Can't stop hydraulic steering from leaking

S

SEA3PO

New member
What a MESS... We discovered it several months ago... that the shaft seal on our BayStar helm had worn out and was leaking...and had oil soaked my side of the cushions in the V berth.....

So I went to West Marine and ordered a new set of seals...but the first set were for the late model helms and mine (2003) was the "old" style and they did not interchange...... so they got a set of seals for my style helm and it went together just fine.... but leaks.... not a little but almost runs out ....I think it is coming from not the shaft part of the seal but from around the edge of the white plastic seal holder... there is a small O ring between the housing and the seal holder but that does not appear to be doing much....

Anyone else have this problem ? I wonder if I should just buy a whole new helm unit...I sure don't want this to happen when I am on the water....

Thanks

Joel
SEA3PO
Camarillo Ca.
 
Ugh! I'm sorry you are dealing with that. But I'm also really interested to find out more and read what people have to say, because I have cable steering and will likely be going to hydraulic sooner rather than later. Debating between Baystar and Seastar, etc.

What a relief it will be to get that solved - I hope you get some good info here.
 
My helm pump is the "old" style so they must have had so many problems with it that they changed the method of sealing the shaft....
My new shaft seal looks to be working fine...the leak is coming from the edges of the white plastic seal holder...

Probably not a problem with any of the new helms

SEA3PO
 
I would upgrade to Sea Star. If I was switching to hydraulic I would install Sea Star. A little more robust I think it's money well spent.
D.D.
 
Joel,
I would not give even a nickel for the Bay Star unit. I have owned several and have installed many on other folks boats over time and almost all of them had seal failure within a few years. I still have spare seals in my tool box in case of any friends that need help in the future.
Not what you want to hear, but that is fact.
I have had better luck with Sea Star units, though I have had seal failures with them and have had no failures of the Ultrflex helms.
 
Will-C":2w753lzh said:
I would upgrade to Sea Star. If I was switching to hydraulic I would install Sea Star. A little more robust I think it's money well spent.
Click to expand...

I can't remember the specifics, but I remember reading something that (I think it was) Les Lampman preferred about the Baystar. I wish I could remember/understood what it was. I think it was something about the ram moves vs. something else moving in the splashwell, which was more compact/tidy in a small boat (?) Maybe someone else knows what I'm thinking of.

On the other hand, the tilt wheel of Seastar looks appealing, and I don't see that as available with Baystar (although there are various inset type things one can use with it).

Cable gave me just a bit too much of a workout last fall, and I'm not super fond of the Sportpilot autopilot, so I'm thinking hydraulic steering and new autopilot sometime in the near future. Anyway, back to SEA3PO's thread and solving the leak in his steering system...
 
I MAY have found the problem..... I actually have it stopped for the moment...but will not be thrilled until it has not leaked for a day or two....

What I found was the secondary seal....a thin "O"ring that goes under the white plastic shaft seal holder was of a slightly different size that the original I took off the pump.... the seal kit came from West Marine in a SEA STAR Seal repair kit .....the exact part number it called for....and while the shaft seal and shaft seal holder are fine....just that O ring is about .010" smaller. (dirty bastards)

I filled er up again... and hopefully it will hold, I am not exactly thrilled with their shaft seal design but nothing I can do about that....if it still leaks I think I will use permatex 1 (hardening) and make it solid

Joel
SEA3PO
 
Sorry to hear about the mess Joel. I'm using the Sea Star with tilt as the Baystar I think proved just a bit light in constant use so I doubt many c dory's have them after about '08. The Sea Star is some robust unit. I like the tilt for different drivers comfort.
Hope you got it now.
George
 
thataway":3q0u6kw8 said:
I have a Baystar with my 18' cat with 140 hp and a Sea Star on the C Dory 22 with 90 hp--much prefer the Sea Star...
Click to expand...

Bob (or anyone else): Would you mind elaborating on why/what you prefer about the Sea Star? I have not purchased either yet, so I'm all ears. Here are the only thoughts I have so far (which may not even all be correct):

1) The Baystar is rated adequately for for the 22.

