C-Series vs E-Series vs Garmin + Autopilot....

C

Captains Cat

New member
I had almost made up my mind on a Garmin Radar and Display for Captain's Cat when I went to Boat Show (SBS08). The show didn't really change my mind but when I won the Raymarine hat at the Factory Party it pushed me over the top. (Who says marketing doesn't work!)

Actually, the ability to overlay the radar on top of the chart for verification and the MARPA features did it.

Now, the details.

I don't need the extensive network so it would seem that the C-Series would do me fine. I think the display is brighter on the E-Series, is it worth that? Also, the ability to display the Platinum vs. the Gold Navionics Charts is on the E but not the C. There's a thread on this elsewhere.

I plan to put it on a short mount, not an arch, probably use the 5" or 10-12". I've got limited room under my boathouse roof and don't want to get too high when it's up on the lift.

Then there's size of the display. Do you folks with the 12" really use all that size? Does it get in the way? Is it mounted on the dash or hung from the overhead? How about the 8"?? I'll be using it on the TC255. I've got a Garmin 545 with depth sounder which will be backup. I plan to get the GPS and the Depth Module with the Raytheon unit.

How about Radar "power"? 2Kw VS 4Kw? I'd really like to get the open array but just for looks and that would be a waste of $$. So I'll go with a dome. One website sells the radar unit without a cable and then sells a 5M. cable separately with a right angle connector on it. I really would hate to coil up the unused 10M of cable on that shelf or elsewhere as I did on CAPTAIN's CHOICE. How about the shorter cable? If I mount the unit towards the front of the pilothouse top, 5M should be plenty!

Thanks for any/all input...

Charlie
 
I have been using a C-80 with a 2KW radar in a dome for the last two years and have been satisfied with both. The Raymarine manuals are not good at all, hence the thread "secrets of Raymarine". The only thing I have looked at as desirable in the 120/platinum series is the 3D subsurface capability. It sure would be nice to have that view of the bottom. But that is not enough to spend the extra money. A larger screen would occasionally be nice when you display split screens, i.e. overlay on one part, depth finder on another, data on a third, radar on another, etc.
 
For those buying a new raymarine system, the raymarine rep at SBS told me that it's a good idea to download the most current version. This is mainly because they can't guarantee how long a system has been sitting on a shelf before being sold.

Tim
 
I have the c-80 with radar and auto pilot and its ok but I think that there are better products out there now. The redraw time on mine drives susan crazy. its not fast enough for her, but works fine for me because I dont expect it to be instant. the new furno is instant just like goole earth with no redraw just instant scroll and zoom. One of the draw backs of the raymarine is the auto pilot. It is not good enough for a fisherman like me. Its great for the price but does not hit waypoint very well at slow speeds and is happy if its with in 100 yard of one. I will be happy if it is within 10 ft of one. Garmen just bought out TR-1 auto pilots and is going to improve it and make it part of there system which should bring down the price. The gold system was just for kickers and the platuim system was for main motors. I have been told the new system will do both with the flip of a switch. the tr-1 will troll in reverse and control your kickers throttle. I have also been told that it will depth follow, like the furno system. It will follow what ever depth you set it for. this is great for trolling for black mouth and other fish. So if you are going to fish take a look at it. if you are just looking to cruise then the raymarine is a great system. Also the new garmen is touch screen which allows for more menu items and choices. Take a look at all of them. I go to west marine and play with the buttons at lunch.
 
tim, make that a link instead of that long thing. use Url=http etc. just put your cursor on the url when posting and it will show you what to do.
 
Captains Cat":3tfqjoex said:
I had almost made up my mind on a Garmin Radar and Display for Captain's Cat when I went to Boat Show (SBS08). The show didn't really change my mind but when I won the Raymarine hat at the Factory Party it pushed me over the top. (Who says marketing doesn't work!)

Actually, the ability to overlay the radar on top of the chart for verification and the MARPA features did it.

Now, the details.

I don't need the extensive network so it would seem that the C-Series would do me fine. I think the display is brighter on the E-Series, is it worth that? Also, the ability to display the Platinum vs. the Gold Navionics Charts is on the E but not the C. There's a thread on this elsewhere.

I plan to put it on a short mount, not an arch, probably use the 5" or 10-12". I've got limited room under my boathouse roof and don't want to get too high when it's up on the lift.

Then there's size of the display. Do you folks with the 12" really use all that size? Does it get in the way? Is it mounted on the dash or hung from the overhead? How about the 8"?? I'll be using it on the TC255. I've got a Garmin 545 with depth sounder which will be backup. I plan to get the GPS and the Depth Module with the Raytheon unit.

How about Radar "power"? 2Kw VS 4Kw? I'd really like to get the open array but just for looks and that would be a waste of $$. So I'll go with a dome. One website sells the radar unit without a cable and then sells a 5M. cable separately with a right angle connector on it. I really would hate to coil up the unused 10M of cable on that shelf or elsewhere as I did on CAPTAIN's CHOICE. How about the shorter cable? If I mount the unit towards the front of the pilothouse top, 5M should be plenty!

