Dual VHF radios?

M

MikeR

New member
Surely this has come up before but I can't find anything in the archives...

Is anyone simultaneously running two VHFs on their boats? If so, how far apart are your antennas? (I've read they should be at least 10' apart but that's not very practical on a 22' C-dory).

Reason I'm asking, I have a Standard Horizon GX2200 which I LOVE for the AIS feature with built-in GPS, but absolutely cannot stand the sound quality and the un-intuitive menu navigation.

I have looked at replacing it with the more expensive Icom M506 but after reading the entire user manual and reading some other reviews I don't think I'd be any happier with the Icom. What I'd like to do is just run one VHF as a dedicated AIS and DSC communications, and have another basic VHF simply for monitoring the airwaves (16, 22, 5A, etc), which is 99.9% of my use. By comparison the '90s era Uniden on my 16 has absolutely wonderful sound quality and is super simple to use, so was thinking something like that could be mounted up as a second VHF then I'd also have some redundancy and extra flexibility with 2 VHFs and antenna. I do have a handheld VHF which works OK, but I'd rather keep that for emergency and dinghy use.

So is anyone else running 2 VHF's and/or a VHF and dedicated AIS on separate antenna? My current VHF antenna is mounted next to the helm on the Starboard side...would a second 8 footer mounted in the same position on the Port side be asking for trouble?

Thanks,
Mike
 
If you current SH radio is sounding bad, I would recommend you test/redo your antenna connection. A less than perfect connection from radio to coax, or coax to antenna is likely to blame for poor sound. Get that solved before moving forward with other equipment.

Two active 25w radios sharing a small roof with independent antennas could be tricky and can affect range, sound quality, and even cause damage to the radios although I have never proven that.

If I had to do it and space was limited, I would stack them vertically with a 3ft whip mounted to the roof (listening radio) and another 3ft whip or taller unit mounted atop a 3+ft extension (calling radio) to put the base above the tip of the 3footer. The spacing would not be quite as important in that configuration but it still wouldn't hurt.

Or just get a simple handheld and mount it somewhere inside the boat for local listening connected to 12v power all the time and keep another portable handy for emergency use if that puts you more at ease.

We nearly trashed a radio for bad sound but a geeky radio friend used a fancy test unit to prove our antenna connection was terrible. After re-soldering the connection, it sounded like a whole new radio. This is common in boats.

Greg
 
I'm running two VHF's and an AIS transmitter on 2 antennas. One of the radios also has an AIS receiver and DSC. It is on it's own dedicated antenna, an 8' fiberglass pole. The other, older VHF (non DSC or AIS) shares another 8' antenna thru a splitter (that also outputs AM/FM). The second radio initially used a 4' SS whip, but I decided to replace it with another 8' Fiberglass pole when I added the AIS transmitter. The older radio has never put out as well as my newer radio, but then I tend to only use it in close range anyway. My antennas are maybe about 4 ft apart, as they are mounted on the sides of the "high top" roof. You can probably make out their locations on some of the photos in my photo album. Most the stuff I have read said to have 3' separation on the antennas. Colby

Late note. Ok, I just looked. Guess I don't have any photos of the newer antenna setup. But here is one with the two antennas when I had the 4' SS whip. The new 8' antenna that replaced it, is actually mounted directly to the side of the "high top" roof, as is the one on the other side.

DSCF0001.jpg
 
Mike, Yes, I run more than one VHF on separate antennas. More on that later.

You have good taste in radio choices. Standard Horizon GX2200 is a great VHF, and for the reasons you love it. The menu is somewhat cumbersome, you are right there too, but you can get used to it if/when/as you use it more and more. The sound should be usable. Remember it is not a Bose stereo :lol: but it is certainly usable. Greg's comment about having a good antenna connection is good advice.

The speaker is mounted on the front of that unit. Is that pointing towards where you are when you are using the radio, as in head high, and towards you? It is not a big speaker. There are accessory speakers, that are less expensive that a new ICOM M-506, that could get the sound closer to your ears. (BUT, an accessory speaker will never measure up to the M-506 in VHF function.)

I would highly recommend the ICOM M-506 has AIS receive and that could give you some duplicity and redundancy -- A good thing. PLUS, the M-506 will give you "Last Call 12 Minute Recording" something nobody else on the market has. (Use that radio for your AIS, DSC and monitoring 16 to take full advantage of the recording feature.)

