Boat heaters
- Thread starter Brooks Cooper
- Start date
Well after spending some really cold time on the boat earlier this week I came to realize the current Wallas heater is insufficient for cold winter boating. It was 19F air temp and I had that thing cranked up all the way; it was not sufficient. I kept having to stand in front of it which is ridiculous. M would NEVER have been comfortable.
Time to do some reading on my options and invest some time/money on something better.....
Time to do some reading on my options and invest some time/money on something better.....
20dauntless
New member
Mark, if local support is important to you get a Webasto. I have an Espar in the NT and the dealer in Seattle is difficult to work with...it's hard to get anyone on the phone, voicemails don't get returned, repairs take far longer than estimated...
Sure Marine sells Webasto and I've had excellent service from them (for a Force 10 stove).
Excellent service from Lubrication Specialist for Espar, too. They respond to emails almost instantly, answer their phone, and provide instructions for maintenance and repairs. And their prices are the best around.
Sure Marine sells Webasto and I've had excellent service from them (for a Force 10 stove).
Excellent service from Lubrication Specialist for Espar, too. They respond to emails almost instantly, answer their phone, and provide instructions for maintenance and repairs. And their prices are the best around.
Cool. Thanks.
Yeah, I'm leaning towards either of those you mentioned. Plenty of space under the galley for the heater, duct work etc. I like that the Webasto is thermostatically controlled too. It's been a couple of years since I've done the research. I had a notebook full of parts needed etc for an install, but of course, I don't know what I did with it. Some insulation would be nice too, but it comes down to work, money and work....
I'm not retired yet and won't be for at least 6 more yrs.
:roll: :x
Yeah, I'm leaning towards either of those you mentioned. Plenty of space under the galley for the heater, duct work etc. I like that the Webasto is thermostatically controlled too. It's been a couple of years since I've done the research. I had a notebook full of parts needed etc for an install, but of course, I don't know what I did with it. Some insulation would be nice too, but it comes down to work, money and work....
I'm not retired yet and won't be for at least 6 more yrs.
:roll: :x
Mark,
While often promoted as a unit for small boats.....
We spent last weekend out in the south sound and used the Wallas 1300 heater when we were on board. We have run it quite a bit at home and on the water for about 50 hours so far and no problems. Cindie and I are quite sure it puts out significantly more heat than the wallas combo heater in our 25. It can only use one short duct extension and does not feature a thermostat but we just crack a window for balance. It uses so little fuel and power we don't mind that a bit. We think it would heat the cabin of a 25 just fine but leave the berth a little ignored unless you move the air with another fan. It was a relatively simple install and we love it. If you really want a thermostat or want to split the heat to a couple of outlets, this unit can't do that. If you want low power/fuel usage and low noise for anchor time or overnight use without dock power, I think it has those advantages over many other products. Lets just say they DON'T make a silencer for it.
We heat our big boxy canvased cockpit along with the small cabin/berth areas and it does a great job even below freezing. Other boaters around asked if we were staying overnight and likely thought we would freeze to death not knowing about our secret weapon. Over 70 hours of runtime on the 10liter tank consuming as little as 28 amp hours over that duration. We wanted overnighting ability and quiet.
Fuel consumption: .13 l/h
Electricity consumption: 0,4A
Greg
While often promoted as a unit for small boats.....
We spent last weekend out in the south sound and used the Wallas 1300 heater when we were on board. We have run it quite a bit at home and on the water for about 50 hours so far and no problems. Cindie and I are quite sure it puts out significantly more heat than the wallas combo heater in our 25. It can only use one short duct extension and does not feature a thermostat but we just crack a window for balance. It uses so little fuel and power we don't mind that a bit. We think it would heat the cabin of a 25 just fine but leave the berth a little ignored unless you move the air with another fan. It was a relatively simple install and we love it. If you really want a thermostat or want to split the heat to a couple of outlets, this unit can't do that. If you want low power/fuel usage and low noise for anchor time or overnight use without dock power, I think it has those advantages over many other products. Lets just say they DON'T make a silencer for it.
We heat our big boxy canvased cockpit along with the small cabin/berth areas and it does a great job even below freezing. Other boaters around asked if we were staying overnight and likely thought we would freeze to death not knowing about our secret weapon. Over 70 hours of runtime on the 10liter tank consuming as little as 28 amp hours over that duration. We wanted overnighting ability and quiet.
