Balsa core problems

Waterball.
I have an 1985 Angler which has some Balsacore in the transon. The water got in from the Two drain holes, I removed the brass thru-hulls and took about a coffee can of mush (basa-core) out of each hole. I than cut a larger round hole on the inside higher up and run a vacuum cleaner on blow for a couple days to dry it out.

I than filled the voids by pouring resin with a filler to fill the voids. I than redrilled the one inch drain holes and installed new brass thru-hauls, they will never leak again.

You may want to check your's. May be the source of your problem?

We have a C-Dory dealer in town who has sold C-Dory's for 25 years and he tells me that their is no balsa-core in the bottom or the deck of the early C-Dory's, only resin impregnated marine plywood covered with fiberglass.

I have drilled holes in the forward deck and it is solid plywood . If your thru-hulls are leaking, water could migrate between the fiber-glass and plywood,then freeze and pop the fiberglass.

Very easy to remove the thru-haul and check.


Jack on C-Otter.
 
Thanks for the advice I'll have to check the drain plug out to see if there is any water penetration there. BTW I have only one drain plug, did they change to two plugs at some point? Are you talking about the drain holes from the fuel tank area? The boat was repainted 3years ago and I'm guessing any damage there would have been noticed at that time. The damage to the deck was what appeared to be a crack maybe caused from a fishing weight that dropped on deck? At any rate the glass aft of it wasn't damaged and in good shape. Fairly certain I caught it before it could do much damage.
Shaun
 
Waterball.
My 1985 has two thru-hulls, Port and Starboard in the corners of the transon. I have to install two plugs before launch. Only forgot once ,however it was still on the trailer.

My son-in-law is in the wood flooring busness and I used his moisture-meter on the transon to find the water. Jack on Sea Otter.
 
"SHALJE" had the problem of loose floor cleats on the side of the bulging starboard tank. Factory sent a new tank which dealer reinstalled. One season and the new tank also bulged and tore the screws out.
I was concerned with the holes in the bottom. The screws on the non bulging port tank cleats were also coming loose. After talking with the dealer and the factory a new tank was sent and redesign took place. I took out all cleats and found some water and flaky balsa. I opened all holes to 1/4" and used compressed air and time to dry them out. All holes were filled with an epoxy called Git-Rot (West Marine).
To support the tanks I used poplar 1X4s. The poplar is hard, strong, and not too heavy. Also less expensive than oak. 2 coats of spar urethane were applied to all wood.
The mainstay of the system is a piece that runs across the bottom of the forward end of the tanks. The ends were cut and shaped to fit snugly between the gunwales behind the foam-filled sidewalls that I believe are unique to the CD19. This prevents forward tank movement. Because of the dished boat bottom water in the cockpit is not restricted from going to the bilge pump.
The original seaboard was reattached to this board and to where it was attached to the gunwale.
To prevent lateral movement poplar cleats extending to the bottom (to add support to the long crosspiece) were shaped to form a simple joint that holds two pieces of poplar extending to the transom. Another piece of poplar holds these pieces in place at the transom. Good support and easy disassembly were both important design considerations.
Everything is solidly in place and a water test will come soon. Don't see any reason to believe that it won't work.
The only drawback that I can see is the crosspiece restricting access to the area between the tanks. That piece, however will also keep things from sliding forward.
In the process the floor rings for the back curtain were removed and the holes treated the same as the cleat holes. Water and flaky balsa were found here, too. When the ring on the bottom of the port sidewall was removed. lots of water spewed out. Didn't fill those holes. Probably should open them up and create a drain.
Feel much better about the boat now that the floor is hole-free. It probably would have lasted long enough for an old guy like me but I'm hoping the sons and grandkids can enjoy her for years to come.
By the way, SHALJE is a 2003 CD 19. Bought her new in the spring of 2003.
 
We are now laminating the chocks to the deck of the 22. These chocks hold the fuel tanks firmly in place. The polyteak bulkhead is then fastened to the front side of the chock leaving a space between the bulkhead and the tank for any possible expansion. There are no longer any fasteners penetrating the deck. i will post some photos in the near future.

There was also mention of water intrusion around the drain plug and transom well drains on some older boats. We not only seal this area very well but we also changed to a high density foam core in the transom a little over a year ago. Balsa remains the core of choice for the hull of our C-Dory boats.

