BayStar Steering Doesn't Want to Steer?

T

True Story

New member
Thought I'd share my experience should someone find their BayStar steering not behaving properly.

We were in the Broughton Islands last summer when the boat refused to turn to the left despite turning the wheel. We were almost 50 miles from the trailer and a third of the way through our vacation so it definitely garnered my (our) attention. I could get the boat to turn left if I rotated the wheel sharply. So, we managed to make it through to the end despite some interesting docking experiences and wondering when we were going to lose the steering completely.

Through some trial and error on Les's part it was determined that the steering cylinder was at fault. Apparently the interior seal inside the cylinder was allowing fluid to bypass. Les replaced the old cylinder (HC4600) which has been discontinued with the new cylinder (HC4645H) now being supplied with the BayStar kit.

Should you suffer from the same affliction, don't bother bleeding the system or disconnecting the auto pilot or start wondering how to dismantle the helm unit.
 
Your sure to like the upgrade Jon. When your talking with Les, ask him where he would install an auto pilot pump should you ever decide to add this to your boat some day. If this is a possibility for you, you could route the hydraulic hoses through this area now to save money buying new hoses (expensive) in the future.
 
True Story

Do you know if this has been an on going problem with the old cylinder [HC4600] and if that is why they switched to the HC4645?

We presently have the BayStar with the HC 4600 and it wouldn't be good to have the same thing happen to us where we are planning to go this spring. Would rather change it out now if the failure you had is more than just bad luck with a routine normal % seal failure.

Thanks for the heads up.

Jay
 
Does the new BayStar cylinder operate the way the SeaStar always has? That being, does the cylinder itself move back and forth on its stationary rod(s) while moving the motor with it, or is it still set up with the single moving rod going through the tilt tube and using the existing drag link to turn the motor? The benefit of the stationary cylinder was that it required less "open" space in the splashwell because the hoses did not move as the motor turned. The huge drawback, however, is that the age-old problem of crud in the tilt tube gumming things up like with a cable system is still lurking.

Looking at the pictures on their website, it looks like it has been changed to work in the same manner as the SeaStar. OG and I tried to find a boat at the SBS with the BayStar on it but were unsuccessful. Now I am wondering if some of them I merely glanced at might have been with the new cylinder and just looked like the SeaStar.
 
Tyboo

The cylinder is stationary with ours and it does look like the old crud in the tube is a continuing problem. I've been a lot more careful about greasing what I can. Our old cable system froze up at the tilt tube shortly after our 2004 Alaska trip and had just replaced it before deciding to go with hydraulic.

If its been changed I don't know if the new cylinder will work with twins. Twins make the switch over much for difficult.

Jay
 
Mike-

I also looked on the BayStar/SeaStar website and read and saw the same as you did.

However, under their FAQ"S the same statement was made as before to the effect that the BAYSTAR system is intended for "small" outboards of 150 hp or less, and not compatible with multiple steering stations or autopilots.

I could not find any explanation of the reasons for such, however.

Joe.
 
Joe

I called BayStar before installation of hydraulic steering and autopilot. Explained to them the application intended on the 22 c-dory. And they said no problem it will work. Can't remember if they said why they didn't recommend it in the first place or what the reason was if they did. Do know that I couldn't be happier with the Baystar hydraulic steering and Raymarine S1000 autopilot. I just sent it off to be reprogrammed for gps control down to less than 2 mph.

Jay
 
Sea Wolf":37djd6ph said:
However, under their FAQ"S the same statement was made as before to the effect that the BAYSTAR system is intended for "small" outboards of 150 hp or less, and not compatible with multiple steering stations or autopilots.

I could not find any explanation of the reasons for such, however.

Joe.
Click to expand...

The reason is the system pressure. That is also why the Bay is so much cheaper to install than the Sea. The Bay uses 1/4" plastic tubing with compression or some other type of field fit connectors. The Sea requires pressed fittings and the hoses must be ordered the right length and are costly. From talking to Les, I think they may use some proprietary type of fitting as well, which rules out running down to the local NAPA to crimp your own hoses. The Sea helm pump produces higher pressures and is built accordingly, whereas the Bay helm is lighter duty and a lot cheaper to make. The internal valving in the Sea helm is likely much more sophisticated as well which it allows it to exist and function in a system that has multiple pressure inputs.

