Bringing food into Canada--hope this is the right forum

rogerbum":qzlit9k8 said:
That said, I think there is some reason to be concerned about the border and it's not just "protecting us from Canadians". If you recall, it's not that many years ago that Port Angeles customs agents arrested Ahmed Ressam who was coming into the U.S. from Canada with explosives.
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Come on, Roger ol' pal...you're a bright and analytical guy. Don't leave out the most important data point...:mrgreen:

That is, the incident to which you refer is the lone example in decades of CBP inspections in Port Angeles. And, more importantly - it was uncovered with the limited staff in place prior to the multi-million dollar expansion of CBP infrastructure and 10-fold increase in manpower.

I don't even need to enter the "perceived safety vs. lost liberties" debate...it's easy enough to point out things were working just fine prior to this "upgrade."
 
thataway":36e7legf said:
The problem is NOT Canadian Customs. They were polite and effecient. The PROBLEM is the Psuedo Military attidude of the US customs and boarder patrol.
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It is sooo funny how people all have their horror story of a Border Agent. I for one think it is completely the other way around. I go into the US 5 to 10 times a year. I have only had one bad experience in the last 11 years in FH when I meet up with a woman who wanted to prove she was in control.

All my entries at FH, Blaine, PA (Victoria) with US agents have all been great. They have been step by step in process, but have always been even keeled with me, asked their questions and told me to have a nice day.

In fact it was the agents at FH that got me into getting a Nexus card. When I call with my card entering the US by water the Nexus agents I talk to in Bellingham are great.

However I have a number of bad times dealing with female Agents coming into Canada. They have always been overly officious, demeaning and control freaks.

So maybe it is always tough for a Citizen of a particular country returning to that country other than the visitor entering.
 
Da Nag":290n2puk said:
rogerbum":290n2puk said:
That said, I think there is some reason to be concerned about the border and it's not just "protecting us from Canadians". If you recall, it's not that many years ago that Port Angeles customs agents arrested Ahmed Ressam who was coming into the U.S. from Canada with explosives.
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Come on, Roger ol' pal...you're a bright and analytical guy. Don't leave out the most important data point...:mrgreen:

That is, the incident to which you refer is the lone example in decades of CBP inspections in Port Angeles. And, more importantly - it was uncovered with the limited staff in place prior to the multi-million dollar expansion of CBP infrastructure and 10-fold increase in manpower.

I don't even need to enter the "perceived safety vs. lost liberties" debate...it's easy enough to point out things were working just fine prior to this "upgrade."
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Agreed to a certain extent. The "perceived safety vs. lost liberties" argument is a good one and of course the Ben Franklin quote of "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither" comes to mind many times in the current environment. But even this left wing liberal is willing to consider the idea that things were not working just fine in the past at our borders and probably are not working "just fine" right now. I've always joked that if a terrorist wanted to smuggle a bomb into the U.S. they should hide it in a big box of cocaine because that stuff gets into the U.S. with very high reliability. :lol: Where to strike the balance is always the issue and that balance point is something on which there are very diverse opinions. My only point about the Ressam case is that there is at least one well publicized event in which protection at the Canadian border was useful (in spite of how friendly, wonderful etc the vast majority of Canadians are). Ressam wasn't Canadian but apparently perceived the US Canadian border as easier to cross than the US Mexican border. If I were a terrorist, I'd probably use the same logic so there is some reason to have some level of inspection at that border.

How thorough that inspection should be, how frequent and how people are chosen for inspection is complicated especially in an age where racial or ethnic profiling is prohibited AND in an age where homegrown terrorists are perhaps as likely as foreign ones. I'm just trying to acknowledge that the job of a customs agent is difficult and complex and that there's no way they are going to please everyone. That said, they could have handled Bob's case much better.
 
"my step brother in law has not been able to enter the US for 35 years because he had a pot bust in 1968. A former Governor of Washington has nothing to be blamed for that."

This is a reprehensible policy of the US, I have spoken publically many times (in my very small amount of influence) about the unjust criminalization of pot. There is some evidence that very senior US officials started waging war on pot and drugs as a way of disenfranchising a significant portion of US voters.
 
Gotta break up the serious tone here a bit.