I actually have 3 VHF's all running simultaneously and 3 separate VHF antennas (antennae maybe?). They are mounted with 4 feet between, and just barely. 2 are forward just outside of the hand rails, and 1 port side, outside of the hand rail and just at the spacing between the aft side window, and exactly 4 feet aft of the port side antenna.

The RayMarine 218 radio shares a Vesper Marine splitter with the Watchmate Vision Active AIS.
The ICOM M-506 is used almost exclusively for monitoring VHF16, and provides AIS output to the plotter.
The Standard Horizon GX-2150 provides redundant AIS to the plotter and DSC service.
All three VHF's are mounted under the overhead shelf board, just above eye level, tilted down slightly, and crowded to the starboard side for easy reach.

I could have gotten by with 2 VHFs IF the Standard horizon had been available when I decided to upgrade my comm system. I pulled a cheapy RayMarine (54) out and put in the 218, then Standard Horizon came out with the AIS receive in the 2150. I added that for AIS receive capability. A couple years later ICOM brought out the M-506 with the 2 minute last call recording feature and since my memory and my note taking capability is not as fast as some folks can talk when excited, I added it to the rack. I have not been disappointed.

I have an 8ft glass Commrod antenna port forward, a 4 ft Shakespeare Stainless whip on a 24" extension starboard forward, and a 4ft Shakespeare SS whip port side aft. This arrangement was set up in conjunction with consultation and installation by Roger's Marine in Portland, and has functioned perfectly over the last to full seasons.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

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Yes. I run dual fixed mount VHF radios on my tomcat. Both are Standard Horizon radios and both are AIS receivers. One is a GX2200 and I believe the other is a 2150. The 2200 has it's own GPS, the other doesn't. I run two 8' Digital brand antenna's - one on either side near each forward corner of the cabin roof. One is wired to the primary fixed mount chart plotter, and the other is wired to the other fixed mount chart plotter. Either radio can fail and I still have AIS displayed on chart plotter. I usually have one radio set to scan and one (the one closest to the helm) fixed on channel 16. I've had no problems with reception or damage to the radios and the antennas are maybe 5 - 6' apart.
 
Thanks for the responses, this is all great info! (and keep them coming, it's fun hearing about everyone's setups!)

Greg- good point on the antenna / connection - that was my first thought and will investigate that further, and will try re-soldering a new PL-259 connection to see if that changes anything.. A friend recently installed the same radio on his 27' sailboat and his antenna is professionally installed on top of his mast and his radio sounds the same as mine, but maybe he has other issues related to the antenna like too long of coax or something.

Harvey, my radio is mounted under the overhead shelf, in between the center window and starboard window, pointing directly at me, and the mic (which is also a second speaker) is mounted even closer to me, so it's in a great position to hear it.

Basically I find the static noise to be especially unpleasant, it just seems like the treble is way too loud and high-pitched. By comparison my old uniden, which is physically smaller in every regard including the speaker, has a nice soft low-pitched static sound when someone is just on the limits of being within range. It does seem to have good range, I hear traffic from boats in Port Angeles, Vancouver, and Seattle, but wouldn't surprise me if still there is a problem with the antenna somehow, which is a lower-end Shakespere. I think maybe I'll bring the GX-2200 home and run it on the 16 to see if it sounds the same - since I don't seem to have any problems with the old radio currently on it. Otherwise I love the functionality of the GX2200, the AIS and GPS work great, and as Harvey pointed out, I am even starting to get the hang of navigating the menu.

I would like to make the GX2200 a radio I love, so will keep investigating the connections/antennas to see if it improves the sound quality. But regardless, now I'm even more interested in exploring some of these setups you have all suggested, either a second fixed mount or a mounted portable.

Thanks again and keep the ideas coming!

-Mike
 
Mike, You mentioned the VHF mic as a speaker. I forgot. I use that feature on the SH GX-2150 quite often; it's quicker that turning up the volume. As to the static, I was going to mention that it goes away when you turn up the squelch, but it sounds like you are doing that. Even marginal transmissions should transmit the audio clearly, squelching out the background unless they are way out there.

It might be worth having your antenna tested as well as making sure those connections are perfect.

