Bottom Painting

C

CDory23

New member
My boat was berthed all of its life in the delta until I bought it. The bottom paint was in rough shape when I purchased and also had barnacles etc... I still have not done anything to it besides a light power washing and feel it is time. There is still some rough spots and some barnacles.

I do not know what kind of bottom paint is on it. The boat is now always on a trailer in less in use.

I have read about barrier coats before bottom painting. Since this is not the first time bottom paint will be applied is it safe to say this has already been done?

I have also read some paints aren't compatible with eachother. Does this mean I need to completely strip the current paint down before repainting? Its already pretty broken down which makes me think its ablative paint.

I have some pics in my album reffering to trailer which show the condition of the bottom paint.

Any suggestions on a good, long lasting paint for this boat which sits on a trailer? I have read good things about Pettit Vivid, but West Marine is saying its illegal in California now.

Thanks
 
I put Pettit Hydrocoat (water-based ablative) on New Moon ten years ago. On bare fiberglass, using two coats of sandless primer and 2-3 coats of paint.

She's spent every summer since cruising SE Alaska waters. I've added a coat or two on the sides down to the chines, and on the transom, but the bottom is still the original paint, still looks good, and still works. This pic is from last May.

20150530_200207.jpg
 
I would say you cannot be certain of the status of a barrier coat. For one thing, there may not be one. Oftentimes people "just" bottom paint. For another, many times the application is done as more of a "tie coat" than an actual barrier coat (this depends on thickness - a tie coat is thinner, and sometimes even when a barrier coat was intended, the proper millage is not put on).

That all said, you don't really have any need for a barrier coat (or maybe even for bottom paint) if your boat is going to be living on a trailer now. Bottom paint is only needed for a boat sitting in the water (and the amount of time you can sit without worrying depends on location). But even in a high-fouling area (Florida, Chesapeake), if a weeks-long time in the water is only a one-time thing, you can have the bottom scrubbed a few times.

So if it were me, and your boat wasn't bottom painted already, I wouldn't paint it at all. I realize yours already has been painted, so you have to move from there as a base, but I just mention it for perspective.

Generally you can't put a harder paint over a softer one. Also, you can't really put anything over a vinyl-based paint (except more of the same). Also some paints don't retain their power when out of the water, so that's something to consider.

Is there any way you can find out what's on your boat now? Contact former marina or yard? Maybe they can tell you specifically, or maybe you can at least get an idea of what is typically applied in that area (many areas have a most-used paint). That would be helpful.

If you take a look at something like a West Advisor on the topic, you can get a feel for the various paints. Essentially, they are tailored for different purposes. Local environment, whether the boat sits a lot, whether it's on a trailer, is speed important? Etc. etc.

If the paint is starting to come off, you might consider trying to go back to gelcoat; but that may or may not be practical. Not that there is anything wrong with bottom paint, but if you don't need it...
 
Are there any blisters on the bottom? Looking at the photos it appears that there may be some. ???

IMG_4248.jpg


The boat does not appear as if a barrier coat has been applied.

Items which we need to know: Where is the boat going to be located (Specific bay or harbor). How much of the time in the water? what year is the boat?

Even if you are only going to trailer the boat--you need to take some actions, since the cosmetics are not good.

Ask your local West Marine what bottom paints are allowed! Some areas, such as San Diego, are banning any paint with copper in it. Check local requirements.

California also has some bans based on the VOC in the paint, although not the specific anti fouling chemicals. Even going to the leach rate for anti fouling materials may not tell you which ones are "legal"....

calif leach rate

Cleaning the bottom--probably the best is going to be soda blasting by a very good professional. DO NOT SANDBLAST the boat. Sand blasting will damage the gel coat, and can expose fibers of glass in the first layer of mat. Another option is sanding down and fairing the bottom. This can be done, but you will need a full suit, respirator (best to have an external air source.). Bottom paint is toxic. Some marinas have special regulations about how bottom paint dust is disposed of (vacuum system, and tarps under the boat to catch all of the bottom paint). It is possible that high pressure water blasting may take the rest of the bottom paint off. You have to be careful, since too high pressure can also damage the gel coat. You can scrap off the areas where there are barnacles. Use a flat blade scraper, and be very careful to not gouge the gel coat.

Then apply a two part epoxy barrier coat. Finally one of the paints which is legal in Calif.