2) There may be something "tidier" about the Baystar vis-a-vis what moves or does not move in the splashwell, but I don't really know what it is (vaguely remembered comment by Les at EQ).

3) The Baystar lines are easier for a DIY-er to cut to length? (Maybe?)

4) The Sea Star is certainly more than adequate.

5) The Sea Star can be had with tilt wheel (the Baystar cannot).

I wish I could remember the details of #2!; and/or whether #3 is really a "thing."
 
I see that there are different ratios...... 1.7, 2.0,2.4 I assume that that is volume of output... mine is the 1.7 Does that mean that it is a lower ratio so it will turn the steering easier but take more turns to go lock to lock....it would seem a higher ratio pump would take more effort at the wheel to turn the motors.

I just looked at my BayStar pump and it has a ratio of 1.6

12 hours and no leaks so far, but I just don't know if I can trust it after having such a hard time stopping the leaks.

SEA3PO
 
Sunbeam":1auku6ye said:
(Edited)

2) There may be something "tidier" about the Baystar vis-a-vis what moves or does not move in the splashwell, but I don't really know what it is (vaguely remembered comment by Les at EQ).


I wish I could remember the details of #2!; and/or whether #3 is really a "thing."
Click to expand...

Sunbeam- Read this and then look at diagrams of the BayStar and SeaStar systems to fully visualize the systems.

(I'm doing this out of my head/memory w/o diagrams.)

The differences in the motor control slave cylinders are these:

The Bay star has a cylinder that is firmly bolted to the motor (and not the motor mount clamp below). A piston is in the center of this cylinder. Hydraulic fluid enters both sides of the cylinder from the end. As fluid enters one side, it leaves the other. The piston is connected by rods through both ends of the cylinder and out around to the motor mount below where they are firmly anchored. The rods and piston stay centered in the boat, while fluid movement into and out of the cylinder cause the cylinder and then the attached motor to move back and forth, steering the boat.

In the SeaStar system, the anchoring and movement are reversed. The cylinder is mounted firmly to the motor mount below, external to the engine. Fluid moves into and out of the respective ends of the cylinder. The piston is in the center, and connected to rods that exit both ends of the cylinder. The rods are then connected to the center of the engine. Fluid movement moves the piston, then the rods, and then the engine, and steering is accomplished. The difference here is that the cylinder is fixed (anchored), and the rods steer the engine. Alternately, in the BayStar system, the rods and pistons are fixed, and the cylinder, which is fixed or anchored to the engine, moves, moving the engine.

What Les probably likes/prefers about the BayStar system is that it is more compact, and interfers less with the placement of other things, like the kicker, other controls, access to the swim step, etc.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it! :lol:

On edit: I had to change a few things here, both to make it clearer and more accurate!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Sea Wolf":1ufljmie said:
What Les probably likes/prefers about the BayStar system is that it is more compact, and interfers less with the placement of other things, like the kicker, other controls, access to the swim step, etc.
Click to expand...

That sounds about right, thanks. It also sounds like a good reason to like the Baystar, presuming either will work. I guess I'll have to look for some photos of 22's with the Sea Star to see if it would look too crowded with the system in action. Seems like the tilt wheel on the Sea Star might be nice, but in a way it would be more just to have options for where to put the wheel initially (at least for me, that's how I use it in my car vs. tilting it on a regular basis). And for all I know, the Baystar would be on a fine angle even without tilt.

Makes it hard to choose without trying them both!
 
I think the helm is the same size on the Bay Star and the Sea Star .... The tilt feature is only available on the Sea Star.

From what I am gathering the Bay Star is lighter duty than the Sea Star...there is also a Sea Star Pro which looks like it is heavier duty than the standard Sea Star...it has roller bearings.,

What I did was put my steering together from separately purchased parts....I had my hydraulic lines made up at a hydraulic hose shop. I did not like paying $28 a quart for fluid so I am using synthetic power steering fluid (clear) for $6 a quart. (not transmission fluid)

Joel
SEA3PO
 
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