Better Cable Ties

A

Aurelia

New member
Reading an article on the Marine Installers Rant blog this morning reminded me of a common problem with sharp/bulky cable ties and I sure seem to use a ton of them bundling wires or hoses together on the boat and motorcycles as I tear into things to improve them or just figure them out.

This design is what I will try to use from now on:

http://cableorganizer.com/act/cobra-cable-ties/

And because I have not seen them in a store, I will be paying more to ship them than to buy them but sometimes that is the price of picky.
 
Nice, this is a welcome and overdue improvement.
When I bought new fuel filters (Honda) for the boat the parts guy gave me some cable ties with a concave surface under the head to secure the fuel line. He said their mechanics no longer use metal clamps for this purpose.
 
Thanks. I'm gonna order some various sized ones in white. One of my projects is to put all my new wiring into white sleeving; these will come on handy.
 
Chester":mimad883 said:
Nice, this is a welcome and overdue improvement.
When I bought new fuel filters (Honda) for the boat the parts guy gave me some cable ties with a concave surface under the head to secure the fuel line. He said their mechanics no longer use metal clamps for this purpose.
Click to expand...

Chester-

Can you get cable ties tight enough to securely hold fuel lines, even if doubled up?

I'd be leery of a leak/fire danger, until someone can prove to me that they're tight enough.

Personally,I'd prefer to trust a threaded Stainless Steel fastender (hose clamp) over a Plastic Ratchet (cable tie), intuitively and mechanically.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
There are special tools that really cinch the plastic ties down and cut them off cleanly, all in one squeeze. I agree; when it comes to fuel lines, I'd want them secure. But look at new cars. Those cable ties are used everywhere. They don't corrode nor cut into the fuel lines like steel hose clamps can, so there are some advantages.
 
localboy":1u9e9oqs said:
There are special tools that really cinch the plastic ties down and cut them off cleanly, all in one squeeze. I agree; when it comes to fuel lines, I'd want them secure. But look at new cars. Those cable ties are used everywhere. They don't corrode nor cut into the fuel lines like steel hose clamps can, so there are some advantages.
Click to expand...

It's probably like or similar to the use of the single spring loaded compression type hose clamps.

They work, just don't seem as secure as regular radiator style clamps.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
OMC, ( Johnson and Evinrude) started using the special 'cable tie' hose clamp in the 1980's. They were mostly used on the very small fuel lines under the hood of the motor.

The problem with the metal screw 'radiator clamp' is that it can 'pinch' the hose and not generate full circle clamping pressure. The 'pinch' can then become an air leak into the fuel system. When the oil injection system called VRO came out, fuel lines leaking air really became a problem, and caused over oiling. That is when OMC started using the 'Snapper' plastic clamps. If correctly sized, and tightened, the 'Snapper' clamp makes a full circle of pressure and reduces the chance or air leaking into the lines. I solved many 'over oiling' and lean running problems on outboard motors by replacing the metal screw clamps with Plastic 'Snapper' clamps.

As a mechanic, my advice is to use the exact clamp used by the manufacturer on fuel lines on the motor. For fuel lines in the boat, follow the USCG requirements for inboard boats. Use type A-1 hose, and long enough hose barbs to apply two metal clamps with the screws on opposite sides of the hose. If there is a problem with an air leak, substitute a plastic Snapper clamp for one of the metal clamps. How tight is right? If a hose turns on the barb, its too loose, and if the rubber is being cut, its too tight.

Do not substitute an ordinary cable tie for the special plastic clamp which has a curved underside at the ratchet end.

Retired outboard mechanic.
 
Sea Wolf":3vixjyzq said:
Chester":3vixjyzq said:
Nice, this is a welcome and overdue improvement.
When I bought new fuel filters (Honda) for the boat the parts guy gave me some cable ties with a concave surface under the head to secure the fuel line. He said their mechanics no longer use metal clamps for this purpose.
Click to expand...

