flapbreaker
New member
Just wondering since I'm new to all this if a person should invest in a carbon monoxide alarm if a person is going to sleep in their dory with the stove on or is this not a problem? Thanks.
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Any problems with carbon manoxide with wallas stove?
- Thread starter flapbreaker
- Start date
Flapbreaker,
Never a bad idea and relatively cheap insurance. California thinks enough of the problem to begin requiring CO Warning stickers at the helm and on the transom, mainly because of accidental deaths of people playing around the stern when moored in areas with very little natural ventilation, like very small coves and grottoes at the lakes. Not necessarily from the engines, but often from generator exhaust.
A friend of mine installed one in his V-berth just for safety and the silly thing kept going off. He thought it was a malfunction and replaced it. The replacement went off. He discovered an exhaust leak in his gen in the engine compartment that was allowing CO to move forward to the berth.
Since all of us use outboards, the chance of an engine generated source is small. However, the Wallace Stove or one of the portable generators some are using could be a source.
For divers, even small amounts of CO is dangerous as it adheres to red blood cells and reduces exchange of both nitrogen and oxygen. I'm taking extra precautions to eliminate any chance of picking up CO at my compressor intake.
And I'm definitely installing a sensor/alarm forward.
Scaley
Never a bad idea and relatively cheap insurance. California thinks enough of the problem to begin requiring CO Warning stickers at the helm and on the transom, mainly because of accidental deaths of people playing around the stern when moored in areas with very little natural ventilation, like very small coves and grottoes at the lakes. Not necessarily from the engines, but often from generator exhaust.
A friend of mine installed one in his V-berth just for safety and the silly thing kept going off. He thought it was a malfunction and replaced it. The replacement went off. He discovered an exhaust leak in his gen in the engine compartment that was allowing CO to move forward to the berth.
Since all of us use outboards, the chance of an engine generated source is small. However, the Wallace Stove or one of the portable generators some are using could be a source.
For divers, even small amounts of CO is dangerous as it adheres to red blood cells and reduces exchange of both nitrogen and oxygen. I'm taking extra precautions to eliminate any chance of picking up CO at my compressor intake.
And I'm definitely installing a sensor/alarm forward.
Scaley
Certainly an alarm is an excellent Idea. The stove is vented oustide the cabin, but still there could be a leak. We do not sleep with the stove on--when in cold weather, we run the stove until bedtime and then crawl in the sleeping bags to keep warm. This has been a rule for me, with one exception which was a Cal 46 with a circulating hot water heating system--I did not leave heaters on a night.
A couple of things for heat at night. Usually if we are spending a night on board, we're in a marina and have shore power. In that situation, I use a small electric heater from West Marine - I like it better than the Wallas for this use, as I can direct the heat simply by moving the unit and I don't have to worry about CO, fuel etc. I also leave it on in the boat on a very low setting during winter to prevent freeze ups. This type of space heater can be set to keep the temp just or a little above freezing - most std. home space heaters don't have a temp setting below about 55F. I use the Wallas mostly for heat when I'm fishing not when I'm moored. Of course if you intend to sleep anchored out, the electric heat option won't work.
The other thing I bought that I really like is a couple of 12V electric blankets. These are a little short to fully cover one from head to toe but they do a great job of pre-warming the bed when placed under another blanket for 15-30 mins. They draw 3 amps but run on a timer and can be set to run for I think 15 and 30 mins. They can be re-set to run another x-mins if one is too cold. I can route two cords behind our heads to the 12V outlets on the dash (we have two). It's not ideal for two, but is manageable. It's great on the starboard side of the v-berth since that cord is not in anyone's way. If I add another 12V outlet it will be on the port side of the dash. Bottom line for me is that I use these to heat up the v-berth and rarely need to hit the re-set button to stay cozy all night in 45-50 degree weather on the water, with the blanket beneath another layer of fleece. Also good for pre-heating a sleeping bag in colder weather and keeping the wife warm when just cruising around without the wallas blasting.
The other thing I bought that I really like is a couple of 12V electric blankets. These are a little short to fully cover one from head to toe but they do a great job of pre-warming the bed when placed under another blanket for 15-30 mins. They draw 3 amps but run on a timer and can be set to run for I think 15 and 30 mins. They can be re-set to run another x-mins if one is too cold. I can route two cords behind our heads to the 12V outlets on the dash (we have two). It's not ideal for two, but is manageable. It's great on the starboard side of the v-berth since that cord is not in anyone's way. If I add another 12V outlet it will be on the port side of the dash. Bottom line for me is that I use these to heat up the v-berth and rarely need to hit the re-set button to stay cozy all night in 45-50 degree weather on the water, with the blanket beneath another layer of fleece. Also good for pre-heating a sleeping bag in colder weather and keeping the wife warm when just cruising around without the wallas blasting.
