16 footers, a comparison. Angler vs Cruiser.

Sneaks

New member
OK, it's been 12 months since the Stents, the doc has given me back my launch privileges, I have the itch and I'm ready to scratch it, just not with a 22.

I'd like to learn the practical differences between the Angler 16 and the Cruiser 16. I've heard a Cruiser is heavy aft and harder to handle than the Angler. I've heard there is no lockable storage in the Cruiser but there is in the Angler. In other words, I've talked to an Angler owner not a Cruiser owner. :lol:

How 'bout it? If you are or were a 16 owner who made a conscious decision to select one model over the other, I'd like to learn why. OTOH, if hindsight says "I shoulda got the other model" I'd like to know that too.

Don
 
Hi Don,
As you know, we previously owned a 16' Cruiser. In answer to your questions I offer the following information....

Obviously, there is more protection from the elements with the cruiser as the cockpit is smaller on the angler and conversely the cabin larger on the cruiser. (Elements in Washington = rain and snow. Elements in San Diego = sun). With a cruiser you can actually sleep/lie down in the V-Berth. (Of course you know that your Washington Attny. Cousin sleeps on a mattress on the floor of his angler after removing the seats, but then he usually consumes a keg of his fine Snoqualmie Falls Beer prior to going to sleep so he doesn't mind/notice that type of hardship). Although, a cruiser does not have the locking cutty feature that the angler has for security, if you just carry one of those 50 Cals. that you can borrow from the coasties that you know, your would not worry about anyone ripping you off. (Seriously, I lowered the bulkhead curtain when I left the vessel unattended and had no problem, but naturally anyone could easily access the thousands of dollars that I would routinely leave lying around on the table of the cruiser in plain view of those walking past on the dock). Which brings me to the table.....yes the cruiser has a table that is non existent on the angler and provides a stable platform for your evening appetizer layout of cheese, crackers, wine and/or Snoqualmie Beer. With the helm closer to the stern on the cruiser than on the angler, then yes it is heavier aft than the cruiser. That problem can be easily remedied by stowing a couple of bikini clad ladies up in the v-berth of the cruiser on the now more comfortable bed and your vessel should then operate in a fairly level plane. And seriously..... you mentioned that the cruiser is "harder to handle than an angler"....sheesh anyone worried about difficulty in handling a 16' watercraft, shouldn't be out on the water! :mrgreen:

So all the above being said, the bikini clad babes in the v-berth option should make your decision a "no-brainer".....hope you like your new 16' CRUISER! :wink
 
Hey Don-Why don't you fly up here for a few days. You can try out my Cruiser and probably Pat & Patty's Angler and make your own informed decision. Glad to hear about your medical progress.
 
dotnmarty":17wnzfh1 said:
Hey Don-Why don't you fly up here for a few days. You can try out my Cruiser and probably Pat & Patty's Angler and make your own informed decision. Glad to hear about your medical progress.

I'd be there first flight if I could, Marty. Still in Elder Care mode. My first CBG was in 1976, again in 94 and then the dang stents last year. It's a miracle I haven't preceded mom (yet).

First on my bucket list is to get up there and visit Dusty and a very close quad friend. Second is to go to a gathering again - any gathering! Third is to park my RV next to DaNag's barn and taste his Folgers followed by a few days with my nephew, sampling his brew. Then we'll be following Thataway's trail. Hopefully with a C-16 in tow.

I like both the Cruiser and the Angler. Both can be rigged with Sunbrella cockpit covers and/or a Strataglass "door". My portable security system "Joey the Mini-schnauzer" works well in the RV, so there's no reason to believe he won't be effective in the boat. A fixed lockable something big enough to hold cameras and passports etc. is easy to add. Shifting the weight forward is a problem. Spouse won't allow Dave's solution and besides, septuagenarians don't attract attention like buff firemen do unless they starred in movies or are Senators.

C-Dorys age gracefully so my target years are 1993-2005. Beyond that, I think the C-Dory QC department was staffed by former BP employees. I'd have to get a real "incredu-deal" or a full survey to buy newer than 2005. Just my opinion of course.

I probably should have labeled this thread "C-16 wanted" but I'd rather get some good info from users of both models. Even a short day trip isn't enough to get more than a quick feel for the goods. There are Brats here who have owned 16's for decades and in all conditions. I'd rather mine for data there and besides, the info applies to anyone contemplating a C-16.

