05/18 - 05/19 - Friday Harbor Gathering

Tom,

Thank you for your inquiry regarding us on planing to trailer from Kalama on the Columbia or to cruise up from there to attend the Friday Harbor CB gathering...

At this time we seek your recommendation as we are not sure what would be the most scenic and safest rout?

Heinz & Diane
 
Hi Heinz & Diane.

Welcome. I would strongly recommend you trailer up from the Columbia rather than cruising. Cruising would involve crossing the Columbia Bar, one of the most dangerous in the world, and hundreds of miles of open ocean with few safe harbors, think cruising from San Francisco to Long Beach. Then you would have to turn around and do it again to get back. It is about 250 miles from Portland via I5 and SR 20 to Anacortes, WA which is where I would recommend you launch your boats. It is an easy run to Friday Harbor from there, less than 2hrs. You should be able to link up with other brats making the trip. There is a good ramp and parking is safe. Patti and I look forward to seeing you and your friends at Friday harbor.
 
Barry, Heniz is planning to cruise from the S.F. area to the the Columbia river. Stopping and hitting all the ports along the way ( the few that are there) . So after doing that cruising the rest of the way should not be anymore difficult. I say with a laugh and uneasy smile because its could be a very difficult trip. I would love to hear more on the planing from Heniz. Maybe in its own thread??

As I think about it, its a very doable trip. The longest run ( I have not looked at a map yet) can't be over 60 miles? As long as the weather is good and you use caution it should be ok. I would not even consider living port unless coast guard states the next bar I have to cross is going to be open for at least 6 hours after I am due to arrive. I would want to hear from the gentleman from the bay area that took his 25 from SF to southern cal. Can't think of his name right now.

So I have no off shore boating experience but it does seem to me that if you can run 60 miles off shore to fish and then return to the same port there is no reason not to run 60 miles to another port?? Its all a matter of weather. which will tell you whether you should go or not. anyone know how to move this to its own thread??
 
colobear,

Thank you very much for your advise...

As you may know we are new to cruising and we are not from Washington and therefore truly appreciate your advise. We will follow your recommendation and trailer up to Anacortes.

Diane and I are very exited about this gathering and looking forward to see all of you.

Heinz & Diane
 
Tom,

We have change our plans to separate the S.F. to Columbia trip from the Friday Harbor trip as it seem to be to big of a challenge for us at this time to combine both. (the wife got scared) (':embarrased')

Heinz
 
starcrafttom":3dq68ga2 said:
So I have no off shore boating experience but it does seem to me that if you can run 60 miles off shore to fish and then return to the same port there is no reason not to run 60 miles to another port?? Its all a matter of weather. which will tell you whether you should go or not. anyone know how to move this to its own thread??

I've only done this trip once (Neah Bay to San Diego) and it was going south and in a sailboat, so not exactly comparable. We didn't have the ability to go over 6 knots and so of course didn't plan with planing speed in mind (on the other hand, our vessel was set up to be at sea). But what I would imagine is that you would want to have a lot of time and no schedule. Because I think it would be hard to count on a succession of back-to-back weather windows. Even in our boat, we probably waited more for weather windows along the WA/OR/NoCal coast than anywhere else. We did run into one fellow in a converted PNW fishboat of about 28' - of course that was also displacement. He was retired and had all the time in the world to wait for the next good weather window (he was looking for calm seas as much as possible to make things comfortable).

For me it's not a route that brings the words "scenic/safe/pleasant" immediately to mind. Not that it couldn't be if you only went during great weather windows, but just speaking in general as compared to other places.
 
Well, Sunbeam, you did it…
Now I am totally discouraged to take my C-Dory on saltwater. I might as well sell my C-Dory, get some wheels and pick up mountain biking… :smileo

However, I may not have to since I am retired and have time to wait for better weather though. After all I am very safety conscious. :wink

It had intended to cruise along the coast from CA to WA to get some exposure to saltwater cruising in preparation for my ambitious plan to take the inside passage in the late spring, early summer of 2014. One of my big dreams…

We will talk some more in person when we meet at Friday Harbor in May…

Heinz
 
Lighthouse Express":3qhvi4x2 said:
Well, Sunbeam, you did it…
Now I am totally discouraged to take my C-Dory on saltwater. I might as well sell my C-Dory, get some wheels and pick up mountain biking… :smileo

Well I hope you are kidding! I didn't mean to discourage you at all, but it sounded like you were asking, and although I'm not a local, I found that to be one of the more challenging stretches of water to boat on. Each stretch can be a piece of cake at times, but taken as a whole it's not the easiest trip.