To those that choose to not use their Wallas Stove/heaters as thet sleep, I respect your decision. I myself carry a Pelonis ceramic heater that brags that it will not even ignite tissue-paper if it comes in contact. I always use it when I have shore-power. Unfortunately, I live for anchoring out. Consequently, I need that Wallas working while I sleep. It is a spendy, high maintence item but, to me, it enables the C-Dory to live up to my loftiest expectations.
For those who are concerned about the actual level of Carbon Monoxide there is a very good article about the home type detectors in private airplanes--where C O poisoining is a very real possibilty:
http://avweb.com/news/aeromed/186016-1.html
This article also goes into the sensitivity of the detectors.
As noted Carbon monoxide is cummulative as it binds to the hemoglobin the the Red blood cells. Long expose to low levels can be as much of a problem as short exposure to high levels. After Hurricane Dennis we had at least 4 deaths in Pensacola due to generators and carbon monoxide.
http://avweb.com/news/aeromed/186016-1.html
This article also goes into the sensitivity of the detectors.
As noted Carbon monoxide is cummulative as it binds to the hemoglobin the the Red blood cells. Long expose to low levels can be as much of a problem as short exposure to high levels. After Hurricane Dennis we had at least 4 deaths in Pensacola due to generators and carbon monoxide.
flapbreaker
New member
Adeline":2vswcx84 said:I need that Wallas working while I sleep. It is a spendy, high maintence item but, to me, it enables the C-Dory to live up to my loftiest expectations.
Since I don't yet have a C-dory what is it about the wallace stove that makes it high maintenance?
That's very persuasive, Bob, where can I get one of these units?For those who are concerned about the actual level of Carbon Monoxide there is a very good article
flapbreaker":387pezzn said:Adeline":387pezzn said:I need that Wallas working while I sleep. It is a spendy, high maintence item but, to me, it enables the C-Dory to live up to my loftiest expectations.
Since I don't yet have a C-dory what is it about the wallace stove that makes it high maintenance?
I don't know - I've had mine for 3 year, run plain diesel in it and have never had a single problem or need to maintain it. Others often run on "Kleen Heat" which produces less odor, supposedly burns cleaner and is supposedly less problematic than diesel. However. it seems to me that there is a correlation between those who report problesm and those who use Kleen Heat as fuel. It could simply be that those who use clean heat tend to use their Wallas more than those who do not. None-the-less, I'm sticking with my cheap old diesel.
I haven't had any maintance problems with my Wallas stove--use kerosene in it.
As for the CO detectors--the article mentions two which read a low levels and are a bit pricey--in comparison to the household or boating type of units. The CO experts is about $130 and the Kiddie is about $250, compare with some units at Home Depot for about $15. The more expensive units measure very low levels and work better for cummulative carbon monoxide poisoning--such as might affect a diver.
The household standard level for C O toxity was actually increased several years ago--not because there was less risk, but because paramedics and utilities companies were getting lots of calls about detectors going off!
Unfortunately detectors have a limited life span--about 6 years is all I would trust a unit--and I have one which failed after 3 years. So these should be replaced at regular intervals.
As for sources of the CO Experts or Kidie units, put the model numbers in Google search engine.
I have seen several deaths in people who have driven in cars and had gradual carbon monoxide poisioning. This is not usually a problem in outboard boats--but has been a problem especially in Houseboats where generator exhaust came into the cabins (especially on Lake Powell). Although diesel engines give less C O than gas engines, but diesel stoves will produce sufficient carbon monoxide to kill--enclosed kerosene space heaters are cause of death in about 20 people a year.
As for the CO detectors--the article mentions two which read a low levels and are a bit pricey--in comparison to the household or boating type of units. The CO experts is about $130 and the Kiddie is about $250, compare with some units at Home Depot for about $15. The more expensive units measure very low levels and work better for cummulative carbon monoxide poisoning--such as might affect a diver.
The household standard level for C O toxity was actually increased several years ago--not because there was less risk, but because paramedics and utilities companies were getting lots of calls about detectors going off!
Unfortunately detectors have a limited life span--about 6 years is all I would trust a unit--and I have one which failed after 3 years. So these should be replaced at regular intervals.
As for sources of the CO Experts or Kidie units, put the model numbers in Google search engine.
I have seen several deaths in people who have driven in cars and had gradual carbon monoxide poisioning. This is not usually a problem in outboard boats--but has been a problem especially in Houseboats where generator exhaust came into the cabins (especially on Lake Powell). Although diesel engines give less C O than gas engines, but diesel stoves will produce sufficient carbon monoxide to kill--enclosed kerosene space heaters are cause of death in about 20 people a year.