22 cruiser powered with a Honda 50

the new Yami 70 is the same block engine as the 50-60 (60 cu in)engines but I believe it has the VVT and 4valves per cylinder giving it more hp

It looks like a nice engine probably very fuel efficient nice for a 16or 19 but if price was close I would opt for yami 90
 
We have been told that the new 70 is not the same block as anything currently in the Yamaha line up, although looking at the bore / stroke and displacement it matches the 50/60. It weighs about 260 pounds. It also looks much smaller than other 70's on the market, and weighs slightly more than the Yamaha 50/60. I wish I had a 50 or 60 in stock to compare it too.
 
Matt -- A question about gearing for Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki. I have noticed that Suzuki gearing is more aggressive than that of Yamaha and Suzuki. For the 150s:

Honda -- 2.14:1
Yamaha -- 2.00:1
Suzuki -- 2.50:1

Several people here prefer Suzuki for performance. I am wondering why the other manufacturers don't match those gear ratios -- I don't believe the lower gear ratios on the Hondas and Yamahas result in significantly more economy, if reports from the field are to be believed. So what are the tradeoffs here?

Thanks,
Warren
 
Doryman":3rk8xmi6 said:
Matt -- A question about gearing for Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki. I have noticed that Suzuki gearing is more aggressive than that of Yamaha and Suzuki. For the 150s:

Honda -- 2.14:1
Yamaha -- 2.00:1
Suzuki -- 2.50:1

Several people here prefer Suzuki for performance. I am wondering why the other manufacturers don't match those gear ratios -- I don't believe the lower gear ratios on the Hondas and Yamahas result in significantly more economy, if reports from the field are to be believed. So what are the tradeoffs here?

Thanks,
Warren
Click to expand...

Warren-

The Suzuki is actually lower geared than the Honda and Yamaha, which turn the motor 2.14 times and 2 times, respectively, for each revolution of the prop, because the Suzuki must turn it's motor 2.5 times to get it's prop to turn once.

(I guess ratios have to be understood from which side of the numbers your on!)

As I understand it, the advantages of the lower gear ratio on the Suzuki is that the resulting slower turning prop with a higher pitch is

1. less likely to cavitate than a lesser pitched (and probably smaller diameter) prop that is turning faster, and

2. should have less frictional loss, since the speed of the water accros the slower turning blades should be slightly less.

There are probably more advantages and/or trade-offs, too, but these are the two I can think of right now.

I made an analogy once using a row boat. You could row the boat with three foot oars or 8 foot oars.

Either would propel the boat, but the three foot oars would waste a lot of energy splashing around a lot, whereas the longer 8 footers would transfer the
energy more efficiently.

Of course, the analogy is exaggerated to more than the gear ratio differences, but the idea is the same.

Hope this makes sense (and holds water too!)

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
One thing to consider that has not been mentioned here, I think, is the charging capacity of the engine alternators. We run 2006 Honda 40's and are happy with them as engines but each has just a 10 amp charging capacity, 20 amps together. That means the charging the batteries, even underway, will take a very long time. Newer Honda engines, I understand, have higher capacity alternators as do Suzuki and Tohatsu.

Were we to re-power today I would look seriously at charging capacity and weight as critical factors and would strongly consider Suzukis.
 
Love my suzi's. After 5 years and 500 hours, the engine runs flawlessly and always has. Always starts right up no matter how long between starts and it still feels like new!
 
If I were to re-power today it would be with a MD115 Tohatsu TLDI, lighter than Etec and way lighter than any other 115 with the added bones of costing 10 to 20% less than other 115s.

There are a lot of boats in Alaska with Tohatsu TLDI outboards, not many complaints.

Some nice features:

High output Alternator: 37amps at 1,000 rpm, 40amps at WOT
Idle Noise Reduction System
Three Step Trolling Speed Control
MSRP $10,901
 
In Dec 06 I purchased a 2003 22 ft cruiser from Cutter in excellent condition with a 2003 Honda 50. Because of the 50 it was very hard to sell and there was a substantial price reduction. Depending on water conditions on the Chesapeake it would run at 12 to 14 K at almost full throttle around 4500 to 5000 rpm with a max of 5200 when lightly loaded. We liked the boat but it was a little too slow and in 2010 the engine was replaced with a 90 E-Tec and is like a different boat. I try to cruise around 18 K at about 4300 rpm which is usually the maxiumum comfortable speed for a choppy bay with a max of about 24.5 K at 5400 rpm but the bay has not been calm enough to trim it out for max speed. The Evenrude dealer Intercostal Marine in Middle River MD sold the Honda on Ebay for me which made the deal workable. It was well worth the investment and certainly will be much easier to sell if we ever want to.

Jim
 
Nissan/Tohatsu is the sleeper of all the brands . I have sold them in some capacity for 18 or 19 years . Best value in the Outboard world .Oldest outboard maker in Japan.115 is the biggest they make , it's gargantuan in physical size [not weight]but a really good motor and quite efficient and powerful .TLDI fuel injection has been working well since day one of its introduction. They have a newly designed 75 HP that I suspect would be a great C Dory 19 or 22 motor and every bit as efficient as a 4 stroke . Warranty is 3 +1 , the +1 is on the fuel injection.
They also come with the controls[your choice of side or binnacle],tach , aluminum prop, all included .So when you consider price ,you have to consider that in the mix .
Marc
 
Okay, I got to get out today and try this boat out.

It is indeed a boat bought new from Cutter in MD. Hence the 50. It does go, it does plane, and it does cruise. But yes, at a decent planing cruise speed it would wear this motor out over time. Against the insane 47 knot tide we had it would get up to about 13.5 knots at about 5k RPM. With the tide it could do about 16 at 5k RPM. It was most comfortable at about 4k and 12-ish knots.

That said, the engine has been maintained professionally annually with records, the boat has mostly been driven slowly, and in general is in good shape. Dirty from owners lack of mobility, but in good shape and well maintained. With trailer and most options for $20k.

I guess another question is: what is a typical cruising speed and RPM for a 90 on a 22? Most newer outboards I've been around tend to be happiest and quietest around 3500 to 4000 RPM for cruising.

I'm leaning toward buying this for the price but am definitely leaning toward repowering. I could easily use this as-is for this year and repower over the winter.

Thanks again for everyone's comments. I mostly hate to let a decent boat slip away, but I do have some reservations.

JF
 
Make a deal for a replacement... The used 50 will sell like hotcakes... I would, sit, shake, roll over, and beg, for a low time H-50 at a fair price (for my 1966 runabout)...
 
jefff,

I hate to say it but the 50hp is just not going to cut it. We have a Suzuki 90hp and it's a great motor. Plenty of power when we need it, handles heavy loads. We usually like to cruise in (in relatively flat conditions) between 16-20 knots at RPMs up to 4000-4600. At WOT, we can usually go around 26-27 knots (around 30 mph), in flat conditions of course. The operating range at WOT is specfied at 5200-5600 (I believe) and we get to about 5300 RPM.

As you can see, your numbers with the 50hp just don't compare. As others have said, buy another 50hp or trade it in for a 90hp +.

Just my $.02

Peter
 
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