Lighthouse Express":3qhvi4x2 said:
It had intended to cruise along the coast from CA to WA to get some exposure to saltwater cruising in preparation for my ambitious plan to take the inside passage in the late spring, early summer of 2014. One of my big dreams…

The Inside Passage is fantastic, and your C-Dory will be great there :thup So even if you don't "practice" on the Pacific coast, don't count it out! I don't want to say the Inside Passage is "easy," because it certainly calls for respect and seamanship, but I would say it's a less "harsh" environment than doing the Pacific coast between Washington and SF Bay, in terms of an overall trip. They are sort of opposite in character, to my mind (but I'm not local to either place, so don't take what I say as gospel)

When I was on the Inside Passage (years ago), I was on a slow boat with an open cockpit. It was an especially cold and wet summer, and I remember huddling at the tiller, shivering in damp foulies. Then I'd look over and see people glide by in their enclosed-pilothouse trawlers, sipping coffee in their shirtsleeves. Oh, did that look fabulous! So that will be you :D

Sunbeam
 
Heinz,

I've spent a good bit of time off the coast of Washington in both a CD-22 and in my Tomcat. I wouldn't think about doing a long trip along our coast until about mid-July. Between mid July and mid September, you can often find good weather/seas off our coast and sometimes for many days in a row. In August, I'd estimate 3-4 days out of 5 are calm enough for C-dory travel especially in the early AM through noon +/- 2 hours. Since the sunrise is early then, that's at least 6 hours of good traveling time. In June, the coastal waters are nice more like 40% of the time and in May it's more like 25-30% of the time. Also when it's not "nice", it's not nice in a much worse way early in the season. 10+ seas are not at all uncommon off our coast in May but 6-8 are more typical.

While I'm not super familiar with the N. California coast, a quick perusal of the map suggests that there would be a few long runs between fuel stops. Once you're outside of the San Fran bay, Bodega bay is not too far. However, after that, it looks like Fort Bragg would be the next possible stop and that's about 120miles. Even in "nice" water off the coast up here, you'd be hard pressed to make better than 16kt's going N, W or NW in a CD 25 (of course it all depends on how calm the seas are but in my experience in a 22, it was the rare day in August when I could open up the throttle going any direction other than east (with the small swells/waves at my back). Winds from the NW are not uncommon. So to cross a 120 miles at 16kts is probably a full 8-10 hour day by the time you eat and take the occasional stop to look at sea life or have a potty break. After Fort Brag, it looks like another 100 or so mile run to Eureka after which the ports get a bit closer together.

Many of the ports along the way are upstream of rivers just a bit and that typically means crossing a bar. When the tide is coming in and there's a good outflow on the river, this can lead to nasty conditions to cross the bar (especially in certain wind conditions). As a result some ports may only be accessible at near slack tide. On the right days, that's not a big deal and you can plan for it or wait for the near slack tide periods. On days where the weather goes bad, making a decision to cross a bar or to hold out in bad weather can be a difficult one and that's what gets a lot of people in trouble - especially for people on a schedule.

For planning when I'm willing to take my boat offshore, I use this web site - http://forecasts.surfingmagazine.com/ . It provides wind and swell predictions for 6-7 day out from the current day. To properly use this site, you need to select the area of interest and then look at the 3 separate maps that show wind, swell height and swell period. At the top of the map you can select which of the 3 pieces of data you wish to see. At the bottom of the map, you can select the date and time in 6 hour intervals. The 1-2 day predictions are pretty accurate, the 3-4day predictions are OK and the 5-7's are not so accurate. However, if there is a 3 day window in which conditions are predicted to be nice all three days, I can generally count on the middle of those three days to be good.

To make good use of these predictions, you have to develop a sense of what the seas will look like for various conditions. Swell height, swell period and winds all affect sea state. There's a few good rules of thumb that can give you a sense of whether the ocean will be OK. First if the swell period in seconds is 3 or more greater than the swell height in feet, it's generally manageable for swells <6-8'. For larger swells, I want to see greater differences in [period(s) - height(f)].

In low wind conditions: I have had my CD-22 in 10-12' swells that had a 18-20s period with not much wind and it was quite manageable going slow (6-8kts) perpendicular to or into the swells and I could average 12kts with them at my back (being careful to not go too fast down the front side of a swell and stuff the bow into the next one). Going into such swells I probably only made about 5-6kts. So those were OK to fish in but not so great for making distance. 3-4' swells with 6-8s periods I could do about 6-10kts going into them or perpendicular to them and 16-20kts with them at my back. 3-4' swells with 10s+ periods things start to feel pretty much like a calm lake (in light winds) and I could travel pretty much at any speed I like. On the other hand, 4' swells at a 4-5s period can be quite nasty and feel a bit like being in a washing machine.

Winds <10kts didn't generate enough wind waves to cause problems. 15kts creates enough chop to slow me down a little and 20-25kts creates wind waves that would keep my 22 traveling in the 5-12kt speed range depending on other conditions.