The most pleasant interrogation by a US Customs official I have experienced was at Roche Harbor in 2008, after a beater day humping my 20 ft Bartender down the Gulf Islands and across Boundary Pass from Nanaimo in stiff head seas most of the way. She was a tall, beautiful Nordic accented woman with a crisp smile amd a ready wit, for which I was not prepared. Within minutes she had me tied up in knots from my own incomplete or befuddled answers, yet remained pleasant and professional, and beautiful throughout. At the end, we established that we had both grown up in the outer regions of San Diego County ... and as a parting shot, she queried me about a little town "just down the road" from where she grew up. Through the fog of a beaten brain, I croaked, "But I don't think there is such a town near there!!" She smiled broadly, winked, and said, "Congratulations, you passed!" And allowed me to shuffle down the dock, spent and drained, to my boat.

That lady had class, and got the job done with tact and efficiency.
 
Just to clarify; No "attitude" from me. Every one of the RV's aboard the Coho were stopped and "inspected". We did not see any of the cars or vans stopped and inspected. The hour wait before my "inspection" was because the agents (at least 4, maybe 6) were inspecting other RV's, and did not come to my RV (which was parked some distance from the exit, because of space and an agent's directions) until last. The initial question I was asked as I came to the exit point, was "do you have any food aboard". My answer was "yes". The next question was "What type of food". Answer," we have food for 2 months, most of it frozen, and all of it purchased in the US" (Marie pre cooks and freezes food four our trips--including the time on Powell). At that point I was directed where to park the RV. It would be most unusual for any RV to return to the US without some food aboard.

My initial interaction with the inspection agents was "The side compartments are locked--get down here and open them". There was no "Good afternoon, I would like to inspect your cargo etc". Each question was answered courteously and promptly, with no attitude on my part. After the driver's side was done, the senior agent, told the younger female to do the curb side. She had no idea of what things were in the RV (such as a large inverter, Golf cart batteries, tool chest. I had 1 1/2" thick x 16" square plywood blocks laminated for under the foot pads of the hydraulic leveling system, and large wooden chocks for under the tires--which she thought was "firewood". I asked if she wanted to see the fuel fill compartment; "yes"

There was no asking of permission to open any cabinet or the freezer/frig. There were orders to put items back after he had taken them out. My only negative comment was for him to keep his feet off the bed. I did not react to his comment. I am also well aware of tremendous power which these individuals can use--including cutting up RV's/Boats while the people are detained in another area. I would not take a risk of that happening. In my experience there is no place for "humor" or " smart remarks".

I also know how to act with respect in dealing with border agents, as I have cleared customs in and out of the US and Canada more than 30 times. (most of the time by boat, and only a few times have I had any direct involvement with an agent) I have also personally cleared into customs in over 50 countries world wide--including those which require serial number of everything we had aboard the boat--including engines, navigational gear, cameras….basically anything which might have a serial number. Plus in many places having to have crew lists, and a Zarpe (and multiple other papers) from the last port. Never, have I had this level of rudeness.

My hostess in Sequim was a customs broker in Los Angeles. She commented on how these agents often feel abused by the government, underpaid, overworked,--and allows them to vent about this. This agent had what appeared to be warrant officer bars which would make him a GS12, and most likely with bonus/add ons, making about $100,000 a year.
My hostess said she would have challenged the agent, and asked for the head of the port. In my experience, that would have probably escalated the situation.

I was considering visiting the Maritime Provinces next summer--That probably will not happen.
 
Bob, I am sorry for your poor experience with US border officers. Even doing
everything right, like you apparently did, doesn't soften the experience for you.
Just hearing about it makes me embarrassed it is our country this is happening
in to our own people.

I've travelled internationally somewhat and have had few problems, none like
you reported here. There has to be a lesson here for those who cross
international borders frequently, return home, and wish to avoid similar problems,
or worse.

First thoughts:
* Know the law
* Do not carry anything illegal
* Know what you have purchased out of the country and claim what you need to
* Avoid foodstuffs (fresh or frozen), alcohol, firearms and hidden compartments
* Be honest and polite
* Keep your "stuff" to an absolute minimum
* Make the Border Officer's job as easy for them as possible
* Have appropriate documents in order
* Hope for the best

Aye.
 
Foggy,
I agree 100% with that list of what to do. Especially as you travel by boat there are a huge host of regulations--and you are expected to know them.
But in some places this may be difficult--and I have some amusing stories about these.

