1981 C-dory Angler hull # 8, Hunkey Dory

T

T-dog

New member
I AM IN THE PROCESS OF PURCHASING A 1981 C-DORY ANGLER, HULL #8 WHICH IS LOCATED AT EQ-MARINE IN OAK HARBOR WASHINGTON. I DON'T THINK THIS BOAT HAS A NAME, ALTHOUGH IT DOES HAVE HUNKY DORY WRITTEN ON THE SIDE. THE QUESTIONS I HAVE FOR ALL THE C-DORY ENTHUSIASTS ARE:

1. AFTER A HULL SURVEY MULTIPLE PROBLEMS WERE DISCOVERED, DELAMINATION IN HULL BOTTOM, AREA OF "HIGH MOISTURE CONTENT" AS WELL AS AN AREA THAT HAD A BREACHED OUTER FIBERGLASS LAMINATE SECONDARY TO HIGH POINT LOADING, POSSIBLY CAUSED FROM BOAT SITTING ON A ROCK WHILE BEACHED. GIVEN THAT THE TRANSOM HAD ALREADY SUFFERED FROM A ROTTEN CORE SECONDARY TO WATER INTRUSION, (WAS REPAIRED) WOULD THIS BOAT BE WORTH 15K, GIVEN THE COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH FIBERGLASS REPAIR.

2. THE OTHER QUESTION INVOLVES THE SURVEY. I LIVE 10 HOURS AWAY FROM OAK HARBOR SO I RELIED UPON THE SALESMAN AT EQ-MARINE FOR A MARINE SURVEYOR REFERRAL. THE SURVEYOR GAVE ME A PHONE REPORT ON THE EXTENT OF DAMAGE/PROBLEMS WITH THE HULL BOTTOM AS WELL AS DISCUSSION ABOUT OBTAINING CORES TO EVALUATE THE FULL EXTENT OF MOISTURE MIGRATION AS WELL AS DELAMINATION OF HULL CORE. AFTER THIS DISCUSSION I ASKED THE SURVEYOR ABOUT BEING COMPENSATED FOR HIS TIME AND HE SAID, "THERE IS NO CHARGE." I ASKED WHY AND HE STATED, "THERE WAS NO SURVEY." I THANKED HIM FOR HIS GENEROSITY WITH HIS TIME AND GAVE IT NO FURTHER THOUGHT HOWEVER, LATER, AFTER REFLECTION ON THAT DISCUSSION, MY CURIOSITY PEAKED. PER MY AGREEMENT WITH THE EQ-MARINE SALESMAN, I WOULD BE BILLED $200.00 DOLLARS FOR THE SURVEY IF IT SHOWED NO HULL PROBLEMS AND THAT HE WOULD PAY THE $200.00 IF IT THE SURVEY WAS BAD.

THE QUESTION FOR THE C-BRATS IS WHY WOULD A SURVEYOR CONDUCT A SURVEY, PUTTING THE BOAT ON BLOCKS, UTILIZING MOISTURE METER AND HAMMER TESTING HULL, PROVIDING PHONE REPORT TO POTENTIAL PURCHASER AND THEN NOT BILL FOR TIME AND DENY A SURVEY WAS EVER DONE?

THE LAST QUESTION INVOLVES CORE SAMPLES. PER THE SALESMAN AT EQ-MARINE, THE OWNER OF THE BOAT IS GOING TO ALLOW "MINI" CORE SAMPLES TO BE TAKEN. WHAT IS A "MINI" CORE SAMPLE? PER MY RESEARCH CORE SAMPLES ARE ALWAYS AS SMALL AS POSSIBLE, YET LARGE ENOUGH TO EVALUATE THE HULL CORE AND LAMINATES.

I HAVE BEEN SAVING FOR THIS BOAT PURCHASE FOR QUITE SOME TIME AND CANNOT AFFORD TO GET IN OVER MY HEAD WITH HULL REPAIRS, HENCE MY REQUEST FOR ADVICE/GUIDANCE FROM PEOPLE THAT HAVE INTIMATE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT C-DORY BOATS.