Thank you,

Jeff
 
Thanks, Jeff.

That sounds like a good solution, and leaving the room for expansion makes a whole lot of sense.

Polyteak, huh? That a whole bunch more nautical sounding than StarBoard.

Pictures are always welcome, and in most cases, anticipated. You can post to any of the albums in the Tech Forum that you feel would be the best fit. Or, we can set up an album for your use. I also understand that one of the first 22s with the new retaining chocks is going to one of our taller members here, so we can bug him for pictures soon.

Now get back to work, because the Beer Guys are getting antsy.
 
Quote from TyBoo:
I also understand that one of the first 22s with the new retaining chocks is going to one of our taller members here, so we can bug him for pictures soon.
Click to expand...

Well, there have been occasions that I have hit my head, but, other than those occasions I haven't been the butt of many tall jokes -- after all, I'm only 6'-1" and can usually negotiate under doorways and such. Even the weather seems similar up here!

I haven't worked with photos on my computer... yet. Don't have a digital camera yet either. But I do have one of those all-in-one copier-scanner-fax type critters on my desk. If I haven't already had too many of those prior occasions, I should be able to figure out a way to get some pics up.

Judging from this thread, it looks like the factory has done an outstanding job responding to customer feedback! And when you consider how busy they have been, Wow! Great to know that my new boat will be receiving the new setup.

Corwin
 
You got that right! If all goes according to plan, David will have a couple of days and we will have all of about four hours to put stuff on board for the Lopez weekend!


TyBoo":2dau0su9 said:
Thanks, Jeff.

Now get back to work, because the Beer Guys are getting antsy.
Click to expand...
 
This balsa core concern is also my biggest problem with the boat. I was convinced that the factory and dealers knew how to deal with it, but I have not seen any effort anywhere on my boat to properly seal the core penetrations. It is well documented here and elsewhere the simple precaution of removing a doughnut of core and filling it with thickened epoxy will maintain the water and structural integrity of the core. Of the many penetrations I have investigated, even below the waterline, it was simply drilled and and given a shot of sealant, period. The foredeck cleat was overtightened and crushed the core. In the bilge area of the 25, the limber holes that connect the multple compartments are not sealed and show bare wood coring. This is a problem because the hatches will always leak and there is always water sloshing around the aluminum fuel tank. How the F can the factory let this pass? Jeff told me I should consider a camper top to shield the deck! The response that the inevitable water intrusions only rot the boat a little bit, do not make me happy about spending this much money on a prototype. As to letting the factory or the dealer effect repairs, no thanks. To say that I have had buyers remorse is an understatement.
 
I am sorry to hear this, especially that things have not been resolved and that you have buyer's remorse - I DON'T think your story is typical...I don't know how C-Dory let a boat go out with those defects as documented in your photos. As our second boat, we will be looking our CD25 over a little more thoroughly before we pull out of the parking lot than we did the first time with our CD22. But I think the suggestion that all through-hull penetrations need to be seated in epoxy is not correct (Les?), and a lot of little things are readily correctible, like the drain hose. Still, it does give a person pause.


Minnow":72v4v04s said:
This balsa core concern is also my biggest problem with the boat...[snip]... To say that I have had buyers remorse is an understatement.
Click to expand...
 
Minnow:

Fully understand -- a lot of money for a rotted boat right away, no matter how small the rot.

When I got my boat home, after having read all I could and been looking at them for over 10 years, I checked for water in the bow guard (it had it -- screws put in to deep (a well known problem) -- took them out -- dried it -- sealed every screw with JB Weld, and then took a fingerful and went the whole length of each mating surface of the brass guard and sealed the edges completely. About that time someone posted they'd found water in the fwd cabin. I took the fwd deck hatch out of the cabin. Water in there? Yep. Dried that out -- filled it completely with salt -- at least if I get any more water in there it will turn to brine and preserve the wood rather than rot it (old sailing ship trick). I then went around and re-sealed every through hull and screw-hole I could get to from both sides.

It took a full day of my time and a boatload of water off my mind . . .

These are wonderful boats that will do what no others will do, but as always, there's room for improvement at the factory.