In the Tomcat, I can travel much faster and deal with higher winds/worse swell conditions than I ever could in the 22 but I generally use the same guidelines as I used in my 22. For me, swells bigger than 4' need to have a period thats in the 8-10s range or higher before the ocean feel calm enough to make the day enjoyable. Sure I can (and have) traveled and fished in worse conditions but at some point it's more work than fun. I like winds <15kts but will go out in 20kts when the swells are low/long period. 25kts it's time to stay in port or get into port as it likely won't be fun. My recommendation is that you try a few trips just outside the bay when the winds are light and the swells are <4' so that you can start to get a sense of what the ocean feels like at different combinations of wind, swell height and swell period. Once you start to have a mental picture of what the numbers translate into in terms of your own eyes (and you and your wife's stomachs), then you'll be in a better position to plan longer trips off shore.

Also, as Sunbeam points out, the Inside Passage is actually fairly protected for much of the way so it's usually a lot easier to handle than the coastal waters. On the Inside Passage, there are only a few stretches where you're exposed to open ocean. In particular, the brief run from Port Hardy north requires a good weather window. Much of the rest of the trip, you're in waters where the wind fetch is less than a few miles and unless the wind is from the S or SE (parallel to many of the channels), the waves don't build very high. That's not to say that the weather can't be nasty in the Inside Passage but rather to say that the weather has to be fairly nasty locally to generate bad boating conditions. In contrast, on the ocean, the long fetch means that bad weather 1000+ miles away can generate nasty local conditions.

If you want to get practice for an Inside Passage trip, I'd suggest that you start by cruising Puget Sound from say Olympia to Friday Harbor. The conditions in the sound are more similar to what you would encounter on an Inside Passage trip with the exception of more civilization and lower tidal exchanges. After I tried that, I'd take a cruise or two along the east side of Vancouver island and check out some of the fjords on the mainland side. The conditions there are even closer to what you will see on the inside passage and the amount of civilization drops as you head north or run up the fjords. Then I'd plan for the longer Inside passage trip.

After saying all of the above, I don't want to discourage you from going into the ocean in your 25. It's very doable in the right weather. I know multiple C-Brats who have traveled plenty in the Puget Sound or the Strait of Juan de Fuca that are afraid to go out into the ocean. I also know that many of them have been in nastier conditions in the Strait of Juan de Fuca than what they would encounter on a typical August day on the ocean. In fact the Strait is usually worse than the ocean in August as it tends to funnel wind. Yet, these particular brats are afraid of the ocean. It's mostly because they haven't done it so the unknown is scary to them. Once you do it a few times it get's less scary. Once you've done dozens of times, you get some decent understanding of what the swell/wind numbers mean in practice and once you've done it a 100+ times you get to where you're not worried about it. Not because you're over confident but because you've been over confident a few times before and now know enough to not put yourself out in the ocean when conditions have a good chance of turning on you. E.g. you keep a healthy level of fear but you manage the risk appropriately. So I say give it a try. Stick you're toe in the water so to speak. However, planning a trip from SF to the Friday Harbor on the water for your first big ocean cruise is more like jumping in the deep end than sticking your toe in the water. So start out with shorter trips and build up to it.
 
I'm coming up with an alternate plan so that I may be able to do some cruising with some C-Brats after the Friday Harbor gathering. On Wednesday the 22nd I plan on launching in Anacortes and heading out in chase of any folks that may still be in the area. I also plan on cruising back down the sound
later the following week. I will read back through the discussion to glean out information on other's plans.

Robbi
 
Heintz,

Roger's comments are spot on, and Sunbeam too. THe open Pacific Coast is a different body of water than our inland "Salish Sea" water. I am one of those who have not had my boat out on the open ocean --> fear maybe, but major respect FOR SURE!!! I want to, and will at some point, but until then, learning from Roger and others (Sunbeam for one) who have done it along the way first will help.

On the other hand, I put my boat into salt water on a regular basis. Almost every time I go out, I am in the Strait of Juan de Fuca, and it can be like glass or like a washing machine. Some say "You pay your money and you take your chances". I think that is a pretty scary way to approach cruising. I prefer "respect, learn, try, learn and never loose the respect." You will live longer on the water and be much more comfortable.

Would I consider a trip up or down the coast. Yes. With the right motives, with the right equipment, with the right weather and without a schedule. IT is doable. IT would certainly be different scenery than the inside passage. Open ocean, 360 water horizon would be different. If you are looking for scienery then you really need to do some PNW cruising. Looking at your trip from SF to Friday Harbor you could boat from as far south as Olympia and come up the Puget Sound, crossing from Port Townsenf to Cattle Pass or go north behind (east) of Whidby Island getting in lots of boat time in generally, relativily protected waters. MIght be worth a look. (Careful though, thast is all salt water :lol: :shock:

Heintz, We met at the Friday eve dinner/talk night before the boat show. We talked about following waves and other things. Looking forword to seeing you at FH.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
I'm feeling a lot better since my pacemaker surgery (although I still am dealing with the separate issue of spinal stenosis (i.e., arthritis)) and for once the CBGT doesn't conflict with other planned activities (I will be going on the train to Portland for DrupalCon Monday morning, though).