THANK YOU,

T-DOG
 
T-dog - I don't know the particulars of the interaction but I do know Les personally and he's a straight shooting, honest guy who will not screw you over. So my suggestion is that you address all your questions directly to him. I know this goes against all that many of us have been trained to believe - e.g. "never trust the sales guy", but in this case, trust the sales guy. Have the core samples done, ask Les to get a quote that covers a complete repair etc. Les won't steer you wrong. He will attempt to make a reasonable profit from the boat but he won't screw you. In this particular situation, he's really your best resource. 'Nuff said.
(PS - why all CAPS? Makes it harder to read).
 
Rogerbum,

Thank you for the reply and for letting me know that "all caps" are difficult to read. In no way did I suggest the salesman at EQ-Marine was anything less than honest and I certainly did not imply that he was not a "straight-shooter." In fact, the salesman encouraged the survey to protect me, for which I am grateful. The intent of my post was to hopefully find someone who had owned a 1980's C-dory with similar problems/history that could give me advice on how to proceed. As far as the survey question, its just that, a question. You make a good point, contact the salesman at EQ-Marine and get my questions answered however, due to EQ-Marine's hours of operations the salesman is not reachable. I have discovered a late model 22' Cruiser that is almost three times the cost but in like new condition that I may pursue, depending upon insight attained from a 1980's C-dory boat owner. I am sure you know that when a nice boat at a decent price gets advertised its gone quick, hence the urgency in getting more information from a trusted/respected source such as the C-brats.
 
T-Dog - not to worry. I wasn't thinking that you were in any way suggesting that Les was dishonest etc. I'm just letting you know that he's exceptionally honest and since he has the boat at his immediate disposal (he's home is literally at the shop - upstairs) and since he knows more about these kinds of boats than most people on this site combined, he'd probably be the best guy to get you an estimate/advise you on what to do. I understand the shop has limited hours due to the (still) flagging economy. I've had very good luck getting in touch with Les via email - les@eqmarine.com . He usually response w/i a day and in email you can put in all the details etc. and you get a reply that's in writing.
 
I would guess that "there is no survey" because you have nothing in writing. The surveyor has no liability because he hasn't accepted funds for a service, nor has he provided a report on his letterhead.

I would imagine small core samples would be taking a 1/4" or smaller drill bit and drilling into the core from inside the boat to determine the core wood's condition. A knowledgable boat wright can tell a lot from such small smples and the condition of the material that comes out.

Large core samples would be taking a hole saw and drilling out a 1" or larger section of the hull. Much more invasive and expensive to repair. Not uncommon on large boats, as a 1" hole in a 40 footer isn't that big a deal.

So- a note about surveys.

Les has a great reputation on the forum, and in the industry, and I would trust his opinion and advice.

That being said, for most dealings on a boat purchase, the buyer should always be the one to pay for a survey. A survey should be an impartial evaluation of a vessel. If the seller pays for the survey, it is his survey, and he may be able to influence or otherwise dictate the findings listed in the report.

As a buyer, you want the surveyor working for you, not the seller. When we provide information on surveyors, we have a list that we can provide the customer of 3-4 surveyors in the local area. We always let the buyer pick the surveyor.

The problem with letting the broker pick the surveyor is that the broker may have a relationship with that surveyor, who may be inclined to "help" the broker sell the boat; in exchange the surveyor gets a constant stream of referrals from the broker.

It's not that the surveyor would lie to help with the sale, but he may feel obligated to the broker, and that may color how he views potential issues with the boat.

Likewise, accepting a "recent" survey that a buyer has had done on a boat may be problematic as well, as an insurance survey is more focused on placing a vlaue on a vessel as opposed to looking for deficiencies. It may be a good starting place, and might help with the decision to hire your own surveyor, but it may not be the final word in the condition of the boat.

The above is general information about surveys for those that are considering buying a boat, and is provided as a source of information. It is added to this post because of the discussion of surveys.