Good luck!
 
Minnow,

I have a 1991 22 cruiser and I installed my own gas tanks when the boat was new. I just used a marine sealer in the screw holes and under the mounting flanges. Last year I removed the tanks and checked the balsa. No rot was found. I reinstalled the tanks with marine sealer (3M 4200). The side grain of the balsa core is fairly resistant to water intrusion. I am not worried about this, and my boat is 14 years old.

If you are worried, pull each screw and squirt some 3M 4200(for screws to be removed later) or 3M 5200(for screws that will not be removed later) into the screw holes and reinstall. I wouldn't use silicone based sealers.

For complete sealing of any exposed core, I would use West System epoxy to coat the edges.

I hope you can resolve your problems so you can get on with the enjoyment of your new boat.
 
Larry asked how the screw repair went. Seems fine so far. I only fixed the one really loose screw since I was in a hurry to get on the water for the salmon season opener. I described earlier how I enlarged the hole, cleaned out the area, dried it, and filled the hole with epoxy. My boat will be out of its slip for the month of June since we'll be out of the country. When I return, I plan to epoxy all the holes and reinsert the screws.
 
Gary and others,

Here are a couple tricks I learned about using epoxy and screws when I attended a Gougeon Brothers (west System) professional boat builder repair school for three days in Bay City, MI.

I prefer the West System epoxy with a filler about the consistency of peanut butter. To make future removal of the screw easier. spray the screw with Pam (spray-on non-stick for cooking) and then insert it into the wet epoxy. It will come out like a charm.

If you have already put the screw without Pam as a release agent, place the tip of a soldering iron, or woodburning tool on the head of the screw for a short while, which will soften the epoxy enough to release it.

Whenever I have added fitting to my boats (deck plates for water intake, etc) I have always drilled oversize holes and gone with the West System epoxy and filler. The larger size gives much more purchase and the epoxy effectively seals the hole from water damage.

West System has what they call a Maxi Pack which has enough gear and stuff to make six small repairs. It's in every tool kit I have.

Heading to Seattle from Cleveland to see our boat in the factory on the 13th!

Nick
Valkyrie
 
Pat , to clarify my last post, I'm not proposing to bed everything in epoxy, but to seal the core first, then bed the screw or fitting with 4200 or other appropriate sealant. West system suggests to bed major load bearing fittings in epoxy and that makes perfect sense, but the goal in my case is to keep the core dry at all reasonable costs.
I have a friend in my yacht club with a CD22, and he used this past off-season to pull all fittings and screws in the cored areas and epoxy seal the core. Is this overkill? Not if you want to keep the boat a long time.
Am I shooting myself in the foot by speaking up, if I decide to dump this boat? Maybe.
 
I know alot of sailors that all do the oversize hole, fill with epoxy and then redrill smaller hole trick. Because they have lots of equipment mounted to the cabin roof, and alot of the sailboats use wood in the construction. I t definatly takes time but seems worth it with a wood cored boat. Big investment to let rot. More and more boat companies are changing to other core materials, because of water intrusion. And even Cdory has changed their transom. And I am astounded if the factory did tell you to get a canvas for the problem. Doesen't seem on par with what I've heard about them. But I would be pretty upset too, after buying a new 25 to be told that I have to buy a canvas to cover up a flaw in the construction. But it seems like taking the time to drill the oversize holes should take care of your problem if you decide to keep the boat. If not there are alot of choices these days with no wood construction, if thats now high on your list of priorities. Actually I believe the skagit orcas made by C Dory are no wood. But a whole different animal as far as boats go. Good luck and I hope you find a good solution that you will be happy with.

Sark
 
Hi folks,
After reading the thread about bulging tanks I checked mine to find that they had bulged and pulled the screws out of the cockpit floor. The batteries were also secured to the cockpit floor (between the tanks) with battery strap cleats resulting in 8 more potential core exposures.There was no rot in the holes. I drilled all the holes out (20 in total) and filled them with Adhesive Methods & Technology's 7540AB adhesive and used the same product to glue the StarBoard cleats back to the cockpit floor. It has worked well and was not difficult to do. The trade off is no screw holes in the core but no easy removal of the now permanent StarBoard tank cleats.
Mike 'Levity"
 
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