C-Dory 25 Deck Sole Hatch Installation

J

journey on

New member
The C-Dory 25 has a couple of drainage issues. One of them is the 2 ea doors in the cockpit sole. They leak. Any time I wash the boat or it rains (something it rarely does in San Diego) I have a bunch of water in the bilge and it’s a bear to pump it out. So, when Bob/thataway mentioned that Innovative Products made a 12 x 26 which would cover the existing hatch, I ordered 2 ea, ASAP. They are $120 ea, but I’d suffered for more than a decade. The original post was Deck floor hatch seal 25 ft cruiser

The rest of this shows what it took to fit them. Note that this is a 2005, your boat may vary. If there are any questions, look at your C-Dory 25 and compare them to the pics. I didn’t take too many.

First, the easiest job was to remove the existing hatches, shown in Picture 1. Note that one wants to cover the old hinge holes, Picture 2. Also remove the metal latch, 2 screws removed from below, and un-clip the wire bundles running along the forward edge. Note that the deck may not be perfectly flat, mine wasn’t. Let us hope that doesn’t distort the new hatch so much it doesn’t seal.

Next, the cutout which was 10 1/2" x 24 1/4". That 10 ½ “ width fits inside the recess C-Dory made for their hatches and it will position the hatch so it covers the old screw holes. The 24 ½” dimension is longer that the recess, so I used the outboard end as a start and the inboard fell where it may, as shown in Picture 2. The rounded corners are 2 ¼ radius, neatly drawn by hand. The best way to cut the deck is a metal cutting blade in a jigsaw. However, Journey On has the corners of the holding tank just peeking out from the cutout edge. I used drywall cutting bits and a Dremel tool. After gouging the tank, I slipped a stainless sheet between the deck and tank to stop that nonsense. The Dremel also had a sanding tool which cleaned the edges up. Picture 1 shows the cutout material and Picture 2 shows the cutout itself. That was 75% of the job.

Then I removed some balsa (I tried for ¼ “ but got more,) filled the inboard end of the cutout with thickened epoxy. This wasn’t for sealing but to restore structural rigidity to the deck.

Laid the outer hatch in and marked the holes for #8 screws. Be careful, some holes fell right where the deck curved down for the old hatch. 22 holes for each hatch. That sucker will not come off or leak under the hatch with those screws and the 5200. Note that most holes are in resin, not balsa. Nevertheless, I’m going to seal the screws with 5200.

I checked with Innovative Product and they said that Saralon resin (a nylon, I think) was compatible with 5200, which I used.

Finally, use masking tape around the hatch so the wet sealant doesn’t spread, lay the 5200 on the bottom of the lower piece and install all 44 screws. The finished product is shown in Picture 3.

Boris

old_hatch_and_cutout.jpg
deck_cutout_and_outer_ring.jpg
installed_hatch.jpg
 
I'd like to know too. I'm sick of water getting in thru those hatches.

In my case, it isn't too hard to get the water out since I keep the boat on its trailer most of the time; so whenever I take the boat somewhere, I pull the drain plug while I am parked on an uphill, and the water comes out (including my tasting it to be sure it's fresh water :wink:).

Another problem I have is that the previous owner removed the marine head and replaced it with a port-a-potty. He then cut out the top of the now defunct holding tank. That old holding tank makes for great storage in what is essentially a water proof compartment. However, the fresh water leaking thru those hatches you replaced finds its way into that old holding tank ruining its biggest advantage (namely, its potential water proofness).
 
For those of you who doubled that those hatches are leak-proof, shame on you.

Let the 5200 cure for a week (recommended), mopped out the residual H2O from the old leaking hatches, sealed up the new ones and gave the cockpit a good washing out. Dry as a bone underneath.

I'll note that the new hatches are slightly raised (~1/2"?), which lets the water go right on by and out the overboard drain. The old ones had a submerged gap which gathered the water and let it drain down to the bilge.

Boris
 
Good to hear. I'll let my friend who has a boat similar to yours know...He was trying new gaskets, which I doubt would help. Thanks
 
Good news!

I have to do this. I just pulled my steps, the ones over the fuel filler hoses, and found a tiny bit of water sitting below there, on the port side. Crazy. I'm going to suck it out and let it dry. But the only solution is this...
 
localboy,

I assume that you know the fuel tank compartment is connected to the aft bilge, where the bilge pump resides, through a hole in the bulkhead. So, it there's water at the front of the tank compartment, there must be some in the aft. It sloshes back and forth as the boat is moving.

Boris
 
Yes I realize that. But I'm hoping this will stop/lessen the shear volume of water in the entire bilge. I've gone and parked on a steep incline like a ramp before and let the water drain out. The notion that salt water and a S/S fuel tank can co-exist without damage...uhm, no.
 
The fuel tanks are aluminum--even worse than Stanless Steel...Boris, The location and number of limber holes seems to vary from boat to boat. Even the deck hatch arrangement carries. Mine has the molded fiberglass, which I think I can make close to watertight with automotive door seals. Another C Brat contacted me, and with a same year boat, has a hatch like yours.

