22' Cruiser vs 23' Venture

I had an opportunity to drive a new 23 venture at the Friday Harbor CBGT courtesy of Master Marine dealership, and have a 22' C-Dory so here's my personal take. The venture had a 115HP engine (Suzuki I think) and was really fast (way over 30MPH, very quick off the mark. To me, it had to be very carefully handled at speed and was less stable than my 22 but then I can't go that fast with the twin Honda 40's. I liked the higher transom but other than that the external differences were hard to find. Unless you are intimately familiar with the two boats they look just alike. The whole interior of the 23 was nicely padded and quiet but that means no opportunity to make any modifications without cutting that carefully fitted headliner...a major drawback for me. There was no obvious place to mount radio, compass, stereo, chart storage etc. up high. There was no high shelf. The flat surfaces over the vee-berth entrance and in front of the helm and passenger seats were not functional. They had no rear lip and appeared to be angled slightly down so anything placed there would slide off in any chop. I did not care for the smaller access hatches to storage in the cabin floor, but the flat floor was nice. All in all I found the interior of the 23 prettier but much less functional than that of the 22'.

Just my opinion from a one-time experience.
 
Best Day,

I'll try and get mine on a scale next time I pass one. It's been awhile and it's entirely possible that the boat weighs more now. Problem is, I'm usually headed out to fish and the last thing I want to do is stop. Much easier to do on the way home. :wink:
 
the cape cruiser 23 is a little different from the venture 23 the cc has no vinyl interior parts like the venture also the interior is gel-coated fiberglass like the newer c-dorys also the back windows are a little larger on the venture 23 I do have the shelf above the helm station The inside looks very similar to the c-dory the weight was about 2800--2900 lb this was a quote from the cape cruiser factory back in 2006 .The f115 yamaha will run the boat up to about 35 mph .I have chosen a different prop more for power then speed a 4 blade 13 1/2 with 13pitch better out of the hole and can stay on plane down to abou 10mph This cuts my speed down to about 32mph. As far as the weight of my single axcel trailer it is 860lb with 15 in wheels and 12in brakes . I think the weight of my c-dory has to be at least 2300lb with the windlass, tabs , radios, 2 batteries ,etc. When we tow the c-dory Duck we usually have no water and fuel down to a few gallons . when we get near the launch area i will put in the amount that we need for the weekend . Usually my two 18 gallon tanks on my c-dory only need to filled once every 2 months or so . im hoping the cape cruiser will be as economical ,and so far it has exceeded my expectations with the ride and the gas mileage
 
I test piloted the Master Marine 23' Venture at Coronet Bay on Sunday. I took the boat out through Deception and into Rosario Strait. I was very disappointed in the handling of the boat in any seas above 2'. I couldn't make the boat not bow stear even when down to 7 MPH. It bow steered severely no matter how slow we went or with or without any trim. I spent 5 days the prior week with my friend on his 22' Cruiser and noticed very little of those characteristics. Have any of you experienced this?
 
What does "bow steer" mean?

Warren
 
The only time I get bow steer is with a following sea, full 30 gallon bow water tank, I´m low on fuel and have my oversized trim tabs more than half way down. In this worse case scenario all I have to do is retract my trim tabs to about a quarter way down or less and I´m fine. When I replaced my factory 20 gallon water tank with the 30 gallon bow water tank I was very worried about having too much weight forward. But since the move I have been very pleased with the way the boat handles. It now seems to plane a little more level and cut the chop a little bit easier with out use of the trim tabs.

I have no idea why the boat you tested would behave this way. Maybe with a lightly fueled and loaded boat with a lot of people in the cabin there is too much weight forward. Or it could be that the outboard was lowered to far down pushing the nose down. Did you try raising the outboard? I know the CC never had this problem.

Bill
 
Warren, I think they are referring to the tendency of a boat to want to veer to port or starboard and not cut straight through the water. If you are not trimmed level you tend to do that on a monohull.
 
Boat Show Season is finally over and with it comes the opportunity to demo ride the boats that we have been dragging all over the Southeastern US for the past several months and trying to keep clean.

I had a very nice couple come down from Northern Alabama this past weekend to see and compare three boats we currently have in stock; a 22 Cruiser, 23 Venture and a 2007 23 Cape Cruiser recently taken on consignment. After considering options, amenities and prices they decided they wanted to ride the 23 Venture on Saturday morning.

Saturday turned out to be a glorious, sunny spring day with a light breeze out of the southwest kicking up about a 1' chop on Apalachicola Bay. I must add here that since we took delivery of this boat in January nobody but our technicians have splashed it, (and they weren't talking). The boat is powered by a Suzuki DF150 four stroke that was installed at the factory.

After launching at Scipio Creek we idled down the channel, out onto the mouth of the Apalachicola River proper then into the bay. With the 150 the boat fairly jumped out of the water, steering was solid and responsive (both forwards and backing up) and the ride was nothing short of phenominal. We ventured (no pun intended) a little further into the bay to where the chop was running a foot to a foot and a half and took her up to 27 mph. The difference in the ride and handling of this boat and the 22 Cruiser in the same conditions is nothing short of spectacular! It's quiet, smooth, doesn't pound and I didn't have to use the tabs to force the bow into the wave. At slow speeds it does not bow steer and will be great for what these customers want to use it for, a slow speet trolling boat on the Utah side of the Flaming River Gorge.