Fuel consumption: .13 l/h
Electricity consumption: 0,4A
Greg
Not For Hire
New member
1300 runs on kerosene or Klean Heat. I think the 95 runs on diesel or Klean Heat?
You could use a single tank of the same fuel for both appliances so long as they run the same fuel. We use Kleen heat. Combining the intake and exhaust would not likely work at all unless you upsized the single shared ports and could come up with appropriate fittings for joining them. I have never even heard of that being done.
We have the Wallas 1300 unit wall mounted and visible so we did not need any ducting. The heat outlet has a rotating louvered vent so you can spin it to direct the air in different directions. You can add a short flex hose to mount the unit out of sight in a cabinet and duct the heat outside that cabinet and you can also add a remote on/off switch for that type of install.
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _photo.php
Greg
We have the Wallas 1300 unit wall mounted and visible so we did not need any ducting. The heat outlet has a rotating louvered vent so you can spin it to direct the air in different directions. You can add a short flex hose to mount the unit out of sight in a cabinet and duct the heat outside that cabinet and you can also add a remote on/off switch for that type of install.
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _photo.php
Greg
hardee":2zirrk1l said:Thanks for the reply. I run Kleen Heet in the 95 and was thinking of the 1300 as primary heat instead of the stove top, however, installing under the sink. I do like the idea of visible though.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Harvey,
I have a Wallas kerosene (or Klean Heet) stovetop/blower original equipment in my boat. Last year I picked up a Wallas 1300 kerosene heater on sale at the SBS. I kept the stove, too. Given where I decided to mount the 1300, there is no practical way to consolidate fuel supply, and I'm very skeptical of a single exhaust system.
Don't know if this would work on a 22, but here's what I did on my 23:
It was a bit of work to fit it on the port side, but I am very happy with the result. Most importantly, it kept my wife happy on our last Alaska trip. It is visible, which I like. It is simple and without ducting, which I also like. It does take up some room - but I've found it more than worth it. Last week it was about 28F when I got in the boat an hour or so before sunrise, and it took the chill off pretty quickly and by the time the sun hit the boat I was opening windows.
Here's the complete installation saga:
Wallas 1300 Installation
Bill,
Thanks, that looks pretty nice and I had actually thought of using a port side installation too. That would negate the tank sharing and the exhaust on the 1300 is larger than the 95, so that is probably out anyway.
What is the large duct below for? Looks like the fuel line goes up inside of that? Is it cold air return, and is it necessary to enclose the fuel inside that?
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Thanks, that looks pretty nice and I had actually thought of using a port side installation too. That would negate the tank sharing and the exhaust on the 1300 is larger than the 95, so that is probably out anyway.
What is the large duct below for? Looks like the fuel line goes up inside of that? Is it cold air return, and is it necessary to enclose the fuel inside that?
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
hardee":2ge0o35z said:Bill,
. . .
What is the large duct below for? Looks like the fuel line goes up inside of that? Is it cold air return, and is it necessary to enclose the fuel inside that?
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
It just acts as a protective conduit for the fuel line and fuel return line. The 1300 doesn't require a return air duct. The tube keeps clumsy Big Foot (yours truly), and "active" grandkids from disassembling things. There's undoubtedly a more elegant way to protect the lines from being snagged, but I just cobbled that together out of stuff I had around. My determination to put the heater in the location I wanted necessitated some improvising. The diameter of the conduit just allows the fuel line assembly and tank cap to be removed upward from the tank, which then allows the tank itself to be slid out. I'm quite happy with how it worked out.
Pat Anderson
New member
Geez, have I been asleep since 2009?? I can't believe I have not weighed in here!
I know there will be dissent - there always is - but there are only two kinds of Wallas owners, those whose Wallas has crapped out, and those whose Wallas is going to crap out. It is jut too complicated and finicky, and when it craps out, it will be at the most inconvenient time in the most inconvenient place, like when you are in Alaska. Ask Bill and El, ask Sam Landsman. Ask us! It is just a matter of time. Happens to some sooner, some later, but it happens to all Wallas owners eventually. Sorry, truth.