Chester-

Can you get cable ties tight enough to securely hold fuel lines, even if doubled up?

I'd be leery of a leak/fire danger, until someone can prove to me that they're tight enough.

Personally,I'd prefer to trust a threaded Stainless Steel fastender (hose clamp) over a Plastic Ratchet (cable tie), intuitively and mechanically.

Joe. :teeth :thup
Click to expand...

Larry H explained it well. I used pliers and an adjustable wrench to insure the cable tie was snug. I don't think the factory single spring clamp exerts more clamping force. Still, I left the single spring clamps on the hose beyond the barb just in case they might be needed.
 
I used pliers and an adjustable wrench to insure the cable tie was snug. I don't think the factory single spring clamp exerts more clamping force. Still, I left the single spring clamps on the hose beyond the barb just in case they might be needed.
Click to expand...

Good choice to have a spare clamp already on the line!

The cable tie type of clamp can also be tightened by gripping the tail with a needle nose pliers close to the ratchet, and rolling the pliers as if to bend the tail back towards the strap. This rolling action tightens the strap, and as the slack is removed, move the plier tips closer to the ratchet part. After two or three goes, the strap will get tight and the plastic starts to stretch. That is probably tight enough!

Clipping the end with a diagonal plier leaves a sharpened tip that can slash your skin like the point of a knife. I found a manicure clipper that looks kinda like a diagonal cutter, that is flat on one side, and cuts the tail flush with no sharp tip.
 
Hey Larry!

I thank you for your through explanation(s)!

You've explained the marine applications throughly, and I'm convinced you're right!

But it would be interesting to find out what kind of clamping systems they're using on high performance race applications on fuel lines on

Outboard racing motors.

Offshore (inboard) power boats

NASCAR racing applications

NHRA Drag Racing Cars

Formula 1 racing machines

Additional steps to this would be aviation/jet/ military/NASA applications!

Might be able to learn something from a comparative study! :lol:

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Greg,

I have used low profile ties like that. They are very nice. I got them at Fisheries in Seattle! Haven't looked for them there lately, a bag goes a long way.
 
When the oil injection system called VRO came out, fuel lines leaking air really became a problem, and caused over oiling. That is when OMC started using the 'Snapper' plastic clamps. If correctly sized, and tightened, the 'Snapper' clamp makes a full circle of pressure and reduces the chance or air leaking into the lines.
Click to expand...

I remember when I had to bleed my VRO2 System (on the water) and broke the ratchet-clamp, or "Snapper Clamp". I then used a zip-tie because that's all I had.

Next time I saw my OMC (Johnson) Tech he spotted it immediately and gave me the whole nine yards on why the zip was a bad idea.

He insisted that the ratchet-clamp was superior because it gave a uniformly consistent seal where the zip COULD allow air to pass through.

Just as Larry explained above, this would result in an over-oiling condition.

I was a bit skeptical because the zip LOOKED like it was sealing tight, BUT, I relented in the face of my tech's conviction about it.

Ever since I've kept a supply of the OMC Clamps on hand for any fuel/oil related connections.

VRO still running strong at 22 years. :wink
 
Larry-

Thanks! "You da' Man!"

I've seen those hoses on drag boats!

They have had the Nitro Nationals on the Sacramento River at Red Bluff for many years up until now, when the environmentalists objected to backing up the river to form a lake, etc.

Fun to see 6,000-7,000 or more hp light up a 20 foot boat for 1/4 a mile!

Have a great Memorial Day Weekend!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
I've been a network engineer for 20 years and have used thousands of cable ties (also called wire ties, nylon ties, whatever...).

Thing to remember when pulling them super tight is that you may have to remove one of them someday.

It is frustrating trying to cut such a tie when they are pulled super tight and you DON'T want to replace every wire it holds.

I always told my guys to leave enough room for wire-cutters.

Just a thought...
 
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