2009 Honda 5 HP as kicker for 16 Cruiser

NORO LIM · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:49 pm Post subject:

I just checked on the "classic" versus "new" Honda 8hp 4-stroke. According to information on Les' EQMarine website, there are in fact two different engines. So perhaps I had what is now the "updated" older model. At any rate it was a good engine, and the older engine cover style definitely fit into the space next to the main engine, and allowed turning without interference when the engines were uncoupled. I guess the lesson continues to be, do your research and check fit carefully.

Wandering Sagebrush · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Honda 8

cdlas · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:09 am Post subject: 5 hp Honda

I would get an 8 hp as it idles smoother. Try them both and maybe look at other makes.

lloyds · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:48 pm Post subject:

I have a 2 hp and it really vibrates. I doubt if the 5 is much better. Better to find a twin. If I was doing it I would look at a yamaha as they get generally the best reviews for that size. But there are a lot of the old evinrude twin 2 cycles around in 4 hp. Those engines, although 2 cycle, were extremely quiet, smooth, and really light. They were also 2 cylinder. I have been thinking about looking for one. They usually sell for under $400 and at that cost you don't need to get a lot of use out of them for the money. I had one years ago and it was a super motor. The one benefit of the Honda 5 is you can get one with a small alternator.

wannabeowner2 · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject:

OK, here's what I'm thinking of doing:

1. Asking the dealer what the heck a 12 V anchor winch is doing anyway mounted on the stern.

2. If they'll pull it then I'll get a short shaft 5 HP Tohatsu and mount it myself. 1135.00 vs 1780.00 plus the reviews are universally positive. I'll try to go without the bracket as many have suggested. (I can live with the non-matching color.)

IF I wind up with the elusive 22 will I still be able to use the short shaft Tohatsu?

Thanks for all the help.

Steve

PS Or if I decide to go with a 8 HP how much trouble would I get into going 3 HP over the "limit" on the transom?

bjidzik · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:49 pm Post subject:

I've got a Suzuki 50HP main & 6HP kicker. I like the Suzuki 6 as it has an internal fuel tank. Honda only offers a 2hp with an internal fuel tank, but nothing bigger. I've had no performance issues with either Honda or Suzuki outboards.

I had a local C-Dory dealer install a Garelek mount for my kicker to keep it clear of the water while underway. Image below.

Les Lampman · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject:

Hi Steve,

I'll try to remember (challenge) and address your questions and some of those of other folks here. Please keep in mind I'm just relating what I've learned over quite a lot of years and not trying to say that someone else's choices were "bad".

Fist of all, I'd forgo the Honda BF5. That engine is ready (and has been for the last 10 years) a total revamp. I've had problems with the bottom of the oil pan (which is the lower half of the engine case on this engine) being eaten through from salt buildup under the powerhead (obviously when used in saltwater applications). The Tohatsu/Nissan/Mecury 4, 5, or 6 would be a better choice in my opinion.

There are essentially 4 engine makers available in this size range: Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and Tohatsu. The other engines (Johnson, Mecury) are just rebranded so there aren't that many choices.

All the 6-hp and below engines are single cylinder with the exception of the Yamaha 6 (twin) which is a detuned Yamaha 8 (sharing its same weight and size). None of them are particularly smooth; at least not as smooth as a twin.

Honda has made the BF8A since the early 1980's; earlier it was blue & white and called the BF75 and BF100. In 2001 Honda brought out the new "D" models (with the more rounded hoods) in an 8hp version and a 9.9hp version and dropped the BF8A model...for a year. The dealers (and customers) made such a fuss that Honda re-introduced the BF8A a year later as the BF8 "Classic". Thus, we have two differnet 8hp engines now. They essentially share no parts and are completley different. The basic BF8A weighs in around 78 pounds versus the BF8D at 92 pounds (manual start).

The BF8A is the heaviest engine I'd willing put on the transom of a CD16 at 80 pounds. I have seen an old Honda BF9.9A (105 pounds) on the back of one and it didn't sink but I sure didn't like it.

The horsepower rating is a non-issue; the placard is for the main engine, not the kicker.

We've never used a mount for the kicker motors on the CD16 and always just installed them right on the transom. I don't however see an issue with using a motor board (the black (usually) molded motor mount used on the up-and-down brackets) bolted directly to the transom. That sets the kicker back about 1.5" and raises it slightly. It's not expensive or ugly.

I don't know what prep your dealer is doing for the kind of money you mentioned on the kicker. We usually install them free if the kicker is purchased from us. We would charge for the motor board, which I recall is somewere in the $60 ballpark. Even an hours labor would only run another $75.

Hope this helps you out!