We have a Webasto, actually the truck sleeper version, which we bought for about $900, and had installed by Scott Boysen, when C-Dory would still do work like this for C-Dory owners, for another $900, including fabrication of mounting brackets, outside venting, duct installation, wiring, etc. Now you will probably have to find a shop to do it, unless you are pretty good with stuff like this yourself, which I am not, I needed to "call the man"! If you know the Andy Griffith Show you will know what this means, if not, well, you can probably still figure it out!
The Webasto is the cat's meow, highly recommended.
I know there will be dissent - there always is - but there are only two kinds of Wallas owners, those whose Wallas has crapped out, and those whose Wallas is going to crap out. It is jut too complicated and finicky, and when it craps out, it will be at the most inconvenient time in the most inconvenient place, like when you are in Alaska. Ask Bill and El, ask Sam Landsman. Ask us! It is just a matter of time. Happens to some sooner, some later, but it happens to all Wallas owners eventually. Sorry, truth.
We have a Webasto, actually the truck sleeper version, which we bought for about $900, and had installed by Scott Boysen, when C-Dory would still do work like this for C-Dory owners, for another $900, including fabrication of mounting brackets, outside venting, duct installation, wiring, etc. Now you will probably have to find a shop to do it, unless you are pretty good with stuff like this yourself, which I am not, I needed to "call the man"! If you know the Andy Griffith Show you will know what this means, if not, well, you can probably still figure it out!
The Webasto is the cat's meow, highly recommended.
Pat Anderson":1e8ag9s4 said:
From the research I have done, the Wallas "heater only" products are quite a bit more robust and less prone to potential problems than the combination heater/cooking stoves. So there may be no particular reason to worry about getting a finicky one (any more than with any product, I mean).
Pat, I don't know which one of us is dissenting, but here's my two cents worth.
My original equipment Wallas has worked flawlessly for seven years. (Since two years before you fell asleep, Pat.
) Still going strong. Never failed to start. Never failed to run. Has made three 2,000 + mile trips, among others, over those seven years. Maybe I'm just lucky. There's a lot of Irish in me. The darn thing won't crap out on me. Lasted longer than my backup Garmin GPS/Chartplotter. Lasted longer than my Furuno Radome. Lasted longer than my Airmar Transducer. Heck, I'm on my second set of Yamahas! (OK, the first set didn't crap out, they just had a couple K hours on them, and the new F70's looked so tempting!) In fact, I've been so happy with my original little one-burner Wallas stove top with blower, that I bought another Wallas to go with it! (Glutton for punishment, eh?)
Seriously, I think if you treat a Wallas right, it will return the favor. It ain't rocket science. And lest you think I'm some sort of techie/mechanical/motor-head kind of guy with more than a novice's understanding of things related to running a stove, I should tell you I bought my very first boat after I retired and had never even heard of Wallas until I bought my second (current) boat.
Anyway, it's also true that there only two kinds of people, those who have died and those who are going to die. It is, as you say, just a matter of time. At least while I'm waiting, I'll be warm!
My original equipment Wallas has worked flawlessly for seven years. (Since two years before you fell asleep, Pat.
) Still going strong. Never failed to start. Never failed to run. Has made three 2,000 + mile trips, among others, over those seven years. Maybe I'm just lucky. There's a lot of Irish in me. The darn thing won't crap out on me. Lasted longer than my backup Garmin GPS/Chartplotter. Lasted longer than my Furuno Radome. Lasted longer than my Airmar Transducer. Heck, I'm on my second set of Yamahas! (OK, the first set didn't crap out, they just had a couple K hours on them, and the new F70's looked so tempting!) In fact, I've been so happy with my original little one-burner Wallas stove top with blower, that I bought another Wallas to go with it! (Glutton for punishment, eh?) Seriously, I think if you treat a Wallas right, it will return the favor. It ain't rocket science. And lest you think I'm some sort of techie/mechanical/motor-head kind of guy with more than a novice's understanding of things related to running a stove, I should tell you I bought my very first boat after I retired and had never even heard of Wallas until I bought my second (current) boat.
Anyway, it's also true that there only two kinds of people, those who have died and those who are going to die. It is, as you say, just a matter of time. At least while I'm waiting, I'll be warm!
The Wallas stove/heater has always worked for us too. But we've only used Kleen Heat in it. Nothing else. And I know to have strong batteries too when starting it etc. That said, it is neither a good stove NOR heater. Takes forever to boil water for coffee even, and the heating is marginal IMO.