I know that most of you here on this site will have no interest in the next part of my story but I just had to see what this boat would do with three people on board heading downstream on a flat river surface with the 150 Suzuki trimmed up. Imagine a smooth, stable, rock-solid ride at 44 MPH...WOW!!! Most of you would never dream about running your C-Dory's that fast but just knowing that it COULD made me grin really big!

The price difference is worth every penny IMHO!

I can't speak to the towing issue as my 2007 Chevy Duramax 2500 4X4 never complains about anything I latch on to her. If I could find a woman that works as hard and is so quiet about it I'd probably marry her!

Oh, by the way...they bought the boat!!!

Charlie Holtom - Wefing's Marine, Inc.
 
Yes, the boat acted very bow heavy. It was low on fuel (approx. 20GL on board) and no water. Even so, in my opinion that's not a good situation and could be conditions reasonable in normal use and shouldn't occur for safe operation. I hope this particular boat gets looked at closely to verify the problem. There were 4 adults aboard of average size. I don't think that was the issue as the dealer stated he and his co-captain had similar issues prior to my wife and I boarding. I'm now looking at a 22' Skagit Orca with a 200HP outboard. I know this boat won't make me wonder about our safety or handling in rough seas. A few bucks in purchase cost and usage vs. what we experienced is worth every penny.
 
dparsons":arjf0zzv said:
Yes, the boat acted very bow heavy. It was low on fuel (approx. 20GL on board) and no water. Even so, in my opinion that's not a good situation and could be conditions reasonable in normal use and shouldn't occur for safe operation. I hope this particular boat gets looked at closely to verify the problem. There were 4 adults aboard of average size. I don't think that was the issue as the dealer stated he and his co-captain had similar issues prior to my wife and I boarding. I'm now looking at a 22' Skagit Orca with a 200HP outboard. I know this boat won't make me wonder about our safety or handling in rough seas. A few bucks in purchase cost and usage vs. what we experienced is worth every penny.
Click to expand...

You couldn't be more incorrect. I've seen more folks get into more trouble with a high perfomance v-hull boat than in anything else. The first time you stuff the boat at speed into the backside of wave when getting pushed by a large following sea I wish you all the best. You may not have been pleased with the perfomance of the particular boat you tested but that does not, by default, make your other choice better. The implication that the Skagit Orca 22 is a safer boat by virtue of it being a Skagit Orca 22 is just not true; it's a just another boat like hundreds of others of the same design and will fare no better or worse that anything else of the same design. Implying that a deep-v design is somehow inherently "safe" is about like telling someone that the "best" car for all around use is a Corvette.

Since I live in and work at Cornet Bay and routinely run Deception Pass I've had an opportunity to test almost anything that floats in those waters; a deep-v hull would be my last choice for running with a heavy following sea into Deception Pass. It takes skill, finesse, and experience to run a performance boat in heavy water conditions, especially down sea. And you can't slow down; that really makes the crew happy...not.
 
My boat is a Cape Cruiser 23 Venture with twin Yamaha 50's. Its hull is identical to the C-Dory 23 Venture. My boat has fewer interior amenities and may therefore be a little lighter than the C-Dory version of the 23 Venture. Whatever the case with initial weight, I have run the boat with a lot of extra weight in it. We did a 2,000 mile Inside Passage trip with two people and enough supplies for weeks (including Alaska Series dinghy, Honda 2000 generator, extra anchor and rode, extra stove fuel, and off-shore life raft.)

Here are a few observations on how the boat does in significant following seas.

1. I've never had a problem with bow steering. In fact, I usually feel more comfortable (mentally and physically) going with with heavy seas, than into them. Maybe it's just out-of sight, out of mind. I do remember my wife asking me once if she should be scared when she couldn't see the sky out the back door. Or maybe it's just the exhilaration of "surfing" that reduces the fear. Be that as it may, I've never buried the bow in the next wave and never felt close to a broach.

2. I adjust my speed to conditions. One of the nice characteristics about these hulls (I have also owned a 16-foot C-Dory) is their ability to maintain control at slower speeds than can a lot of other boats. These relatively light dory style boats are also responsive enough to allow quick throttle adjustments as needed.

3. I know this is slightly heretical to many, but I don't have trim tabs. I prefer moving weight around to balance the boat. I feel it's important to get as close to lateral level as possible when the boat is not moving. Under way, I try not to rely overly on engine trim for bow control. I move weight forward and aft as conditions dictate- both for sea conditions and as fuel and water weight change (the water tank is under the aft passenger seat on my boat). I actually pack with this weight transferring in mind. Two big water proof duffle bags are great for quick weight adjustments. I'm not unalterably opposed to trim tabs. So far, though, I feel more comfortable operating without them. Both trim tabs and hydrofoils have diminishing effect at lower speeds - but see the next item.

4. I just had Permatrims installed. I have to say I love them. We didn't have them on our trip to Alaska, and I never felt like I couldn't control the bow attitude with just weight transfer and engine trim, but these things are really nice. The response to small adjustments is remarkable. I really think they will enhance control in heavy following seas. They are also great for dealing with a strong crosswind. Even when the weight of the boat is balanced, a steady side wind can produce a list when the boat is going at any kind of speed. With the Permatrims, I find I can maintain a more comfortable attitude at a reasonable speed by raising or lower one of my two engines just slightly. I just need to practice quick throttle and trim adjustment with the new set-up to be ready for the next surfing adventure. With the Permatrims on twin engines, I seriously doubt I will ever try trim tabs.
 
Hello,
One of my first posts in 07 It's a done deal now. I hope this helps.
D.D.
 
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