Les

Matt Gurnsey · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:59 pm Post subject:

You will need a long shaft engine (20") for the kicker. The short shaft will not be in the water enough.

C-Nile · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:44 pm Post subject:

Hello,
If you would permit, I would like to offer my opinion on a kicker for the CD 16 Cruiser. On C-Nile, I use a 4 HP, 4 Stroke, short-shaft Yamaha mounted on a Garelic kicker bracket. This Yamaha motor was the lightest 4-stroke, 4 HP motor in the world in 2007; it weighs only 48 pounds. The kicker bracket keeps the motor well out of the water when not in use. When I push the bracket down, it is well below the keel, but if I'm in very shallow water, leaving the kicker bracket up -- the bracket acts like a jack plate. Last year I got stuck in very shallow water, and got out with the kicker! As for speed, if I were to put a 6 HP motor on the transom, I doubt it would have much affect, because when one has insufficient horsepower to bring a boat onto plane, one really can't go much faster than hull speed. Also, I find that there is a miniscule difference in speed between full throttle on the kicker motor, and 1/4 throttle. It's hard to judge speed, but in my measurements with a GPS, I got between 4.8 and 5 MPH at full throttle. The nice thing about the Yamaha, is that it has an internal tank that gives you 40 minutes of run time, and also has an external tank option. As for placement, I put it on the port side in order to help offset my weight with my sitting on the starboard side. I had big problems with my main motor last year (fortunately it was just a wiring harness -- should have paid attention to Weifing's tech advice), which resulted in using my kicker to get back home 4 times! (The 5th time, I was too far way for the kicker and needed SeaTow.) I'll never have a boat without a kicker again. Lastly, to steer the boat with the kicker, I use the main engine as a rudder. It's not going to make quick turns, but it works. On the negative side of a kicker on the C-Dory 16, there are some things to be aware of:
1) The CD-16 stern does not take kindly to excessive weight. It can get stern heavy. It's manageable with the lesser weight of the Yamaha.
2) Even at 1/4 throttle, and even though the Yamaha 4HP is very quiet, we find the noise to be irritating -- it sort of permeates into the cabinet. My main motor (Suzuki), however, is whisper quiet under 7 knots.
3) Subjectively speaking, I think my mileage has dropped due to the extra drag of the stern weight. It would be interesting if others in the group concur with this observation.

Hope this helps,

Rich Cool

Stephen Williams · Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:08 am Post subject:

May I ask another question on this topic? Has anyone ever put a custom alum fuel tank under the forward berth at the bow? I'm looking to add a kicker and have appreciated this thread greatly, but after listing all the possibilities of a 4, 5, 6, or 8 HP from each of the 4 main producers, one still has to deal with the stern weight concern of the 16' C-Dory.

Are there problems with this idea? I believe you could mount a very large tank, but would not have to fill it all the way unless you were in need of a great amount of fuel for a special trip. Yes, might want to have a blower to exhaust any fumes and a monitor also, I guess.

Any thoughts?? Steve

rjmcnabb · Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:08 pm Post subject: mounting a kicker

I'm in the throes of deciding how to mount a kicker -- direct vs. jack plate. I'm worried, too, about damage to the transom (crushing the balsa core, etc.) for the direct mount. Since this thread is three years old now, does anyone have an update on their experiences with a direct mount?
Thanks,
Rod

Sunbeam · Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: mounting a kicker

jep111 · Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:04 pm Post subject:

C-Nile · Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:22 pm Post subject:

I agree with John about the gas tank for the reasons he stated. What we did on our CD 16 for several years was to place 3.5 gallon portable gas tanks under the pilot and copilot seats. This really helped to redistribute weight, while giving us a total of 20 gallons of fuel on board (that gave us a 180 mile range.) In addition, we had a 50 pound kicker on the stern, which after 3 years we removed -- replacing it with an electric trolling motor. My thought at the time was that we only needed the trolling motor to get us out of trouble, or bring us those last few yards into our slip, with full reliance on SeaTow for emergency assistance. Reducing weight on the stern and distributing the weight evenly resulted in our achieving an approximate 20 percent gain in fuel economy. It was amazing. Additionally, one could imagine how much more quickly our CD 16 Cruiser got onto plane when the weight was properly distributed.

rich

rjmcnabb · Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject: kicker mounting

Thanks, Sunbeam.
I understand the mounting process you described, but you make it sound so straight-forward that a lot of my apprehension about drilling holes in a boat -- even above the waterline -- have evaporated. Thanks, again.
(My philosophy always has been: never drill holes in a perfectly good boat because "you need to," and never jump out of a perfectly good aeroplane "in the name of sport." I may have to rethink half of that.)
Rod