Thanks for any/all input...

Charlie
Click to expand...

Hi Charlie,

Well...here goes! :)

I keep choosing Raymarine as our recommended system because they keep pushing the system forward giving consumers the biggest bang for the buck. They're only paying attention to the private boat/yacht sector and are optimizing their products for that market. Would I install other systems? In a heartbeat. That's up to the person writing the check and they're all good but in every other system I've tried to put together it either costs more or loses functionality. They're the only one that I'm aware of at the moment that have plug-n-play AIS and MOB (man-overboard) solutions.

The C-Series would work fine. Would I choose to spend the extra money and get the E-series...yes. Why? Because it has a separate video co-processor and redraws the screen much faster, because the screen is brighter and easier to see, and because it has more potential for future upgrades.

I would stick with the 80 size and not go to the 120 just due to space limitations and I would never ever mount a main nav unit overhead; with radar overlay, depth information, AIS information, weather information, and such available you're just using it way too much (ah yes, for navigation too!); an overhead mount is literally a pain in the neck. You would like the 120 better and yes, the extra screen space is nice, but it just won't fit as well and the 8.4" screen is sufficient.

The C-80 can also utilize the Platinum chart chips but...

C-Series Platinum support consists of 2D Navigation Charts, Panoramic Photos, Cruising Guide Data, expanded Ports and Services only. 3D charting and aerial photo overlays are not accessible from C-Series displays.

That's probably not what most folks choose the unit for specifically. The C-series just doesn't have the horsepower necessary to run the additional features.

The C-series is much slower to redraw than the E-series; which is primarily what you're paying for in the E-Series along with the brighter screen. You can't expect the C-series to do it as well; if so how could they sell it for less money.

One other item of note...if you have a desire (ever) to utilize a laptop computer in the system you'll want to have the E-series. An enthernet cable between it and and Raymarine network hub will allow the laptop to act as a full second unit if it has the RayTech software installed. The C-sereis can't do this as it's a single station standalone unit.

The power of the radome isn't even a question for your boat and your area...go with the 4KW set...you'll never regret the slightly higher price. The 5M cable would work well.

Install the AIS250 module...you'll be VERY happy with it. I know it costs some bucks but the information (as the commercial says) is priceless in high traffic areas (especially at night and in inclement weather and fog). It's totally passive and is the one traffic warning system onboard that does not rely on operator skill to function at its best. Once you see it actually work and realize you know where the big boys are you'll feel naked without it.

If you choose the E-80 (or C-80 for that matter) I can tell you where some of the better mounting positions are...at least the ones we've found! :)
 
Charlie, Nice meeting you at the SBS. We use an E-80 with 4kw Radome. The E-80 is the largest you can put on the TC helm without it entering into your view of the water. E-120 would be nice though.

If you get down into the bunk area and look at the back of the helm, there is an unused space to the Stbd. side between the helm and the hull. Any extra Radar cable will store there when rolled up. Best to not try shortening the cable.

We are happy with the Raymarine system and use it for depth, radar and charting with Navionics Platinum. It does take a while to find all it's features and put them to use. Barry's thread on the Secrets of Raymarine helped a lot.

With the E-80, you can add a second station or just a monitor as we did. See Dreamer Album.

All the best,
 
starcrafttom":1wubt1qh said:
tim, make that a link instead of that long thing. use Url=http etc. just put your cursor on the url when posting and it will show you what to do.
Click to expand...

Tom - I will second your suggestion. These posts that you have to continually scroll sideways to read are difficult to follow. I wish Bill would do something to limit the horizontal width of the windows.

Many of us just quit following the wide threads because of this.
________
Dave dlt.gif
 
Captains Cat":qbapmauo said:
Is it mounted on the dash or hung from the overhead? Charlie
Click to expand...

Hi Charlie, nice to see you at the CBC/SBS! I would suggest mounting the unit on the dash in front of the steering wheel. That location is the easiest to place to view it from, since it is the piece of electronics that you'lll probably be viewing the most. If you are like me and wear bifocals it is a real PIA to view anything hanging from the shelf above. When I'm cruising, I use the radar overlay function as a "rear view mirror" as I can see vessels closing in on me from behind.
 
DaveS":22yqy2x3 said:
[If you are like me and wear bifocals it is a real PIA to view anything hanging from the shelf above.
Click to expand...

I learned this the hard way. I had Les move the E-80 to a gimbal mount (? not sure if that is the right term -- mount that swivels 360o) situated between the center and stbd windshields. After long conversations with John on Tom-A-Hawk I bought a 2nd E-80 cheap on eBay and had Les put that on a 2nd gimbal mount between the center and the port windshields. I also had a 3rd mount installed by the aft helm so that I could move this new E-80 back and forth (again, an idea from John.)

