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BATTERY CHARGER: DUMB QUESTION OF THE DAY
- Thread starter Patrout
- Start date
nomadcruiser53
New member
You can also get the small solar panels that keep your batteries charged all the time. Pretty handy. Dave
matt_unique
New member
Keep in mind, you should test the system to be sure it works. My brand new Tomcat was wired wrong and the AC charger did not work. The dealer fixed the wiring and I verified it works now.
The only way to test is with a multimeter right on the batteries. Measure the voltage of your batteries without any charging, connect the shore power, flip the AC power switch, flip the switch for the AC charger, then test each battery to read the charge. It should obviously read higher than before you connected the shore power and flipped the switches to verify it is working correctly.
You should do the same to verify your battery charging from the engines. Never switch the battery selector switches with the engines running. Take a test read without engines running, start the engine, test the charge on the correct battery. Shut off engine, switch battery selector switch, and repeat test to make sure your engines can draw power from and thus return the charge once started.
The only way to test is with a multimeter right on the batteries. Measure the voltage of your batteries without any charging, connect the shore power, flip the AC power switch, flip the switch for the AC charger, then test each battery to read the charge. It should obviously read higher than before you connected the shore power and flipped the switches to verify it is working correctly.
You should do the same to verify your battery charging from the engines. Never switch the battery selector switches with the engines running. Take a test read without engines running, start the engine, test the charge on the correct battery. Shut off engine, switch battery selector switch, and repeat test to make sure your engines can draw power from and thus return the charge once started.
Capital Sea
New member
Never switch the battery selector switches with the engines running
Please explain.
Basically, the alternator is an AC generator, which is pretty much unregulated. There are diodes in a rectifier which change the AC current DC current, and this goes to the battery, which is charged. If there is no battery (resistance) in the circuit, the diodes will be damaged by high voltage spikes. So, you either must have a "Make before Break" circuit--so that there is always the resistance of the batteries. Or you can have an alternator field current dissrupt switch, and that stops the production of the AC current--so no damage can occur to the battery. There must be a field current for an alternator to generate electricity.
Some battery switches have either "Make before break" or a field current disconnect. There is also a "Zap Stop" connector, which will prevent this damage as an add on to the alternator. All of these make it save to switch--but unless you know that these protections are present, there is the danger. You can check for the make before break with a digital volt Ohm meter. Many switches identify that they are safe.
Some battery switches have either "Make before break" or a field current disconnect. There is also a "Zap Stop" connector, which will prevent this damage as an add on to the alternator. All of these make it save to switch--but unless you know that these protections are present, there is the danger. You can check for the make before break with a digital volt Ohm meter. Many switches identify that they are safe.
Capital Sea
New member
Thanks. My system which switches on demand and can also be switched automatically has this safeguard built in. Your detailed response was much more informative.
So if I have this right, we need to protect the diodes. "Make before Break" refers to what? I assume "break" refers to breaking the contacts, thus disconnecting the battery or alternator, however you look at it; but what does the "make" refer to? If it's connecting (make) one battery before the other is disconnected (break), so there is always a load, how do you every get to "off"?
Jay
Jay
Yeah, I'm kind of confused too. We have a Perko Switch with 1-ALL-2-OFF. How can I tell if I can change the switch while the engines are running? I don't think the switch is the "Field Disconnect" type. Does that mean I must turn off the engines before switching?
Also, I've read that I should be starting the motor with the switch in the 1 position. I've been starting in the ALL position and running the boat in ALL. If I were to start in 1 and don't have Field Disconnect, would that mean I would have to turn off the engine to switch it to ALL?
Sorry if it seems that I hijacked the thread but I think it's all related.
Peter
Also, I've read that I should be starting the motor with the switch in the 1 position. I've been starting in the ALL position and running the boat in ALL. If I were to start in 1 and don't have Field Disconnect, would that mean I would have to turn off the engine to switch it to ALL?
Sorry if it seems that I hijacked the thread but I think it's all related.
Peter
Capital Sea
New member
The issue is really one for the outboard right. If I were you, and had a shop you trust to do your work, as I do, then I would be asking them this question. With so many system options out there the only way to be sure your questions are answered in proper context with how your boat is set up is to explore the questions with one who knows your boat. IMO
marvin4239
New member
It hasn't been mentioned but I've been told that even if you have the make before break switch you should never turn the switch to off with the engine running. I think this can blow the diodes also.
Yes, Make before Break, means that when the contact is moved to the next position (if it connects a battery--ie from 1 to 2 or 1 to ALL, OR ALL TO 1 ETC.) the circuit remains intact and there is always a battery present, thus the high voltage spikes will not damage the alternator diodes.
That is correct, you should never turn the switch to "Off" with the engine running.
You can check the continuity of the switch with no battery connected. Put the VOM on conductivity, and one of the leads on "1" and the other on "2", as you turn the switch between then the buzzer will sound momentary as you switch (and if you are on Ohms setting it will drop to less than one Ohm). This indicates that there is flow of current between the two terminals as you switch and it is briefly in "all" positon as you switch.