However the reality of border crossing is a bit more complicated:
"Entering the United States
U.S. Customs Agent Inspecting VehicleThe U.S. CBP enforces hundreds of laws for other government agencies, such as the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Each of these agencies have rules that prevent the import of items they deem unsafe. CBP officers have responsibility for enforcing those prohibitions at the border.
There are a couple of different classifications

Prohibited means the item is forbidden by law to enter the United States. Examples of prohibited items are dangerous toys, cars that don’t protect their occupants in a crash, bush meat, or illegal substances like absinthe and Rohypnol.
Restricted means that special licenses or permits are required from a federal agency before the item is allowed to enter the United States. Examples of restricted items include firearms, certain fruits and vegetables, animal products, animal by products, and some animals.
The regulations change from time-to-time because they are based on current perceived threats to U.S. Fines for bringing a prohibited or restricted item across the border range form $100 to $50,000.

Here is a general list of the more common restricted or prohibited items:

As a general rule, prepared foods for personal consumption or for family/friend gatherings is allowed. However, all fruits, vegetables, plants and plant material of any type must be declared and inspected. There are a lot of regulations in this area and admissibility will also depend on where you are going after you arrive in the United States. The fine for failing to declare agricultural items at U.S. ports of entry is $300 for first time offenders. You may check the general admissibility of various plants by consulting APHIS’s FAVIR database.
Cooked eggs and foods such as breakfast tacos, egg plates and hard boiled eggs are prohibited.
The regulations governing meat and meat products are stringent. You may not import fresh, dried or canned meats or meat products or foods that have been prepared with meat.
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If you follow the letter of the law, I should have had a printed list of all food items aboard. All food items should have been in their original containers, and I should have sales receipts for each item, documenting that it was from USA. One example was although I had 4 bags of dog food aboard--one was put into a sealed plastic container, where we took it out for each feeding. I was told that all dog food should have been in its original bag.

The only thing taken was a group of chives. Of course no country of origin on these. Now try and find chives on any list. A comment repeated was that the person in the vehicle was responsible for knowing exactly what was in that vehicle. Just because one stated that a food was purchased in the US, is not evidence--you have to have proof.

One might say, that an RV is different than a boat. Not necessarily true, when we entered Alaska at least 5 times--the boat would be full of items for up to 5 months food supply--more than in the RV. We never had this problem in Ketchikan .

I have to deal with FDA in respect to my farm, and know how unreasonable many request are. Who knows what bureaucrat makes up all of these regulations. The issue here is the attitude of the person on the end of the line doing the enforcement.
 
OK.

I believe "Avoid foodstuffs (fresh or frozen)" covers most, if not all, of your
"Entering the United States" quote.

Aye.
 
Bringing this thread back to life as I pack my boat for my Inside Passage trip. I will be crossing the Canadian border by land, then the US one on the water at Ketchikan Trying to figure out all the customs BS is getting tiring. Traveling with no food is also BS. :mrgreen: So, for those that have crossed back and forth within the past year, should I be ok crossing into Canada and then back into the US, with a month or two's supply of canned goods. Spam, vegetables, fruits, potatoes, ham, chicken, tuna (think starkist). And also frozen bags of lunch meat and cheese. Everything in it's original bag. All purchased in the US. Last year we had no problems with this kind of stuff crossing north of Seattle. Coming back by boat at Roche Harbor, the border agent was more interested in foods, mostly fruit. But I pretty much got a pass for some Washington state apples... Thanks. Colby
 
Generally it is easier to bring food from the US into Canada than it is going Canada to the US. Everything you mentioned should be fine. SPAM in my opinion should stay south of the border. :wink :wink I tend to stock up on processed foods that are great for camping in the US, because you have a better selection there. Declare everything and you should not have any problems.

Don't try to bring fresh fruit and vegetables from Canada into the U.S. including Alaska. We import foods from all over the world and the U.S. is very protectionist about this to protect their agricultural industry. Meat should be fine as Canada is a major exporter of meat to the US and I rarely cross without a good supply of bison raised on my ranch.

P.S. We have good selection of food in Canada and if you can't read the label, turn the package around to the English side instead of the French side.

Enjoy your trip.
 
Thanks. I should probably just pack light for the first few days in the US, then buy what I need for the Canada part of the trip after we cross the border, then stock up in Ketchikan. But my wife got a little overzealous shopping for me, and I think I'm good for several months! :mrgreen: And I still have to buy produce and fresh vegetables for each country as I travel. Midnight Flyer is going to be a little heavy for a bit if I keep everything on. :roll: The one can of spam is actually beef, so not quite as bad. lol. I'm not really too worried about a lot of the canned stuff. It's the canned meat and commercially packaged lunch meat that I was a bit concerned with. And yes, the US seems to be more concerned about food than they should be. Especially between just Canada and here. Colby
 
Colby,

When you are heading north or coming south, you are welcome to overnight at our ranch. We are about an hour NW of Calgary and it's nicer here than most Walmarts. Let me know your travel dates, We are mostly here until early June when we are taking Mistaya to Vancouver Island for about a month or so.
 