If I hadn't bought the 2nd E-80 I would still have moved it down for the reasons that Dave and others describe.
 
starcrafttom":2caavxdl said:
tim, make that a link instead of that long thing. use Url=http etc. just put your cursor on the url when posting and it will show you what to do.
Click to expand...

Yes, Tim, please do that. My screen is as wide as a E-180 and I've only got an E-80 Laptop!

Wow, what great responses. Looking on E-Bay now, there are some good buys there and I've bought expensive electronics before with no problems to date.

The E-80 sounds like the best bet for me with the 4KW dome. Les made some very good points (we missed you and your dad at SBS!!!) and I'll look into those. I would like to know the addtional mounting locations you've found for the E-80 on a TC255!!

Gotta get that order in soon, have to install that and an AC unit before the Langford get together in June and have a house to build in my spare time!

Keep the recommendations coming, they are very helpful.

Charlie
 
Thanks for the suggestions on the url links. Geez, I was wondering why the heck this thread had become so wide - no idea it was cuz of my post. Sorry. Is there a way for me to delete a post? If not, maybe an admin can do it...

thanks,
Tim
 
A few comments which may slightly differ from above. Do NOT buy a RayMarine unit on E bay--there is a very lengthy thread on The Hull Truth and it is very clear that RayMarine will not honor warantee on any item bought on E-bay, unless it is an authorized dealer!

I personally prefer Furuno for Radar--I have also owned Raytheon--and it was good at the time. But many use RayMarine. I have my radar mounted above the helm, and since the radar is not an overlay nor used often, I find that it works better there. It gives more space on the dash for the other separate electronics--but if you have space for the 8.4" then go for it on the dash.

Garmin is not known for their radar, although I have heard good things about the latest "digital" units. Generally Garmin units are easy to use--probably the easiest.

AIS--a definate thing to buy, but I would wait on that because type "B" which is a transciever, is not yet approved by FCC. It will show your position as well as show you to the other boats which have AIS recievers. When the Class B is approved, then buy a transciever.

2Kw vs 4 Kw--I have heard the arguements. But I have used 2Kw units for over 25 years (mostly in much larger boats and in some of the worlds worse conditions) and never felt that I needed more power. In reality you will be mostly at the 3 mile range. But if it is only a couple of bucks then go for the 4 Kw--it may help you slightly in rain.

Before buying any electronics, I would read the archives on the Electronics section of "The Hull Truth"--you get the views of thousands of folks there and what the experiences have been in many types of contions.

I don't think that you will find much in your area which will be any better on the Platinum vs the Gold charts. There is a newer series (and not sure that they work on the current generation of the RayMarine chart plotters--that is the Platinum plus series. These have many more POI and much better photo over lay--see Panbo's column yesterday).

If you want points of interest then consider the platinium charts. I find that many of the POI are outdated by the time you get the chart--if you want to be "up to date"--then consider using Active Captain, rather than buying new chips for the chart plotter every 6 to 12 months.
 
There are always different points of view, and it all depends on how you plan to use the radar. I regularily use both Furuno and RayNav. My personal choice is the RayNav E120/4 KW. Lots of bang the buck, and the 4 KW makes a big difference IN OUR AREA. In heavy rain (in the Pac NW??) it's the difference between running blind and being able to see the little guys...

Don't have a clue on buying on eBay. There are several authorized dealers who sell there, but checking with Raytheon would be wise indeed.

Charlie, give me a PM if you'd like more, and sure sorry to have missed you at the big chow down. Very sorry!!!

Dusty
 
Looks like I am in the minority here, but I installed a new Garmin system and I am very happy with it. I have the 4212 with a 4kw radar and GSD22 digital sounder. The display is awesome and the system is very intuitive and easy to use. The radar overlay works great and I frequently use the MARPA feature to track other boats. The auto routing feature is nice but it is really conservative and sometimes will not draw a route if the water is more shallow than the minimum depth set in the system, and it is not user changeable.

If I was going to do it again, I would probably get the same system but with the 5212 touch screen display. I bought mine before they were released and thought the touch screen would be a bad idea on a boat. I played with one in the boat store and it seems even easier to use than the 4212...
 
No knock on Garmin. Haven't used one of their radars yet and look forward to getting one on the water for a good test. Have lots of Garmin other stuff -- even a little Garmin stock. All good, and very user-friendly. We all tend to support our purchases (guilty!!), but I'm fortunate to be able to use many brands, and have done a lot of radar testing -- and teaching.

Here, where there are tows, tankers, and dozens of other commercial vessels around (fog or not) every time we get underway, the AIS is a great help.

Dusty
 
Dusty, How will AIS help me. I am in a hotel in Simi Valley full of Ron Paul' supporters fresh friom the TV debate at the Reagan library next door. The B.....tards are between me and the bar and I have just had a day of corporate ego babysitting.
I tried going out an getting drunk but now I have a lobby full of Paperazzi who obviously cannot find Britney Spears.

Where are you when I need you ??

Merv
 
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