Starting and running on "All" is a good idea if you have fully charged batteries, and don't know about the switch. Just switch to the house bank (assuming this is "2") when you anchor or stop for any peroid--and save "1" for start, since there will be no power used and the starting battery will be fully charged. If you have a switch which will allow switching without damage, then you can start on 1, then switch to "all".
The beauty of the VSR is that they do this automatically--and let the starting battery charge before switching to "all"--
That is correct, you should never turn the switch to "Off" with the engine running.
You can check the continuity of the switch with no battery connected. Put the VOM on conductivity, and one of the leads on "1" and the other on "2", as you turn the switch between then the buzzer will sound momentary as you switch (and if you are on Ohms setting it will drop to less than one Ohm). This indicates that there is flow of current between the two terminals as you switch and it is briefly in "all" positon as you switch.
Starting and running on "All" is a good idea if you have fully charged batteries, and don't know about the switch. Just switch to the house bank (assuming this is "2") when you anchor or stop for any peroid--and save "1" for start, since there will be no power used and the starting battery will be fully charged. If you have a switch which will allow switching without damage, then you can start on 1, then switch to "all".
The beauty of the VSR is that they do this automatically--and let the starting battery charge before switching to "all"--
One more thing;
Outboard motors usually do not have a field circuit or coil in the alternators. Outboards have a series of permanent magnets in the flywheel and generate current when the flywheel turns. This current generation is continuous if the motor is running, and is an AC current, as Bob mentioned. That AC current is rectified to DC current and may be regulated.
If the voltage 'tops out' at 13.6-14.0 or so after charging the batteries(motor running), then it is regulated. If the voltage continues to climb above 13.6-14.0 after the motor has run for some time, then the alternator is NOT regulated. If you have a non-regulated alternator in your motor, you will need to turn on some load(running lights, stereo, etc) to control the voltage. The older outboards from the early 1990's were mostly non-regulated. It is not good for lights, batteries, or electronics, to let the voltage climb into the (15.0-16.0) or higher range.
Outboard motors usually do not have a field circuit or coil in the alternators. Outboards have a series of permanent magnets in the flywheel and generate current when the flywheel turns. This current generation is continuous if the motor is running, and is an AC current, as Bob mentioned. That AC current is rectified to DC current and may be regulated.
If the voltage 'tops out' at 13.6-14.0 or so after charging the batteries(motor running), then it is regulated. If the voltage continues to climb above 13.6-14.0 after the motor has run for some time, then the alternator is NOT regulated. If you have a non-regulated alternator in your motor, you will need to turn on some load(running lights, stereo, etc) to control the voltage. The older outboards from the early 1990's were mostly non-regulated. It is not good for lights, batteries, or electronics, to let the voltage climb into the (15.0-16.0) or higher range.
Larry is correct for the small and midsize engines. I left this out for simplification. However the ranger tugs do have alternators which are simlar to the automotive. I know that the larger Mercs use the belt driven Arco alternator, (Arco is in Pensacola from us, and I am friends with the owner)
I am not sure, but some of the other larger outboards may also be running integrated alternators vs the magnets/ coils The Suzuki's go up to 54 amps--and The larger Hondas are running a 90 amp alternator. These larger alternators do have regulators--and in the Suzuki large blocks they are water cooled.
In my experience with Yahama 115, Honda 130 and Suzuki 150's the voltage has not gone beyond 14.4 volts, so that the newer engines do seem to have much better regulation than the older outboards. I have run all of these engines, with a fully charged battery to start with, and after running over 8 hours constantly, with minimal current draw (depth finder, VHF on receive and chart plotter, I have yet to see voltage over 14.5 volts...it would be better on the battery if I were to see only 13.7 volt when running long times (as I did with adjustable regulators on my cruising boats). As Larry says, some of the older and smaller engines do develope excessive voltages (which will cook gel cell batteries).
I am not sure, but some of the other larger outboards may also be running integrated alternators vs the magnets/ coils The Suzuki's go up to 54 amps--and The larger Hondas are running a 90 amp alternator. These larger alternators do have regulators--and in the Suzuki large blocks they are water cooled.
In my experience with Yahama 115, Honda 130 and Suzuki 150's the voltage has not gone beyond 14.4 volts, so that the newer engines do seem to have much better regulation than the older outboards. I have run all of these engines, with a fully charged battery to start with, and after running over 8 hours constantly, with minimal current draw (depth finder, VHF on receive and chart plotter, I have yet to see voltage over 14.5 volts...it would be better on the battery if I were to see only 13.7 volt when running long times (as I did with adjustable regulators on my cruising boats). As Larry says, some of the older and smaller engines do develope excessive voltages (which will cook gel cell batteries).
Bob,
Yes, I was talking about small to mid size outboards. Interesting that Mercury now uses belt driven alternators.
I agree that if voltages do not rise above 14.5 that there is a regulator. I does seem that a steady voltage of 14.5 would 'cook' the battery eventually.
Larry H
Yes, I was talking about small to mid size outboards. Interesting that Mercury now uses belt driven alternators.
I agree that if voltages do not rise above 14.5 that there is a regulator. I does seem that a steady voltage of 14.5 would 'cook' the battery eventually.
Larry H