Don
 
Well said Don. I can only give you my opinion about the cruiser, as I've no real experience on an Angler. The cruiser has a slightly higher roof, which I guess is a good thing, but the extra height is just enough to keep it from fitting in our garage. The balance issue noted above is real, but easily solved by a Permatrim. The Permatrim, in my opinion, is almost invaluable on the 16 and not just to trim the bow down , but to greatly improve handling by holding the boat down. Whichever model you decide, I recommend electric wipers both port and starboard, especially on the cruiser where trhe port manual wiper is just out of reach from either seated position. Also, get a bow rail. It really helps make loading on the trailer single handed a snap. Finally , with a canine partner aboard, the dog would probably benefit from the cushioned cutty on the cruiser. Dotty and I had a 22 cruiser some years ago. We did love it, but, at this stage of the game we wouldn't trade the 16 for it . Good luck in your quest. It can't help but be successful, whichever you choose.
MartyP
 
I have only owned the 16 angler for a couple of months now and love it. I keep adding modifications to it as the weeks pass by. my only regret is not getting one with a 50HP. The 40 is ok, but I think the 50 will be optimum. I've gone to Catalina several times, it performed well. The 16 does get pushed around in the ocean. I have been on the back side of Catalina when the swell would crash over the windshield, I thought it was fun, my pops never let go of his life jacket. I find that I still have to add weight to the front of the boat to keep it balanced. With only 12 gallons of gas Im kinda of limited on how far I can go. The seating is comfortable. Sleeping overnight is pretty comfortable too, I just use a inflatable sleeping pad. However laying down while the boat is moving or being used for fishing won't be possible unless you want fish bait and saltwater over you. If I wasn't into fishing and lobster hoping I definitely would have gone with the cruiser. If you want to try it out we can do a boat swap for a weekend. I myself have been thinking of upgrading to the 22.
 
Don,

I've rode in a 16' Angler and owned a 16' Cruiser (Cachita) for several years. My wife & I really enjoyed the Cruiser. Cachita was pretty heavily loaded with a 50hp main, 6hp kicker and 12 gallon tank & swim step on the transom. We stowed all our gear as far forward as possible. The Cruiser was extremely easy to handle and a great little rig for whale watching. The extra cabin space and table made a lot of difference to us.

We really miss Cachita. We traded her in to move up to a 25' Cruiser. Love both boats, but only have room for one right now.

Good luck for whichever boat you choose.

Brian & Helen
 
DaveS":2n6wd9as said:
Obviously, there is more protection from the elements with the cruiser as the cockpit is smaller on the angler and conversely the cabin larger on the cruiser.

Don't think I agree with Dave about the cockpit on an angler being smaller than a cruiser. The v-berth takes up quite a bit of the length. Not sure about the cabin size but I do think the cockpit on an angler is definitely larger than the cruiser. If you want it mostly for fishing and not overnighting, the angler is the boat for you!

Sure am glad to hear you're thinking about another boat Don, great news! I want to get up and see Dusty too, probably be at SBS 11, think you can hold out that long and we can do it together? :wink:

Charlie
 
I fish on the cruiser and with a canvas tent back, sleep on board for one or two nights at sea. the difference is whether you're a lone wolf fisherman or want a buddy. The cruiser works for me as a single fisherman, not so much for two fisherman unless you're really good at coordinating with each other. Maybe the Angler model with more cockpit makes it easier for two to fish. Other than that, they handle the same.

C-Pup16 in Los Angeles
 
Captains Cat":oi1ceifi said:
DaveS":oi1ceifi said:
Obviously, there is more protection from the elements with the cruiser as the cockpit is smaller on the angler and conversely the cabin larger on the cruiser.

Don't think I agree with Dave about the cockpit on an angler being smaller than a cruiser. The v-berth takes up quite a bit of the length. Not sure about the cabin size but I do think the cockpit on an angler is definitely larger than the cruiser.
Charlie

Charilie, you caught me.....the sentence I wrote missed the word "than".

My sentence was intended to read.."Obviously, there is more protection from the elements with the cruiser as the cockpit is smaller "THAN" on the angler".

Thanks for catching my error and pointing it out.

So, in retrospect....Cruiser = smaller cockpit and larger cabin.
Angler = larger cockpit and smaller cabin.

Guess I should adhere to the KISS method and I'm not referring to the bikini babes on the cruisers v-berth. :wink
 
Lookin good. So far it appears Permatrims are mandatory on both models, 50 hp is adequate for all around use, and the biggest choice is whether a forward bunk is needed or not OR whether it will be used primarily for fishing or not. Cool.