If there are blisters, they have to be ground out, filled with concentric circles of glass cloth and epoxy--unless very superficial, then a high density filler, and cabosil with epoxy can be used. You should never use "Bondo" or automotive polyester based fillers (especially under the water).
 
Thanks for the responses.

I don't see too much blistering on the bottom. The sides and back seem to be in the worst shape. I"m uploading new pictures of the bottom paint currently to my album. The boat will be stored on a trailer from now on with my ownership. I generally don't spend more than a week with the boat in the water.

It is a 2003 Cruiser which spent its life in the delta moored in brackish water until I purchased in late 2013. I own a pressure washer which I figured I would use and an orbital sander to smooth it out before bottom painting. Besides few obvious barnacles I also see some areas which look like tiny Sand dollars are attached. They are visible in the "bottom 3" picture.

Thataway-do you still come to the same conclusion about blisters with the newer pics?

Thanks.
 
The more I recall of cleaning the bottom when I initialy bought and doing more research on this, I think those were limpets attached to the boat. I can't find any blistering anywhere on the boat

My plan of attack now is.

Powerwash paint off, Scrap off any barnacles/limpet left on and lightly sand with oribital sander. (haven't researched grit yet)

I can get Pettit Vivid from Jamestown Distributors and will paint with that.

I"m open to other paint recommendations for a trailered boat.
 
I"ve done a bit more research and I"m wondering about this product now.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... o?pid=2330


I think for my uses of never having the boat in the water for more than a week at a time and rarely even that long it may be a good bet. I'd be fine with just gelcoat, but I think getting back to that would be expensive and time consuming so this seems like a happy medium.

Anybody have experiences with this prodouct?
 
Thanks for posting the further pictures of the bottom paint. I have never used that epoxy. It is not anti fouling. I feel it will be easier to hide and of the prior issues/paint with a couple of coats of Vivid.

If you use the epoxy or gel coat, you would have to have the bottom perfectly fair and remove every bit of the old bottom paint--the Vivid will still look good, even if you don't fill in all of the tiny scratches.

You can sand smooth and fill the scratches, yet still not remove all of the bottom paint, then apply the new Vivid, with good adherence.

The small discs you see are most likely the foot concretions, not limpets, from the barnacles. The glue that the barnacles use is very difficult to remove. At this point metal scrapers, (be careful), try EZ off, Oven Cleaner, or if these are not working Muriatic Acid (be careful, wear protection, including gloves, suit, eye and respirator. The acid will damage any galvanizing on the trailer, don't get it on the trailer.

Sanding can work, but it is so easy to sand down the surrounding gel coat, which is much softer. You are going to be sanding the current bottom paint and when doing that, you can see how it works with the barnacle residual.

I don't see any definite blisters in the photos--and it is unusual for C dory to develop blisters (although some have had gel coat defects). If you don't feel any blisters, then good to go!
 
The VC product looks interesting if you aren't going to be spending "longish" periods of time in fouling waters (and it sounds like you may not be). From what I can tell (non-heavy research), it's basically something you do in lieu of having a smooth, gelcoated bottom. It will end up smooth and hard (and burnishable). This would be great for going fast without the resistance of bottom paint. And perhaps it's something you only have to do once (i.e. doesn't wear out). Basically, it looks like something you put on like you would gelcoat, for a smooth, hard surface. As mentioned, it has no biocide whatsoever, so it would be like having a gelcoated bottom -- with all the benefits and drawbacks thereof. (I have only read the Jamestown page - don't have time this morning to pore over the product data sheets.)

We used to use a lot of VC bottom paint in the great lakes, but it was vinyl-based. Easy to apply, very smooth and fast, and plenty good enough biocide for Great Lakes waters, BUT you could never put anything else over it because it was vinyl-based. Folks who would buy a Great Lakes boat and bring it to salt water expecting to just put "real" bottom paint over it would then find out they had to completely strip the bottom in order to apply any other paint. Ugh! But it sounds like this VC product you linked to is epoxy based (of course you'd want to read the various data sheets beyond just the link on Jamestown), so wouldn't have that issue at all. If you don't need any anti-fouling (in other words, if you would have been fine with a plain, gelcoated bottom, as many C-Doryers would be), then it could be an interesting option. It would allow you to sand and prep (i.e. get rid of your old bottom paint) but not have to keep the gelcoat perfect in the process; then put on a fresh coat of this product. I can think of numerous cases where this would be a great thing.

On the other hand, if you aren't concerned about losing a little bit of speed/efficiency (and I'm not saying you should be), then I would guess that prep for and application of a few coats of Vivid might be easier (but I'd read the data sheets before deciding, if it were me).