Enjoy the 2250, but if you do add the ICOM M-506 you will find a super easy menu, and a quality radio.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

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I'm running two VHF's but one of them is a handheld. I added and wired a 2nd Shakespeare 8 footer but I decided not to buy another fixed mount VHF because I still had my old portable one from my 16 angler days!

I'll continue using this setup in 2017. But I'm glad that I at least have the 2nd antenna ready to receive a new radio if need be. A dual radio setup is important for me because I'm out alone on the water a lot and feel safer having them. I also have two cell phones. One of them is my work phone. Lol. Im also in the process of researching a decent EPIRB.
 
I also run two fixed VHF, and at least one portable--as necessary, with a second portable, with AA battery tray extra in the ditch bag.

My two 36" whips on 2 foot SS bases, are about 5 feet apart. I do test and tune my radios for resonance on the frequency and SWR. (Have ham test gear).

The only photo I have is of the VHF antenna in the "down" position:

DSC00825.sized.jpg

The other side is exactly the same. One might say that it would be better to have a 8 foot antenna, and they would be correct--slightly better gain, and height, to give about a mile range. What I trade off for is an antenna which does not get broken, does not detiorrate from the Sunlight., and I can tune (base coil and whip.

Because of these factors, I feel that my range, will be within one mile of any other other boats.

Reason for more than one antenna, even one with dual, triple watch or scan (which all of my radios have)--is that there are times when you may have a distress or urgent call, which would be missed if you were transmitting on the only radio.

Yes, the antenna connection is critical--and probably the most common mistake made. Corrosion, crimp on, vs soldered connections, poor connection, etc.
 
My antennae are mounted the same as Bobs. When trailering I wrap the whip end top with a velcro strap and secure it to the hand rail, to keep it from banging on the cabin top. I do that with both of the SS whips, and I also secure the 8 ft fiberglass one by snugging it down against the cabin top.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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With my dual 8' antennas mounted on the forward part of the roof, I just lay them back against the rest of the roof with a little bit of tension so that they can not bounce around, when trailering. Of course when getting on and off the boat with them in this position, I need to remember to duck. :shock: When I trailer with the cover on, I lay them down forward and velcro or zip tie them to the bow rail. (Due to how my cover lays across the cockpit, laying the antennas back with the cover putting weight on them would more than likely break them. Also, when covered and laying forward, I have the heavier schedule PVC also placed over them for just a little more support. The cover does come across them, but with support as it comes off the roof brow by two cover poles, and then the bow rail, it's not a problem. Colby
 
We have two radios and two antennae. One radio has AIS and is connected to the Garmin. Both antennae are mounted on the factory radar arch that came with the boat and are definitely not 10' apart. Both work. Dr Bob did a good write up with photos on properly soldering a connector. I followed it, as I'd never done it prior. I'd love to get them both "tested" but I have no idea how to do that nor who....
 
We have an 8 ft and 4 ft VHF ant port/std 5 ft apart connected to a Garmin VHF 200 and Garmin AIS 600 (tx and rc) with a splitter on the AIS which allows using either one or both ant or the 2 independently. The new AIS did not get along at all with the 4ft (installed by PO in 2011) showing an ERROR led when trying to transmit; and darned if it wasn't right...that ant would receive fine but not transmit at all, as we found when entering Stock Island Marina Village at Key West. We also keep a waterproof handheld Std Hor DSC w GPS on the charger and on 16 'lo power' at the helm. For our purposes (seldom out of sight of land) this is fine. Today got the Digital 4 ft replacement (made in USA, I like their stuff but not enough to replace a working ant).
In the past 15-20 yrs of having 2 VHF ant with AIS transmitting on 1 and radio on the other on opposite sides of trailer boats I've never had a problem tho I highly respect Greg's opinion. I think the ant failure is old age/tough life. Base modern VHF radios are so reliable I don't feel the need for 2 (tho respect Roger's setup). Kind of like modern outboard motors.
That said, at Key West we launch at Garrison Bight ramp (best for a TC255) then have to drive clear around Key West to get to our marina with my brother and his wife (non-boaters). There was a fair amount of floating sea-grass and halfway there the port engine alarm went off, followed by the std eng alarm less than 5 seconds later. We turned into the wind, shut down and raised the drives, which were clean. Put 'em back down and proceeded with no issue.
Lesson, if you haven't already learned it the hard way... the #1 most common outboard engine alarm is an overheat from a Walmart bag or whatever wrapping around the water intakes of the outboard lower leg at cruise. When you stop, it drops off, and when you raise the drive, there is nothing to see.
Happy Boating!
John
 
Well, the question I have is: how do you control feedback? If one radio is transmitting and the other is scanning, wouldn't the second one lock on the transmitting frequency and give positive feedback? How do you control the squeal when both radios are on and one transmits? How do you not receive on the same channel as you transmit? That seems difficult.