Again, Les has a good reputation, and I would certainly discuss concerns about this particular situation and boat with him and his employees.

Good luck!
 
Matt,

Thank you for the reply. Why would a surveyor not take responsibility for a survey he was hired to do after he did it? As I explained on my previous post, I have until close of business today to decide whether or not to pursue this boat or move on to something newer, the salesman is not reachable as his shop is now closed. I do appreciate your advice concerning surveys and will try to follow it in the future.
 
I would first ask myself "Do I want (have the time for) a project"

You seem to be comparing a virtually new boat to a project. If you can afford either, refer to the question.

I would stay away from unknowns.

Stefan
 
I don't have a dog in this deal , but if I bought that boat from Les , I would could sleep very well knowing that I did good. also I wished I had the bucks to buy #8, it is only one of two orginals I know of, and looks better than new.
 
To be fair - I've seen the boat and it doesn't look better than new. It looks fine for a boat of it's age and the transom is solid. I didn't look closely at the rest of the hull but did see the normal wear and tear (nick here or there).
 
Stefan,

I would agree with you however, I am up for a project boat that needs work, even if it is structural in nature and even if it involves complicated repairs although I am concerned that I will open up that boat to repair what is suppose to be isolated damage and find that the entire core in the bottom of boat is soaked, then what? Now I am stuck, as a person cannot justify investing thousands upon thousands of dollars in a 1981 boat or, in the worst case, strip the boat of its accessories....a sad ending to a long lived C-dory.
 
These are photos I took of two at Sitka, Alaska last summer.

This is number three and not in the best condition. Is still owned by the original buyer who works at the Marina and did his best to get us the best dock space available.
DSC00152.sized.jpg

And this I was told by the owner of #3 is the last Hunkydory made by Marble Marine.
DSC00148.sized.jpg

Jay
 
If you are seriously considering the EQ boat, why not invest in a trip up to EQ? You seem to be knowledgeable about boats. A good long face to face with Les and the boat will help you make the right decision, I would bet. All the best, and, whatever you decide, welcome to the C-Brats
 
Marty,

You are probably correct, that I should just bite the bullet and invest 20 hours of driving time to see the boat. My plan was to establish hull integrity via survey and then drive up for sea-trial and purchase, a process the salesman is supportive of. I have to consider the seller's point of view as well, he did come down in his asking price and now he is facing additional expenses to sell the boat or reducing the price of the boat further to cover the needed repairs. Ideally, the full scope of hull damage can be identified, a cost estimate from a reputable boat repair facility for the repairs will be obtained and the owner will adjust sales price accordingly.
 
T-dog - it would probably be cheaper (and definitely FASTER) to fly up. I'd even bet that a brat like myself would be willing to pick you up at the airport and take you to EQ (my schedule permitting - others might help out if our schedules don't match up). I wound up flying out to Baltimore to see my current boat. It was worth the trip.
 
T-Dog, there is a photo of that boat (Hull number eight, same Washington registration number on the hull) in the Chivita photo album back from the original Friday Harbor gathering. As I recall, we were impressed at how the owner was taking care of it at that time.

As to Les, my father who has built quite a few boats and spent a large amount of time on the water lives easily over a thousand miles from Les but thinks so much of him that my father bought a trailer from Les and hauled it back home instead of buying the same trailer from a dealer in his own state.

I'd speak with Les about your concerns, the only regret I have about buying my C-Dory was that I didn't buy it from Les!
 
We bought an '84 classic from Les last year. We kept it only one season because we were given the opportunity to semi-retire and subsequently developed a 'need' for a TC24. But in the short time we had the boat we enjoyed it very much. Les helped us rig the boat the way that we wanted and we found that not only is he a genius with boats but he is a very honest person who is very easy to work with.

Our '84 classic is now for sale on the other coast [where we bought the TC24] and is priced well above the price you are working with. In my opinion you could do a lot of work on the boat and still come out ahead with a great way to spend some time on the water. Of course, you would want to obtain some repair estimates, and Les would be able to help you there.
 
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