Anyway, interesting product that I had not known about before. Essentially it sounds like putting on a "new bottom" vs. putting on anti-fouling. Useful for a boat that doesn't need bottom paint, but doesn't have a perfect, gelcoated bottom.
 
If the boat had not been bottom painted, I would agree that the VC epoxy coat would be a good option. Two part Epoxy based paints, do go on thick, and can be a bit tricky to apply. I am concerned how much the paint will telegraph any underlying defects--I know that Vivid hides them well.

However, to get good adhesion all of the old bottom paint will have to be removed. The instructions for application over "bare fiberglas" include:

VC Performance Epoxy can be applied to gelcoat, bare fiberglass, epoxy and properly primed metal. Apply to clean, dry, properly prepared surfaces only. VC Performance Epoxy can only be applied over two component products that are specified for underwater use. If there is any single paint (such as antifouling paint) on the surface, it must be removed and then proceed as with bare surface.
Number of Coats 3-4 as needed
Click to expand...


APPLICATION AND USE
BARE FIBERGLASS: Begin by scrubbing well using soap and water and a stiff brush. Rinse with fresh water. Wipe with Fiberglass Solvent Wash 202. Sand with 80 grade (grit) paper. Wipe with Fiberglass Solvent Wash 202.
Click to expand...


The tip and roll method--instructions for applications are:
■ When applying by roller, fill the roller with VCPerformance Epoxy and let it sit for a minute.This will allow any air in the roller to come to the surface and be eliminated.
■ When rolling and tipping the best technique is to gang or team paint, the first person rolls out a small area and the second will follow right behind to tip off. In this manner you can cover a large area in a small amount of time, keep a small wet edge and achieve a smooth finish.
■ For best results begin wet sanding within 24hours of the last application of VCPerformance Epoxy as the epoxy becomes extremely hard and progressively harder to sand.
Click to expand...

Note that the suggestion is that you wet sand the bottom to get the smooth finish, and that 3 to 4 coats are required. This is a lot more work. I have seen some very good tip and roll, and I have seen some really lousy tip and roll jobs. If you have experience in tip and roll--under the bottom of a boat--then I would say go for it. But it is going to be a lot more work than just putting on a couple of coats of bottom paint. This is why I suggest the bottom paint over the two part epoxy!
 
Yep, agreed. The bottom paint would need to be removed and a good surface prep done as per the instructions. It would be easier to put on a few coats of Vivid, I'm sure. So, it depends on what the desired outcome is, and how much work one is willing to do, both now and in the future (bottom paint would likely need to be renewed whereas perhaps the VC product is more "permanent"-- I'd have to read the data sheets to know for sure, and I can't do that right now).

But the VC product seems like an interesting option for certain situations. I'm glad to know about it for future reference, and I'd likely be considering it if I were the original poster (my C-Dory has the original gelcoated bottom, so no personal interest for my current boat).
 
Thanks again for the replies.

I think I will probably go with Vivid. It seems the easier option and the girlfriend likes having a color v.s. the VC which is only white. I hope I can get 5 years or so out of it. I launch the boat at least 3 times a month and a little worried of it wearing off on the bunks.

Has anybody applied bottom paint while the boat is on the trailer? Its obvious not the most practical but I can crawl underneath. I figure I could jack up one side at a time to work on the places covered by the bunks. Otherwise I guess its a few days at a yard.
 
Applied bottom paint a number of times on the trailer, but it is much easier--to apply off the trailer. You need clearance for the sander, and the roller etc. You have to protect the trailer with vinyl sheeting. Raising one side, can be done, but you are putting more weight on the outer bunks of the other side. Be sure that nothing slides!! You always want back up blocking/jack stands.

I use wooden cribbing--4 x 4 or 6 x6, stacked. Some use concrete blocks--I have used that only with the bare frame, such as when changing out axles, or brakes and weeks etc. My concern with the concrete blocs is that they can collapse.

I use at least 3 jacks--often two 4 ton hydraulic piston jacks and an aluminum car jack rated at 4,000 lbs.