So, a roundabout way of saying that I am looking forward to getting back into the swing of things with the Brats!

Warren, currently camped in Loreto, on the beautiful Sea of Cortez. Next winter with the 22!

P.S. I've been posting details of the Baja trip on Facebook, if anyone is interested.
 
Warren, Good to hear we can look forward to seeing you around this summer. Enjoy the warm and travel safe.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Thank you very much to all of you for your incredible advice…

Let’s face it, there is just no book out there that one could buy to get that kind of valuable information you have been providing me and others with.
Your unconditional willingness to give advice to fellow C-Brats is above and beyond. That is what makes the C-Brats stand out from any other boating group.

I have met some of you already, great personalities, and was very impressed with your experiences and passion for boating. You guys are obviously light-years ahead of me, as I am new (very green) to cruising.

Sorry, I did not mean to steal the thread as it was meant for the Friday Harbor gathering.

We don’t mind to trailer our boat from California to Washington as Diane and I are really looking forward to see everyone again and perhaps meet new C-Brats.

Heinz & Diane
 
Well, things are moving along for the May 17-18-19 2013 Friday Harbor gathering. I'm looking in the attic to find my weather dance shoes. We have 21 boats signed up thus far so it should be a good time as usual. We also have a commitment from Teddy the wonder dog that he and his assistant will be there and...drum roll please...Jim Bathhurst has agreed to again provide the musical entertainment; there is a catch though..we have to feed him this time! Downriggers is on-board and looking forward to seeing us, the Port of Friday Harbor is already expecting us. They have always been generous giving us quite a break on moorage and I think they will do so again. I'll have more moorage information as we get closer. Kathleen, the manager at West Marine is also planning to host us for donuts with a discount on Saturday morning. I spoke with Ryan Binning, one of the Triton owners at the Seattle boat show and I think there is a good chance we will see some factory representation there. So, everything seems just fine.

Now, on another Friday Harbor topic. This will be the fifth year Patti and I have hosted the gathering and it is time to pass it on to someone else. We have really enjoyed it, it is surprisingly little work, everything is in place. We spend not more than a day or so getting things set up. The gathering tip jar has covered the expenses and all of the brats are so very helpful. But, as I said,this will be our last year as hosts. Patti has put together a good primer on what we do and we will be happy to pass that on. So if you want the gathering to continue, somebody has to step up to the plate.
 
Friday Harbor is coming up. Heinz & Diane, if you want to trailer up to Sequim, I will be happy to cross the Strait of Juan with you. (We have to leave early in the morning.) I will have company this trip. My sister and brother in law are coming up for the weekend. They are staying in the village and joining for the daytime Brat stuff.

Looking forward to it.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon
 
hardee,

We are delighted to accept your offer for accompanying us with the crossing of the Strait of Juan. :D
There is a chance that one of our friends will also come should they get their brand new Ranger Tug 25 in time from the factory.

I'll PM you with our contact information...

Heinz & Diane
 
From Barry "Colobear's" last post...
Now, on another Friday Harbor topic. This will be the fifth year Patti and I have hosted the gathering and it is time to pass it on to someone else. We have really enjoyed it, it is surprisingly little work, everything is in place. We spend not more than a day or so getting things set up. The gathering tip jar has covered the expenses and all of the brats are so very helpful. But, as I said,this will be our last year as hosts. Patti has put together a good primer on what we do and we will be happy to pass that on. So if you want the gathering to continue, somebody has to step up to the plate.

I - maybe we (depending on if my wife Tanya plays along!!) - can attempt to follow in Barry & Patti's large footsteps (large as in impressively run not as in foot size) in assuming the future hosting of the Friday Harbor Gathering.

I sent Barry a PM expressing a bit of trepidation about taking over since we are coming across the Straits of Juan de Fuca (normally from the Port Townsend area) and the weather gods do not always cooperate in spite of Barry's past weather dance attempts (I cannot dance worth a darn).

Anyway, Barry stated that he did not believe this would be much of an issue but suggested to me I put it out as an offer to the rest of the C-Brat community that if somebody - preferably someone coming from the east side of the pond (who would be transiting thru the normally more protected San Juan Islands) - would care to co-host / be co-conspirators / back us up / or assist in any manner in hosting the FH CBGT, just in case we had problems making the crossing, their assistance would be welcomed.

Long live the Friday Harbor CBGT!!!

Take care,
Dan, Tanya, and Hannah on C-Renity
 
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