I'll be looking at all options; even a Wallas as mentioned by Greg. Of course this will also entail some other cooking option, as my intention is to get rid of the Wallas all together. Therein lies another issue. Alcohol? Butane? Propane would be viable, but the storage/space issues eliminate that option for us. Each has it's advantages/disadvantages.
I'll be looking at all options; even a Wallas as mentioned by Greg. Of course this will also entail some other cooking option, as my intention is to get rid of the Wallas all together. Therein lies another issue. Alcohol? Butane? Propane would be viable, but the storage/space issues eliminate that option for us. Each has it's advantages/disadvantages.
I have a butane stove in my boat. The biggest problem is that when in cool/cold (but still boatable) weather the butane does not vaporize well. This usually leads to a flame that can blow out easily, especially at lower settings. There have been times where I have had to hug the butane canister for awhile to warm it up so that it will light or keep the stove burning. Inside the stove there is a metal piece that conducts some heat from the burner to the canister to keep it warm. However, this is a catch-22. If you can't keep the stove on, you can't heat the canister.
That said, the butane is pretty cheap. You can get 4 canisters for about $5 at any Asian grocery store. If you don't have an Asian grocery store in your area, you might have a hard time getting the canisters. This is probably not a problem in the PNW.
For cooler weather use, I understand that propane works better.
That said, the butane is pretty cheap. You can get 4 canisters for about $5 at any Asian grocery store. If you don't have an Asian grocery store in your area, you might have a hard time getting the canisters. This is probably not a problem in the PNW.
For cooler weather use, I understand that propane works better.
Pat Anderson
New member
We have a Webasto for heating and a one burner butane stove for cooking, and could not be happier. Better heating and better cooking than a Wallas. Plus I sold the damn Wallas for $1,500, which paid for most of the Webasto purchase and installation. The cost of a one burner butane stove is inconsequential. A tip - get your butane cartridges at an Asian grocery, not a sporting goods store! Asian grocery store price is $1.25 for the same size cartridge the sporting goods store sells for $3.50! I just bought a one burner propane stove that will be used in the cockpit for heating water mainly for washing dishes and bathing. I think we are pretty well set, but hey, if you are happy with a Wallas that is neither a good heater nor stove, and WILL crap out on you, even if you have strong batteries and use Kleenheat, more power to you! Just don't be surprised if you are in some really cold place a long way from a service facility when it goes.
Pat Anderson":12oi016h said:
My point was simply that this thread is about boat heaters, and that Wallas makes quite a few models of heaters that are ONLY heaters and not combination heater/cookers. These are apparently just as robust as other equivalent brands (from what I have been able to tell).
If I go diesel for my heating, I will be getting one of the Wallas heater-only models (not sure yet whether or not I will go diesel though), so that's why I've been researching them. And I say that having sold my Wallas heater/cooker (because I didn't want a combo unit, for various reasons).
I mention this because it sounds as though you are talking only about the heater/cooker combos, not the heater-specific models.
Chuckpacific
New member
My CD-22 had a Wallas. Although I never had any problems with it (used it 3-4 times a month year-round and only with Kleen Heat for ten years) I always wondered about alternatives. It was barely adequate for cooking and as for heating it was poorly situated to distribute warmth throughout the cabin but still much better than having nothing. And it was compact. In my current boat I have a Webasto diesel heater and a propane stove. Granted, it is a different boat, different setup but I now realize what I was missing. I can easily get the inside temperature up to 80+ degrees should I want and I can boil water in 3-4 minutes.
In retrospect I probably could have lived with the Wallas as a stovetop but for a year-round boater in the PNW I really needed a heavy duty forced air heat source that directed the warm air to the places it was needed most: the V-berth and the floor. If I would have done that I’m sure I would have realized the redundancy of the Wallas, sold it and added an alcohol, propane or butane cooking platform. If space is a problem I think the Wallas is a good solution. But the CD-22 has enough extra space to install a diesel heater and associated vents.
In retrospect I probably could have lived with the Wallas as a stovetop but for a year-round boater in the PNW I really needed a heavy duty forced air heat source that directed the warm air to the places it was needed most: the V-berth and the floor. If I would have done that I’m sure I would have realized the redundancy of the Wallas, sold it and added an alcohol, propane or butane cooking platform. If space is a problem I think the Wallas is a good solution. But the CD-22 has enough extra space to install a diesel heater and associated vents.