There are probably some liability considerations for the manufacturer, too. I think the SeaStar system is overkill for an outboard, but everything in a hydraulic system must be rated to handle the highest pressure it will see plus the safety factor. To make the helm withstand whatever the end user might reasonably tie into the hydraulic circuit (like an electric autopilot pump), they would have to make all the hoses, fittings and cylinders rated to handle the same. Then you got the SeaStar, so just buy it in the first place.
 
My Baystar cylinder is stationary and the piston rod (along with a rod in the tilt tube) move. A drag link moves the motor. I routinely take the rod out of the tilt tube to clean and lube it to avoid freezing up with rust. My brother in law just installed a Baystar system on a 60 hp Merc, and his cylinder moves with the motor, and was the recommended method. There must be a reason for two different methods of actuation. When the cylinder moves, however, there must be room for the hydraulic lines to move too. I like the stationary cylinder much better. By the way, to lube the two zerk fittings on the tilt tube I must remove the rod in the tilt tube to let the cylinder rotate away far enough to get to the zerks. If you were using a flexible hose on the grease gun this might not be needed.
 
I'll second Hunkydory's concern over the HC4600 steering cylinder concerns! I also have the Baystar hydraulic steering system with a HC4600 cylinder and am very happy with it.

Why did Teleflex drop the HC4600 and replace it with the HC4656H? Is there a design problem that is waiting rear it's ugly head at the most inopportune time? Loosing steerage in rough conditions is not just inconvenient, it can be a life or death situation!

Has anyone contacted Teleflex? This one needs to run to ground ASAP!

Jim
 
I thought after installing my new BayStar hyd. steering several years ago, that I was in 1st class shape. Now I do not know after reading these posts. Having your steering go haywire while pulling your anchor in 200' in the Cook Inlet would not be pretty.
Any more info on this problem would be welcomed.

How can I determine what cylinder (part no.) I have on my system???
 
I suppose a call to the manufacture could possibly uncover reasons for discontinuing the earlier steering cylinder. I can say that Les's shop had not seen this situation before and his circle is relatively large.

While I didn't recognize the problem before our trip to the Broughton's, in retrospect, I believe now the problem was degenerative in nature. I recall on occasion, noticing a lack of steering response while on plane. I'd look back at the engine and turn the wheel aggresively back and forth and the boat steered fine. I chalked it up to my imagination and carried on. Now, I realize that the problem only occured while making fine steering adjustments some of the time, with the seal failure eventually evolving to an unacceptable condition.

I wanted to expound on my earlier post as I'd be suprised based on my experience, if anyone would ever experience a catastrophic failure without the warning signs as I have tried to explain.
 
True Story

Sure appreciate the follow up. I think your explanation of warning signs and talk with Les puts us back to acceptable risk. If someone doesn't beat me to it might still put in a call to Baystar. There's so many things that could go bad that if you dwell on them leaving to the far places could be put on hold. So cover what you can and buy a Sat Phone if you can afford it. Either we'll continue to go for it.

Have spent most of day programming chart routes in two different systems for next trip.

Jay
 
Jon - CLou":nl5egzdb said:
Thanks for the info Tim. Tomorrow we're going over to E.Q. and talk to Les about the Baystar steering. Darn cable steering had to go.
Click to expand...

Ohh Man ... - I wish you guys would quit bothering Les, I'll never get my boat rigged.

Tom
 
hhhmmmmmm
My Baystar cylinder was leaking and froze up. I had it replaced with a new one last week. Eric said this one is better than the original. Hope he's right. I would hate to have to replace this thing every 5 years.
 
My next door neighbor has a 26' deep vee with twin 150's. The other day his Sea Star stirring quit right before leaving for a kingfish tournment. It would turn to starboard fine but not turn to port at all. The wheel would turn but the engines didn't move. We cracked open the bleeder screw on the port side and a little air escaped and the steering returned to normal. The boat is fairly new and apparently the system wasn't completly bleed before delivery to him. This simple fix may save someone some grief.
 
Back
Top