We did find isolated areas which were dry, when we pulled the floor or the 2003 C dory 25, I owned. Since they were dry, we did not put limber holes in the grid to those places. I would not be surprised if some water got under that step thru one of the access hatches, and it was isolated from the main part of the bilge, which does go into the area around the fuel tank.

I am replacing the access ports and the caulking around the steps. I will try and borescope that area tomorrow, to see if there are limber holes.
 
I went to order these and found that only Great Lakes Skipper and some guy on Ebay sells them. The guy on Ebay wanted $140 and GLS only has one in stock. I'm calling them tomorrow. WTH? :roll:
 
I spoke to both GLS and the manufacturer, Hi-Tide Manufacturing Group. GLS did not know they only had one in stock. Told me 6-8 weeks to get an order in-house. HMG said they only sell case lots to GLS and boat builders; no retail. I get it. The nice lady at HMG said if she had an open case, she'd sell directly to me (on an exception). She checked. No open case in the warehouse. :(

Crap. I'm checking back in mid-July.

I find it interesting that a company only has basically, one retail distributor in the entire U.S. I used to be a sales rep for scuba diving manufacturers. To have only one retail outlet would have put us out of business.
 
How many in a case Mark? Maybe there is enough of us here that want to do this mod that a case would be a feasible purchase if shared. I would probably participate if I can figure a way to ship them up here at a reasonable price.

Ron
 
Good info on the hatches. May give that a try, but I do notice that the main leaking during wash-down is because my scuppers (2006 CD25) don't drain very fast, particularly the starboard side. And, it is clear that the starboard floor hatch is beyond repair (squeaks when you step on it, and soft). The Port scupper is a little better, but the natural starboard list (even with the engines, twin honda 90s turned to port) forces the water to the scupper on the starboard. I have a feeling if the scuppers drained more quickly there would be little standing water to get through even the old hatch. Any fixes to more quickly drain standing water? Really a concern if you take a wave over the stern, though the bilge pump there should pump out. But if you get a large wave over the back, and the scuppers drop below the water line, then I guess it will slowly drain into the bilge and get pumped over? Sorry - new to this boat, and relatively new to boating.
Any thoughts?
 
When the boat is on plane the attitude is enough bow up to allow drainage thru the scuppers. At rest, the cockpit is close to being level. Taking a wave over the transom is very unlikely--as is over the cockpit side--these boats have a lot of buoyancy in the stern.

Check to be sure that there is no obstruction to flow out of the scuppers--that the tube is free, and no debris has built up.
 
Just to report on the hatches performance during our trip in the San Juans this summer.

First of all, it was nice to have a relatively dry bilge for the summer, especially since the bilge also connects with the fuel tank compartment.

The relatively is since the coaming pockets allow water in, especially during a washdown. So, when I avoided washing out those pockets, the bilge stayed dry. How did I check? By pulling out the drain plug when the boat was just out of the water, still on the ramp. Just got a handful of water.

Noticed that on a 2006 C-Dory 25 we met that the coaming pockets drained to the deck, not down to the bilge. So now I have to find out about those. Any suggestions?

Boris
 
Those coaming compartments are no longer available
The company that makes them will not return my email or phone calls. Mine are brittle and cracked at all screw holes. I’m going to try to make my own this winter somehow. Probably build a square box that fits in the opening then some sort of flashing to cover the screw holes. If you find something let me know
 
We have the later model ones. What does the older ones you are referring to look like?

I'm 80% finished with my hatch install; openings cut out, exposed balsa filled, screw holes drilled over-sized and also filled with West Systems epoxy...

Just have to re-drill holes, caulk & install hatches. Probably get it completed on Monday, since it's my only day off.
 
I want you folks to not take this comment negatively, but feel it'[s a good time to make the point, so I will.

It appears to me that as boats get bigger, there comes a size where it becomes possible or desirable to make a transition from placing many of the accessory systems from out in the open in a single open hull design to instead mount them below the floor in a double hulled boat with a raised inner floor above the outer hull.

This makes for a much cleaner interior design with much of the inner workings hidden from view. In the bigger boats this works fine, but there appears to be a difficult transition size where you can't simply build an engine room below decks and fill it with all the equipment you don't want to look at all the time.

Thus you wind up with boats with the gas tanks, water tanks, sewage tanks, pumps of every type, fish boxes, battery boxes, chargers, etc., etc., etc. below decks with deck access hatches to them to maintain, and with the equipment below in difficult to work on restricted areas.

It's a natural occurrance in design issues as boat size becomes larger, but has some necessary side effects.

This is probably something worth considering when getting older and looking at larger boats, (as are many of our C-Brats). I personally would be less willing to spend part of my remaining years down on my knees looking into some hole in the deck with mechanical and electrical problems in the dark abyss below. I'd look for a simple, easily serviced boat, or at least one as close to that as I could find.

Cheers!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
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