Spousal unit immediately crashes when exposed to sea breezes and the alarm system I have requires a crash pad as well so I'm leaning toward the cruiser.

Thanks. So what range can one expect with 12 gallons of fuel assuming on plane and not WOT?

Don
 
Sneaks":2qjpso8l said:
Spousal unit immediately crashes when exposed to sea breeze Don

That is how it is in our family as well. Carol and J seem to spend a good deal of time on "snooze cruises" in the V-Berth. They never would have been happy on an angler.
 
I bought my 16 ft cruiser in 2003. I seem to get 5+ knots per gallon on my heavily loaded cruiser with a 50 HP Yami. The boat planes at 12 to 14 knots. I usually run it at 16 to 18 knots on flat or minor seas, 16 knots when cruising downhill with the wind to my back and following seas. When going far, I carry two six gallon cans, two 3.5 gallon cans and a 9 gallon can between the seats. The three gallon cans get drained first and when empty, get strapped to the roof or go under the v-berth. I can only carry this much gas when alone on the boat. Adding a second person would be too much weight on top of those gas cans. That means my friends only get to fish near home port.

I installed marine board shelves in the motor well on each side of the outboard. I have an 8 gal bait tank on the side of motor well with the swim step. A wood disk (sold at Home Depot for making a coffee tables) serves as the bait tank cover and a cutting board/fillet table or stand-up bar table. The bait tank can be removed, giving a swimmer a level step to enter or leave the boat, or to board a dingy.

A big cube ice chest is installed on the other side of the motor. The top of the ice chest has a drawer and cup holders. A hose lets melting ice drain overboard. I often use dry ice. I don't want that inside the boat when the tent back canvas buttons it down. Co2 from the dry ice could kill me in my sleep.

I bought a stainless, vertical three rod holder and knife and plyers holder from West Marine. It a storage holder. I put that on the outside of the motor well wall to store rods at night when I want to clear the v-berth of rods to sleep.The rods have to be outside the canvas which snaps to the transom above the rod holder.

I also installed adjustable Bennett trim tabs. There is some benefit from that, but the extra benefit is not worth the cost on such a small boat. The Yami engine has a nice tilt feature. With plastic wings on the outboard, adjusting the tilt keeps the bow down when you want to speed through low chop or minor swells. I use the tabs down most of the time because of the weight I carry in the stern, but not always. Sometimes I use one trim tab to balance the boat. Trim tabs in a down position (especially just one) cause my boat to swerve wildly in turns at a certain speed, around 9 - 12 knots, or given a certain swell angle. The inexperienced skipper will be shocked by that the first few times. The advantage of adjustable tabs is that you can eliminate that unintended consequence by raising the tabs when you don't need the tab feature. Fixed tabs stick you with the problem.

If you're a fisherman, trim tabs are a knife to cut your line when bringing a fish to the boat. Be sure to free spool if a fish makes a run at the gaff. I lost a beautiful yellowtail at the Isthmus when it did that and the tight line rubbed against a trim tab.

I see talk about moving weight forward to keep the bow down. That is dangerous in a following sea. You want the boat light in the bow and popping up like a cork when you slide down a swell and hit the wave in front of you.

I also keep the anchor in the cockpit and launch it over the side. (Of course, the line is run through the anchor pulpit. When I retrieve it, I power the boat forward and use a gaff or boat hook to grab the line and haul the anchor up from the cockpit. I also use a release line tied to the anchor and a buoy. I never go on the bow deck at sea to fool with the anchor. That's a fast ticket to a bad day or to the ocean's bottom. I have a roller on the side of the cockpit to prevent anchor line and chain abraision on the hull. Fortress makes a light aluminum anchor that takes away most of the weight of a steel anchor, relieving the pain of hauling in heavy iron by hand.

As some of the Catalina cruisers can tell you, my wife and I brought our two dogs one year. We all slept for a week in the v-berth of our 16 ft cruiser, one dog between Kimiko and me and one dog on top of me. Tight, and a little doggy in odor, but we had fun... at least once I got my unhappy dog to understand on the first night that he really had to share the v-berth and it wasn't all his. (That followed a half hour of his growling and snapping to tell us to leave him alone, while he comfortably curled up on top of our sleeping bags! I had to learn dog whisperer crisis negotiation !)