I will put jacks under the rear part of the hull, and forward, high enough to allow the trailer to move forward about 10 to 12". At that point, put cribbing under the aft center of the bottom, by the transom. I use jack stands on the outer side --or more wooden cribbing. Then I move the forward jack, to clear the frame (actually alternate with two jacks, until I get the trailer all of the way clear. I then block the keel forward to distribute the weight. If I am working under the boat, I will put a second set of jack stands forward, just as a safety. Do all of your sanding--often you can start and sand a final place where you want to have the blocking. But not unusual to have to move the keel blocks and other blocks/jackbstands, to be able to sand and point under the first set of blocks

Some of us, put the final color on first, then a black coat, and final paint--3 coats. If there is some wear where the bunks contact, it is easy to jack the boat and put on a coat of fresh paint.

I get 3 to 4 years on the Caracal, which is launched more than the C Dory with Vivid. The boat is in the water at least a month a year, 6 months on the lift in back of my home, and 5 months on the trailer.

After launching, wash down the trailer, then after it is dry, spray the bunks with Liquid rollers (dry silicon spray). It reduces the friction, and keep form pulling bottom paint off.

You are wise to use anti-fooling paint. It is very easy to touch up.

Back when we were racing sailboats, we used hard anti fouling paint, and would wet sand with 1200 or use one of the green scotch pads almost every week before racing. Our biggest boat we raced was 45 feet, and considerable underwater area, but 4 guys, (two with Hooka or SCUBA would knock it out in less than an hour.

Any questions about taking the boat off the trailer, give me a shout.
 
Here is a video showing how to properly move a boat off a trailer Some do it by cranking the jack foot on the front of the trailer frame all of the way down, putting cribbing under the aft part of the boat, and then cranking up the jack foot to put the weight on the aft blocking--then using blocks or jacks to pull it out the rest of the way, I feel that the way in the video is safer.

My technique is slightly different in that I don't use the screw marine jack stand, to raise the boat, I use hydraulic jacks.--flat boards (at least 2 x 8") under the jacks, plus 2x4 between the jack and the boat. Get the boat high enough to clear the trailer, and put the weight on the center of the hull--the jack stands are just to "balance" the boat. The jack stands must be chained together to prevent slippage. Be sure that the bases are stable and on boards--also blocks between the boat and jack stand. Then you can use the two hydraulic jacks, to "walk" the front support around the cross beams of the trailer. Be sure that truck pulling the trailer out is going straight! After the last jack is clear of the trailer frame, then build cribbing up to take the weight of the boat, about where the forward cabin bulkhead is located,

This is an example--rated at 2 tons each-- pair for $25 at your local Auto Zone etc or other auto parts store.
Jack Stands

Another option--slightly more expensive, but better adjustment"
Or an aluminum screw stand (RV type), rated at 6 tons, for $22 each.

Always double check, at each step, to be safe!
 
Journey On sits on an e-z loader roller trailer, which has rubber suspension. Now, the only time the boat should come off the trailer is when I paint the bottom. Lifting it up off the rollers is a bear because of the suspension. To lift the boat off the rollers, you have to unload the suspension. That's a looong lift, and a pain in the rear.

So, I paint what I can see when the boat is on the trailer. Sometimes I lift the whole trailer by rolling it up on blocks. When I've got the areas that aren't masked by rollers, I loosen the cable which holds the boat forward, give the trailer a jerk with the truck, the boat slides back on the trailer and I can block the back of the trailer and paint the spots I've missed.

A lot easier than blocking and unloading the boat off the trailer. Another advantage of roller trailers.

Boris
 
BORIS-

I've done that too, but after painting all but what's covered by the rollers, I used the winch on the front of the trailer to pull the boat backward a foot or so by reversing the direction of pull with some extra ropes and pulleys. Simple and it works!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
I received my Vivd bottom paint for the boat and have come up with a plan for prepping and painting on the trailer.

I Pressure washed the old bottom paint in a small area first to confirm my honda 6hp with a 0 degree tip would not damage gel coat. All seemed fine so I continued around. I then noticed areas where it looks like barnacles were previously attached now were crevices into the fiberglass. Areas are about 1/4" in diameter by about an 1/8" deep roughly. These will definitley need to be filled, but I'm unsure of where to go from here. Is this because The pressure washer was too strong or were these weak points from where the barnacles damaged the bottom of the boat? Another note is I used a bottom cleaner (don't remember exact one) bought at West Marine to help get rid of the barnacles when originally purchased. I do remember the smell of this treatment being very strong.

I will post some pics of the areas tomorrow.
 
There are now 3 pictures of the gouges in my album labeled gouge 1 through 3. If you look next to them it seems as if some other areas are almost ready to do the same. Barnacle Damage?
 
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