installed and activated manually through a switch on the dash rather than backup lights. I use this switch for backing up hill (at home) and on long, long downhill runs to avoid burning up my brakes or melting the rotors. I noticed on line that their new rotors have cooling holes like motorcycles have, this might be the ticket.
I'm willing to continue with them, they work very well otherwise. Now if I can just solve my grease seal problems that seem to have a short life span, like 2 yrs as I look back on the maintenance records. Fortunately they're pretty easy to replace. I may have to bite the bullet someday and go with an oil bath system like Boris has, but not sure available for my Pacific trailer, or rather Tie Down wheels/bearings.
Boris, great job on resurrecting your old, rusted rotors! That's exactly what mine looked like when I replaced them with these 1/4" SS rotors, thought mine were trash...!
Dora~Jean":2mt9tflb said:I have a solenoid shutoff valve installed and activated manually through a switch on the dash rather than backup lights. I use this switch for backing up hill (at home) and on long, long downhill runs to avoid burning up my brakes or melting the rotors.
That seems like a fantastic idea! The one situation in which I worry about my surge brakes is a long/steep downhill run. To avoid an issue I try very hard not to use the brakes on that type of hill (use engine braking instead), but it would be nice to be able to use the tow vehicle brakes a bit and have the choice to not use the trailer brakes.
I imagine it's simple for an "electrical type," but can you describe how you went about wiring the solenoid to the dash switch? I think I might like to do that instead of how I currently have it (the usual way, activated when tow vehicle is in reverse).
Using "engine braking" or applying the tow vehicle brakes is really the same thing to surge brakes on a trailer. The tow vehicle is pushing back on the trailer, thus engaging the surge brakes.
The dash switch is simple, but running the long wire from the dash to the 7-pin trailer connector on my bumper has to be done right so as not to rub or be pinched by moving parts under the chassis. I used a heavy duty, 12 or 14awg wire and used a lot of plastic ties to the frame. Also, the dash switch has a bright red light on it when activated, hot-glued close to my instruments so I'll see it when I glance down. Using it on long down-hill runs is a bit dangerous because if you need to stop quickly for any reason, you must disengage that switch so you'll have your trailer brakes back(!). This move would not be intuitive in an emergency...so I don't recommend it as a permanent solution.
The dash switch is simple, but running the long wire from the dash to the 7-pin trailer connector on my bumper has to be done right so as not to rub or be pinched by moving parts under the chassis. I used a heavy duty, 12 or 14awg wire and used a lot of plastic ties to the frame. Also, the dash switch has a bright red light on it when activated, hot-glued close to my instruments so I'll see it when I glance down. Using it on long down-hill runs is a bit dangerous because if you need to stop quickly for any reason, you must disengage that switch so you'll have your trailer brakes back(!). This move would not be intuitive in an emergency...so I don't recommend it as a permanent solution.
Thanks for the details on your brake switch wire (caveats noted).
Is that really true? When I have used engine braking with my surge-braked rig on a long downhill pass, then pulled over to check on my hubs at the bottom, they are not particularly hot. I imagine (but don't know as I have never done it) that if I actively used my brake pedal (say at the top of a hill, which is where I am careful not to), that *would* engage the trailer brakes, which would then never have a "reason" to disengage (due to gravity/pressure), and that then my hubs (and brakes) *would* be quite hot at the bottom of a long pass.
Is it possible that some actuators are more or less sensitive than others? What I'm saying above is that I've always thought that due to the very gradual nature of my engine braking it is not engaging the surge brakes. Thus the tow vehicle engine braking is doing the work (I will occasionally tap the brake pedal if I have to, but try to do it in such a way that I think the coupler will not "know" that I'm even doing it).
I think I understand that the surge brakes work essentially by the trailer "coming ahead" faster than the vehicle is moving and thus engaging via pressure between the hitch ball and the coupler.
Basically, this has been the one thing I think I would like better about EOH, even though so far I've been fine with the surge brakes. That is that I tend to enter downhill passes at a slower rate due to wanting the "feathering" action that will not engage my surge brakes. I am careful to watch traffic behind me so that I don't mess anyone else up. With EOH I would feel free to enter a downhill pass slightly faster (within reason of course!), because I wouldn't be "not trying" to engage my trailer brakes.
Dora~Jean":15yz7c2d said:Using "engine braking" or applying the tow vehicle brakes is really the same thing to surge brakes on a trailer. The tow vehicle is pushing back on the trailer, thus engaging the surge brakes.
Is that really true? When I have used engine braking with my surge-braked rig on a long downhill pass, then pulled over to check on my hubs at the bottom, they are not particularly hot. I imagine (but don't know as I have never done it) that if I actively used my brake pedal (say at the top of a hill, which is where I am careful not to), that *would* engage the trailer brakes, which would then never have a "reason" to disengage (due to gravity/pressure), and that then my hubs (and brakes) *would* be quite hot at the bottom of a long pass.