What else can I tell you about C-Pup... it has radar, dual Lowrance GPS/sonar units with two transducers, two batteries and a trickle charger, a Sears starter (jumper) battery, a Givens survival raft, a dingy, a Spot Me satellite communicator (which is a great safety idea!), a 406 MHz "PLB" (Personal Locator Beacon), a painting of a topless girl in the surf (actually a mouse pad from Avalon), a sail boat tether line, a down rigger, two gunnel rod holders and one transom rocket launcher, shade canvas and the tent enclosure, window privacy and shade covers, two anchors (one with chain) and a series of rollers for the anchor line to run along the side of the boat to the cockpit, a chum churner, a detachable bait cutting or fillet table that drains over the gunnel, a gas barbecue that slides into a rod holder, standard porta potty, windshield wipers, bow deck cowl vents, LED running lights on each side of the bow, a "cross" tower structure (I made it from PCV pipe) to hold a metal radio antenna and flag, a stereo, a breaker box in addition to the standard fuse box, bow rail flood lights, a cockpit flood light, and I probably forgot something from the list. When I was in the Coast Guard Auxiliary, it was inspected and approved to be a harbor patrol facility.

The cruiser is a sweet little boat for one guy to handle at sea and spend a few days living on board, anchoring up at night. I can easily launch and retrieve it from the trailer alone. I drive it off and on the trailer with the outboard, stepping on the spare tire to climb on or off the bow deck.

What would I do different? I hope to add wind shield washers someday so the wipers can clear off dried salt water. A hose sprayer over each window connected by tubing to a bottle of Windex sitting on the pilot's counter would work. I also want to move my running lights to the Radar tower for better visibility. The boat literally disappears between swells, it is so small. The vent cowls and trim tabs were probably money better left in the bank. Everything else I added offered a benefit that was worth the money and added ease or safety, making them worth while. Maybe the art work added nothing to safety, but it was worth while too!

I don't often check in here or post, so a follow-on answer may take a while.

If you own or buy a 16 ft cruiser, enjoy it but play it safe. RESPECT THE LIMITS OF A BOAT AND YOUR LIMITS AT SEAMANSHIP GIVEN WHAT THE SEA CAN POTENTIALLY TOSS AT YOU, NOT WHAT IT'S LIKE WHEN YOU DEPART ON A FINE DAY.

Keith
C-Pup16 ("Tiny But Tenatious")
 
I fish so for me an angler was definate. The larger cockpit is a necessity if fishing more than 1 guy. The boat handles great once you realize: It's a 16 footer, It's a C-Dory (so slow down) add a permatrim or similar planing device. It really helps you adjust your angle of attack appropriately. Bow up in a following sea, bow down in an on-coming sea. You will be able to fish in weather lessar designs could only dream about. As far as fuel consumption, I average 6-7 mpg with my 50 HP ETEC, This allows me a range of 40 miles out and back when I carry 3 6 gallon cans. I hope to add saddle tanks similar to the ons on Dave Tolands at some point to increase the range to over 150.
 
keith, you filled in a ton of grey areas with that post. Very helpful, but I really have to wonder how you manage to spend a week at Catalina inside that 16 footer along with spouse, dawgs, and all that "stuff!" It's clear to me that our personal needs would be better filled by a cruiser. What a post to mine! Whew. When you say heavy, I believe you.

Don
 
Anything you install on a boat loses value but still, should add a little to resale value and market appeal when you want to plug that hole in the ocean your money has been pouring into. Not so much on a small boat. People buy small to be cheap. Few people have the special need I have to fit my boat in a car garage. (My home is on a hill, so no side yard or driveway to park a 22ft CD.)

Understand that bigger is better for ocean use.
 
C-Pup16 in Los Angeles":2rhnw1qi said:
People buy small to be cheap.
Understand that bigger is better for ocean use.

I would agree in general that people buy small to be cheap. Of course I don't think you're referring to C-Dory owners and prospective buyers though, because they are way more likely to do what you did, Keith; Buy to fill a specific need plus buy into the C-Dory style and ride. I can go on Craigs list and buy any number of used 16-23 ft. boats with motor and trailer for well under $5000 that would fill 80% of my *needs" but they ain't C-Dorys.

Like oceanfront property, the C-Dory carries with it the "J" factor as in "Jesus, it's a C-Dory". That's what kicks the value up IMHO. But I totally agree with you that bigger is better offshore.

In my case, offshore days are essentially over except for the calmest days. Bay, yes. RV'ing yes. Shallow water yes. Exploring rivers and lakes, yes. There is one decision remaining. An inflatable that will allow one to tow a "toad" vehicle, or a 16 ft. C-Dory that will allow me to explore more territory but require an RV trip to the market for even a loaf of bread. Decisions decisions. :lol:
 
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