2-90's or 150 + 15 Kicker for 25?

LK and others pose some interesting questions. Such as: "if a 15 and a 20hp kicker weigh the same, unless cost is prohibitive, why not go with the 20?"

Logically it seems to make sense, but it really is not that simple.

I have been playing around with small engines since '46 on motorcycles and '57 on boats. One thing I have found to be pretty consistent through all of the years is that there is no free lunch.

Translated, that means that if a manufacturer makes two engines whose weight, and more importantly displacement are the same, and one motor has a higher horsepower rating than the other, that apparent superiority usually is not found in all conditions and at all rpm's.

It's usually a matter of trade-offs. An engine can be designed and tuned to be most efficient at high rpm's or low, but rarely both.

High horsepower from a given displacement usually comes at the expense of losing some "grunt" down low. Conversely, the same engine design tuned for pushing heavy loads at low speeds will not make as much peak(high rpm)horsepower, but may actually have MORE horsepower and torque at the lower rpm's which it was designed for.

The Honda 15 and the 20 are in fact based on the same 350 cc block. The 20 is tuned more for high rpm, and makes its 20 hp at 5500 rpm. The 15 is tuned more for low end and makes peak hp at 5000 rpm; 500 rpm lower.(this is according to the official '05 Honda Marine booklet)

Essentially, Honda has moved the power peak 500 rpm lower, which also has the effect of having the engine start making usable power 500 rpm sooner on the low end.

I don't have the charts to back me up, but I would wager a fist full of Benjamins that the 15 makes more power at low and medium rpm's than the 20. The 20 would be faster on the top end, on a light boat, but the 15 would be more efficient and more powerful at the lower speeds and rpm's typical of a kicker.

You would need to run the 20 above the 5000 rpm peak of the 15(by using an unusually low-pitched prop) in order to benefit from its higher theoretical horsepower. I'm not prepared to do that.

That's why I chose the 15 over the 20 as my kicker.

The major exceptions to this are engines with variable valve timing, but neither the Honda 15 nor 20 make use of that technology.
 
I don't have the charts to back me up, but I would wager a fist full of Benjamins that the 15 makes more power at low and medium rpm's than the 20. The 20 would be faster on the top end, on a light boat, but the 15 would be more efficient and more powerful at the lower speeds and rpm's typical of a kicker.

No bet, Donald. Precisely why I chose the 75 over the 90 Yamaha and a diesel tow vehicle over a gasser. Low end torque is king.
 
We have had a 25 with the 130 Honda for two years. We don't have many hours on it (less than 200), but we've had zero problems or issues with it. They made a lot of these, and solved any reliability problems a long time ago. Honda advertised the 135 as weighing a little less and being a little more fuel efficient. Our 130 is quiet, fuel efficient and we can run at 25 kts with the boat fully loaded, and full fuel and water tanks. We generally cruise about 15-18 kts depending on conditions.

I didn't know that they still made the 130 after they filled the pipline with the 135/150. You should be able to get a great deal on a 130 if they still have them.
Lyle
 
Which is, I believe, the difference between the Honda 135 and the 150...so-called V-TEC technology.


Phantom":8hq0q0ef said:
The major exceptions to this are engines with variable valve timing, but neither the Honda 15 nor 20 make use of that technology.
 
Just wanted those who have been tracking this thread (since I started it) to know we ordered the CD 25 with a 150 HP main and a 15 HP kicker. I sea trialed a CD 25 with the Honda 150 at the Miami Boat Show. (The story of the sea trial was covered on a separate post.) Anyhow, that really made my decision as the boat ran so beautifully at 4500 rpm, it felt like we were standing still. With out a speedo or GPS on board, I had no idea we were doing 23 mph until I saw the Honda performance report. I figured it had to be less than 20 as the ride was so smooth and relatively quiet, even through the chop and myriad 2'+ boat wakes. Sure, there was a bit of hull noise, but otherwise the ride was smooth. Well, to all who happen to make the MD eastern shore gathering, we will proudly have our new baby there! Thanks again to all who chimed in and offered advice. Our boat should arrive by early May, and we are ready. If we get some "in-vitro" pictures, we'll be sure to post them. Cheers to all!
 
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