Is it possible that some actuators are more or less sensitive than others? What I'm saying above is that I've always thought that due to the very gradual nature of my engine braking it is not engaging the surge brakes. Thus the tow vehicle engine braking is doing the work (I will occasionally tap the brake pedal if I have to, but try to do it in such a way that I think the coupler will not "know" that I'm even doing it).
I think I understand that the surge brakes work essentially by the trailer "coming ahead" faster than the vehicle is moving and thus engaging via pressure between the hitch ball and the coupler.
Basically, this has been the one thing I think I would like better about EOH, even though so far I've been fine with the surge brakes. That is that I tend to enter downhill passes at a slower rate due to wanting the "feathering" action that will not engage my surge brakes. I am careful to watch traffic behind me so that I don't mess anyone else up. With EOH I would feel free to enter a downhill pass slightly faster (within reason of course!), because I wouldn't be "not trying" to engage my trailer brakes.
AstoriaDave
New member
Sunbeam,
The manual for my EZLoader surge brake equipped trailer specifically warned about use of engine braking on steep downhill grades. Like you, I never noticed any overheating when I tried engine braking, short downhill runs. However, the surge brake actuator does not know whether the pushback from the towing vehicle comes from use of its hydraulic brakes or from engine braking. On a very steep downhill shot, I think mine would be activated.
I expect the surge brakes on my trailer are not activated by the low pushback forces I have generated ... and, yes, that is a function of the setup/actuater or whatever you want to call it.
The manual for my EZLoader surge brake equipped trailer specifically warned about use of engine braking on steep downhill grades. Like you, I never noticed any overheating when I tried engine braking, short downhill runs. However, the surge brake actuator does not know whether the pushback from the towing vehicle comes from use of its hydraulic brakes or from engine braking. On a very steep downhill shot, I think mine would be activated.
I expect the surge brakes on my trailer are not activated by the low pushback forces I have generated ... and, yes, that is a function of the setup/actuater or whatever you want to call it.
AstoriaDave":2xpxqvzr said:Sunbeam,
The manual for my EZLoader surge brake equipped trailer specifically warned about use of engine braking on steep downhill grades.
That's interesting. Did they say why they were warning against it? I find that if I understand the base principle, I can then figure out if it applies to me or not. Not that I am immune to physics, but sometimes I find that the caveat doesn't apply to me and/or is written generally for people who don't care to think about specifics. For example, if they are talking about engine or transmission overheating, well then I know whether or not that is happening on my rig because I run a Scangauge and watch it like a hawk (so far engine braking has not influenced engine or transmission temps, and I also haven't arrived at the bottom of a hill with "burning" hubs).
I realize you didn't write the manual... just curious if they said anything more about whey they were telling you not to use engine braking. That goes against most advice I've read.
I am guessing that my engine braking is "subtle" enough that the trailer doesn't come up against the coupler hard enough to engage the surge brakes, although I guess if they are not overheating it's fine either way. If/when the surge brakes seem like too much trouble or a liability, I'll switch to EOH. I actually intended to put on EOH at the start, but the trailer shop had never done it and didn't sound too confident, so I decided to take my first cross-country trip with the surge brakes, and then have the EOH added in Washington, where surely they would have experience with them (thank goodness as I had to re-do everything that shop had done!). After that trip I felt that the surge brakes worked fine (with the aforementioned conservative driving at the tops of long downgrades), so EOH are on the "back burner" for now.
Sunbeam
AstoriaDave
New member
Sunbeam,
The manual explained the warning was there to avoid burning up the brakes, because of constant contact. Exactly the concern we have been discussing. As I said, I have never experienced a problem, using engine braking on downgrades. Never noticed the surge brakes coming on under those circumstances. I believe with my vehicle, trailer, and load, the problem is a nonstarter. Would take much steeper grade and likely locking the tranny into first gear.
The manual explained the warning was there to avoid burning up the brakes, because of constant contact. Exactly the concern we have been discussing. As I said, I have never experienced a problem, using engine braking on downgrades. Never noticed the surge brakes coming on under those circumstances. I believe with my vehicle, trailer, and load, the problem is a nonstarter. Would take much steeper grade and likely locking the tranny into first gear.
Thanks for the additional info. I don't think I've experienced that either, but as you say, I suppose if one engine-braked "dramatically," then it would be no different than applying the service brakes in terms of force on the coupler, and would thus engage the trailer brakes (meanwhile the innocent driver thinking they had not applied the brakes so all was well). Probably you and I are similarly "feathering" things and so not experiencing that.
If I had a 25 (or a lighter-duty tow vehicle), I'd probably go EOH as a matter of course; for now, and with my rig, I'm happy keeping the 22 a bit simpler.
Sunbeam
If I had a 25 (or a lighter-duty tow vehicle), I'd probably go EOH as a matter of course; for now, and with my rig, I'm happy keeping the 22 a bit simpler.
Sunbeam