BTW, the 10' is probably at the end of the near field for the antennas. Just a guess.

Boris
 
Doesn't seem to be a problem for me. I think I've had a few instances where my scanning radio picked up my transmission from my other radio, and if I do get any feedback, I just reset it to a different single freq. Most the time I leave one radio in scan, while the other is set to a hard freq, such as 16, or a working freq. Colby
 
I don't run the two radios on the same frequencies. For example one will be 16. The other may scan traffic scheme/working frequency of tugs, or 68 etc.
 
I don't run my radios on the same freq either. I have 3 VHF and each one is used for a certain channel. I have at times used my handheld in scan mode, but only for listening, and then turn it off after I find the channel I want and then I would call on that channel from my SH. My Standard Horizon is the one directly in front and overhead, I use it for most conversations and it is the one I change channels on most often. If I get a call on 16 I use the ICOM to respond and ask for a switch to different working channel. (The ICOM because it is monitoring 16 for the recording feature.)

For me, using a single radio on scan seems to be to likely to miss something, ie sticking on a conversation between a couple of fishing buddies, and you could miss a Mayday call on 16.

There is also a CG requirement that if you have a VHF radio on board, it is to be on and monitoring channel 16.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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We now always monitor 16. I learned this from not doing it or watching others who obviously were not. Once we were running the Everett channel, outbound and the CG cutter Blue Shark was inbound. Ended up they were trying to enter the marina to fuel up. I watched numerous "pleasure craft" make their maneuvering a living hell, when all they had to to was call the boat and ask. We did and they requested we hold our position so they could maneuver in. We complied. Common sense. Now.
 
hardee":tp2gawch said:
For me, using a single radio on scan seems to be to likely to miss something, ie sticking on a conversation between a couple of fishing buddies, and you could miss a Mayday call on 16.

There is also a CG requirement that if you have a VHF radio on board, it is to be on and monitoring channel 16.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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Click to expand...

As I understand the "priority scanning" function, if you set channel 16 as a priority channel, you will absolutely never miss a call on channel 16. Even if it is somehow possible, I think the possibility is a theoretical rather than practical one. I've only used one radio, with channel 16 as a priority channel. I don't think I have ever missed a channel 16 call that was within range of my radio. Again, I'm just not sure it's even a theoretical possibility.
 
Saxe Point":2sa23k5m said:
As I understand the "priority scanning" function, if you set channel 16 as a priority channel, you will absolutely never miss a call on channel 16. Even if it is somehow possible, I think the possibility is a theoretical rather than practical one. I've only used one radio, with channel 16 as a priority channel. I don't think I have ever missed a channel 16 call that was within range of my radio. Again, I'm just not sure it's even a theoretical possibility.
Click to expand...

An example: A narrow stretch of the ICW is called "The Rock pile" Any vessel which is entering this stretch should give a "security" call on Channel 16 and Channel 13. (Channel 13 is the commercial traffic--tug to tug channel for the ICW--other areas will have different traffic scheme traffic. There are many areas like this.

I was Southbound, had a single radio, and called "security" on Channel 16, and then on 13. Exactly at the same time, a tug and tow, was North bound, and they gave a 'Security" on 13 and 16--at the same time I was transmitting. Thus neither of us knew that there was opposing traffic. If I had a second radio, I could have avoided, having to back a 62 foot ketch a few hundred yards, and then put her up against the bank, as the tug and tow went by on a slow bell--with a couple of feet clearance between the barge and my vessel.

There are many other instances, where you may be on the radio; for example on 68 talking to a friend--and there is a "mayday" on 16. You will miss that.

Even if you were just monitoring--with priority 16, you may have missed a key part of the transmission by the time the radio dropped the call it was on, and moved to 16.
 
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