I would not try and bring meat, fresh veggies or fruit across going either way. Canned stuff, probably OK, prepackaged - and unopened, probably OK, but I have been hassled for having some non-edible grapes (brown on the ends) in my garbage can in the boat and a package of unopened, purchased in USA at Costco Turkey Jerky in my ditch bag. Usually it is just a drive through, a few easy questions and then go, but you are subject to the customs officer whims going either way.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

1_10_2012_from_Canon_961.highlight.jpg
 
When you are heading north or coming south, you are welcome to overnight at our ranch. We are about an hour NW of Calgary and it's nicer here than most Walmarts. Let me know your travel dates, We are mostly here until early June when we are taking Mistaya to Vancouver Island for about a month or so.
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Peter & Judy, I might take you up on that offer. Do you mind if there is another boat & couple? (Blue Days). We will be traveling together. I just talked to Bill and as I had mentioned the beautiful area around Jasper and Banff, he said all the campgrounds in that area appear to be closed until June sometime. We plan to be near Great Falls, MT, overnighting next week, Friday the 17th, so I would expect us to be going through Calgary next Saturday, the 18th. Are you pretty much on way to Prince Rupert? I'll share this with Bill and PM you. Colby
 
Hi Harvey, no plans to bring any fresh produce or vegetables across, or any opened packages of meat. Just a lot of canned goods, along with some commercially packaged lunch meats and such. I'll do my shopping for the fresh produce when I get in Canada, just getting enuf to last maybe a week, then stock up again when we clear customs at Ketchikan. Colby
 
Colby, Conditions can change, like the wind...But I have never had a major issue going in or out of Canada by boat. (You have both on water and on the trailer) The only major hassle I had with a car or RV, is the incident described at Port Angeles. We have been in Canada and back since then with no hassle.
Our arrival in Ketchikan has always just been a phone call to CBP. At Prince Rupert we have had an agent come aboard several times.

But the US customs Web site says:
Every fruit or vegetable must be declared to a CBP Agriculture Specialist or CBP Officer and must be presented for inspection - regardless of its admissibility status. Fresh fruits and vegetables need to be clean and may be prohibited if they have insects or diseases.

Animal Products and Animal By-Products

The importation of fresh, dried or canned meats or meat products is generally not allowed from most foreign countries into the United States. This includes products that have been prepared with meat. However, currently pork and poultry, which has proof of origin, from Canada is enterable. Not all Ruminant material can enter however personal use amounts of bovine meat or foods containing bovine meat or meat products (e.g., beef, veal, bison) are allowed in passenger baggage and mail, no import permit or other documentation is required.
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Thanks Bob.I did call and talk to someone at Ketchikan Customs, and while I realize each agent has their own attitude, the guy I talked to was quite friendly. He basically said just have stuff for personal use and they are pretty easy going. He was familiar with many boaters that are just coming thru to cruise the Inside Passage and to have a good time. (Hope he’s the one I get when I get there. I won’t have any fresh produce when I go thru at either border so not concerned with that. :)
 
Crossing the border into Canada earlier today, north of Great Falls, MT, was a piece of cake. The Blue Days crew in the other lane got pretty much the same questions. How much alcohol, any firearms or weapons. Any Cannibas or CBG oil. Selling any items in Canada. How long are you staying. Where are you going. Where are you from. Any Firearms. (Got that one twice...) More than a certain value of goods. (I forget the number, maybe 10,000). The point sticking out here is, nothing about what food we had on board.

Then a few miles later at the truck weigh station, we went through a watercraft inspection. Alberta is much more thorough than any stations I've been in the states (other than a Barney Fife I had near Cody WY several years ago....). Makes it worth the stop and effort that is being put into these inspections. And friendly guy doing it. As opposed to one I went through just south of Billings, where there were 3 inspectors, 2 in training, and they seemed to be more going through the routine than really inspecting... The Alberta gentleman even crawled under the boat, and wanted to check the PFD's to make sure they were dry. Again, easy peazy if you follow the rules. Colby
 
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